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Thread: Senator Mike Green, and NRA backed MCRGO, propose partial OC Ban

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Senator Mike Green, and NRA backed MCRGO, propose partial OC Ban

    State Senator Mike Green, and NRA backed MCRGO are joining forces to try to partially ban open carry. It hasn’t been introduced to committee yet, but it is drafted and reported to be making it to committee imminently.

    http://mcrgo.org/doc/sb0442.pdf

    I know this is just another post on the internet, but for the love of your God or lack thereof, this is important. Send an email, make a call, make so much noise your reps can't help but listen.
    Unless you hate rights. But I assume you wouldn't be here then.

    Word is he is going to pull out all the stops/up-sleeve aces/tricks/etc.
    In the meantime, we are already ready to try to stop him from several years ago when we campaigned against SB59. A few tweaks, and our pre written material is ready. Take action by clicking here and spending a few minutes.

    Note that this pre written material contains both pro and anti gun views so that you can recruit the help of ANY politically inclined person you know. Feel free to modify them as necessary.

    EDIT: Files are too large to attach. Get them HERE.
    Last edited by Evil Creamsicle; 07-06-2015 at 09:00 PM. Reason: Link to Material

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    State Senator Mike Green, and NRA backed MCRGO are joining forces to try to partially ban open carry. It hasn’t been introduced to committee yet, but it is drafted and reported to be making it to committee imminently.
    Just when I was thinking I MIGHT join NRA again

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    It appears that the NRA/MCRGO/Senator Green are all pushing this bill? If that's correct? The people of MI need to raise hell! Just my honest opinion. Listen to the NRAs & MCRGO lawyer talk about this bill in a recent radio interview. Pay close attention to the terms & %'s he uses when speaking of OC.

    Show titled 'Attorney Steve Dulan, Independence day' good show, interview starts after the half hour mark.

    http://atoddsshow.com
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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    PS - the At Odds show is a great place to not only pick up news about what's going on in MI, but national news too, with a pro civil rights / pro gun rights flavor.

    I highly recommend this show to fellow citizen patriots.
    :thumbsup:
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Here's his website & contact info:

    http://www.statesenatormikegreen.com/contact-me/
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    And for those of you who like to place phone calls

    (517) 373-1777

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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    The good is that the bill gets rid of CPL boards and instructs the county clerks to issue CPLs like they issue marriage licenses.
    Plus there are provisions for getting an expedited 'emergency CPL'.
    Still not fond of a 'six month waiting period' to establish residence before being allowed a CPL.

    The bad: No OC in a PFZ, need a special Exemption Indorsement (why do lawyers have to use the old British spelling?) to CC in a PFZ.
    So, the common CPL or LEO loses his ability to OC in a PFZ without gaining anything other than the ability to ask for an exemption.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I do believe you're thinking of sb59. Gun boards are already going away.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    I do believe you're thinking of sb59. Gun boards are already going away.
    I thought we'd already done away with gun boards, but there's a lot of county clerk permit issuance language in 0442.

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taxman View Post
    I thought we'd already done away with gun boards, but there's a lot of county clerk permit issuance language in 0442.
    Issuing the exemption not a CPL. The exemption is supposed to be shall issue. The Bill as it is not won't be the one the Gov vetoes however.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    Kind of Jumping the Gun aren't we.

    This is a bill that elminates the Gun Boards, transfers that authority to the County Clerk, and provides an Exemption that would permit a CPL holder to carry CONCEALED on school property. I'll grant that I didn't look beyond page 34 because I was getting cross eyed with all that legaleze but this bill seems to be correcting some rather antiquated institutions and provides a path for someone with a CPL to gain an exemption permitting them to carry concealed at School Functions.

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    Once again, the only thing the government is doing is trying to punish and hammer down the law abiding public. Its them trying to bury their heads in the sand and NOT deal with the fallout from the pending cases.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter123 View Post
    This is a bill that elminates the Gun Boards, transfers that authority to the County Clerk, and provides an Exemption that would permit a CPL holder to carry CONCEALED on school property. I'll grant that I didn't look beyond page 34 because I was getting cross eyed with all that legaleze but this bill seems to be correcting some rather antiquated institutions and provides a path for someone with a CPL to gain an exemption permitting them to carry concealed at School Functions.
    See my exchange with Raggs and Michigander immediately above. I was wrong, and you're falling into the same trap I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSchaine View Post
    Once again, the only thing the government is doing is trying to punish and hammer down the law abiding public. Its them trying to bury their heads in the sand and NOT deal with the fallout from the pending cases.
    Yep, if we let this pass, it moots all the pending lawsuits against illegal school board actions. The good news is that Mrs Snyder-Bloomberg will never sign it, as it provides an avenue towards CC in schools.

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    Agreed. What we really need to do is find a way to keep this state from being run by Detroit and GR.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
    -Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratification Convention, June 5, 1788

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSchaine View Post
    Agreed. What we really need to do is find a way to keep this state from being run by Detroit and GR.
    ...or, in this case, the Peoples' Republik of Ann Arbor.

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    I read the entire text of the proposed bill last night. Opposed...opposed and opposed!

    It is a whole lot of unnecessary legalese and just adds crap and distortion to an already verbose statute.

    The simple and Constitutionally correct thing to so is to just eliminate gun free zones altogether and be done with the insanity.

    For that matter, let's go Constitutional Carry and along the way eliminate pistol registration plus decriminalize loaded car carry sans CPL.

    What is Senator Green drinking? Why on earth does he think creating more convoluted statutes is the way to restore gun rights? Can someone clue him in on the simple concept that less is better?

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    Ok just sent my letter to Senator Green:

    "Dear Senator Green and staff,

    I am writing in opposition to SB0442 for reasons discussed below. Further, I suggest a better approach to eliminating dangerous pistol free zones.

    First, I oppose SB0442 because it would criminalize lawful open carry in PFZs. Why infringe on a Right in the name of compromise? Besides Gov. Snyder would certainly veto SB0442 unless schools were allowed to opt-out (an opt-out amendment would defeat any logical benefit of SB0442). I know you wouldn't favor the opt-out but the fact remains that SB0442 would most likely be vetoed anyway.

    Why not leave open carry alone and just eliminate pistol free zones for concealed carry holders? Then, even if there was an opt-out amendment for schools, law-abiding citizens would still have the option to open carry as they have the legal right to do now. Maybe Snyder would even sign the bill (since he says we wants the opt-out). Just take open carry off the table from the start, thank you!

    Frankly, I don't know why Michigan is so far behind the times these days in efforts to restore 2nd Amendment rights to its citizens. Have you considered eliminating pistol registration and removing the restrictions on loaded vehicle carry? How about Constitutional Carry?

    There is so much to do to advance our rights, yet you are proposing trading one right away in the name of compromise. There is no need to compromise on our fundamental rights. Stop thinking in terms of weakness and recognize that the grass roots movement to restore our Constitution is strong, gaining momentum and is here to stay. I think that your resignation to 'compromise' is a relic of earlier times. I hope that you re-calibrate somewhat (and please stop listening to the NRA as they too are mentally stuck in an earlier by-gone era. Either that or they don't like freedom . . . as peaceful open carry truly represents).

    Once again, I urge you to drop SB0442 and consider just flat-out eliminating pistol free zones entirely without sacrificing open carry.

    By the way, I have two children and am deeply concerned for their safety.

    Thank you!"
    Last edited by OC4me; 07-13-2015 at 01:52 PM.

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    See my exchange with Raggs and Michigander immediately above. I was wrong, and you're falling into the same trap I did.

    Yep, if we let this pass, it moots all the pending lawsuits against illegal school board actions. The good news is that Mrs Snyder-Bloomberg will never sign it, as it provides an avenue towards CC in schools.
    Agreed, this is one of the most convoluted garbage bills I have ever suffered to read.

    They are dangling a carrot in front of our noses thinking eliminating gun boards will cause us to support this type of nonsense.

    Why would this bill negate the pending lawsuits? Since the boards actually did commit an illegal act at the time. If they legalize recreational marijuana usage in the Nov election does that mean anyone convicted and jailed for possession will be let free? I think not. Although high dollar lawyers can interpret the law in any way that benefits their clients.
    "God created man, Sam Colt made them equal."

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    The good news - many have figured out that this is a junk crappy bill.

    Add even better news: a constitutional carry (group of bills) have been released!

    Now the bad - Tricky Ricky Snyder, is bought & paid for by Bloomberg money! The chances of the majority in both houses (R), over riding his veto, should the bills make it to his desk? Slim to none.
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    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    The good news - many have figured out that this is a junk crappy bill.

    Add even better news: a constitutional carry (group of bills) have been released!

    Now the bad - Tricky Ricky Snyder, is bought & paid for by Bloomberg money! The chances of the majority in both houses (R), over riding his veto, should the bills make it to his desk? Slim to none.
    I've been calling him Mrs Snyder-Bloomberg for over a year now, since he politically married Mikey for his money and ordered legislative leaders not to let any gun bills come to a vote before the 2014 elections.

    Since all the other RINOs in the state spent the rest of 2014 proving they care more about Snyder-Bloomingidiot than they care about Michigan, I say to Hell with the entire Repugnant Party.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck125 View Post
    If someone were to get that exemption just as an added level of precaution (like OC with a CPL), would you still be able to OC in the PFZ's if they choose?
    No the bill would remove the ability to OC in PFZs. The bill has since changed again and Green is making this gun control bill even worse by changing the ability to OC in places that have a liquor license. His gun control bill also has penalties for OC in those place with a tiered approach all the way to a 5 year felony. This is Michigan gun rights rep who spoke at the 2A march, and then preceded to go on media rounds on tv demonizing open carry, talking about how it makes people fearful, and how its the PFZ exemption is a loophole and on and on. This is specifically why I stopped getting involved with certain things including gun rights orgs who supported the same gun control bill SB 59.

    It's hard to find a gun rights org in Michigan that stands up for the constitution and the bill of rights consistently. If it's not 100% it's not good enough in my opinion.
    Last edited by mikestilly; 07-17-2015 at 02:51 PM.

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    After finishing reading the rest of the posts and reading some of the bill I went to edit my post and somehow ended up deleting it. But I agree now. The bill is nothing but crap. Mikestilly, you're correct. How can you only support certain aspects of it? Either you're 100% for it or against it.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    As I understand it, changes will be made to this bill. Specifically, all of subsection (9) will ostensibly be removed and subsection (8) amended on page 37. This will get rid of the "shall not intentionally display or openly carry a pistol" language that would have created a situation where open carry in the concealed pistol free zones listed in MCL 28.425o would have been made illegal
    If these changes, and only these changes are made, this makes THIS bill much more acceptable. However....

    As I understand it, there will be an additional bill submitted that will attempt to
    amend MCL 750.234d and MCL 750.237a. This bill, not yet submitted would attempt to require that the exception given to concealed pistol license holders in the aforementioned areas requires that the firearm be concealed. This is where open carriers need to fight. I certainly hope that they don't tie bar the bills together.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 07-17-2015 at 04:20 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    As I understand it, changes will be made to this bill. Specifically, all of subsection (9) will ostensibly be removed and subsection (8) amended on page 37. This will get rid of the "shall not intentionally display or openly carry a pistol" language that would have created a situation where open carry in the concealed pistol free zones listed in MCL 28.425o would have been made illegal
    If these changes, and only these changes are made, this makes THIS bill much more acceptable. However....

    As I understand it, there will be an additional bill submitted that will attempt to
    amend MCL 750.234d and MCL 750.237a. This bill, not yet submitted would attempt to require that the exception given to concealed pistol license holders in the aforementioned areas requires that the firearm be concealed. This is where open carriers need to fight. I certainly hope that they don't tie bar the bills together.
    ^^^
    Spot on Doc!

    :thumbsup:
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    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    The contitutional carry bills mentioned earlier I'll attach here, and create a separate post for.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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