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Thread: U.S. LawShield?

  1. #1
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    U.S. LawShield?

    https://www.uslawshield.com

    Is anyone familiar with this group? Looks like they're opening memberships in MO now.

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    I joined up with them here in Missouri at a Springfield meeting back in September I believe. At the time they were going to publish a booklet that had Missouri law in it, they promised that within two months I have not seen that yet and I have contacted them. They have always responded to any of my calls.


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    That might be understandable. As fluid and uncertain as some Missouri laws have been since September, it might well be impossible to nail some of the jello onto the wall!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FriarJoe View Post
    That might be understandable. As fluid and uncertain as some Missouri laws have been since September, it might well be impossible to nail some of the jello onto the wall!
    I don't disagree with that. I will renew with them in September....

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    IMHO they are not what the purport to be, but you need to make your own decision(s).
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 07-08-2015 at 09:19 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    IMHO they are not what the purport to be, but you need to make your own decision(s).
    Is there something you could share that makes you think that way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    IMHO they are not what the purport to be, but you need to make your own decision(s).
    Why do you say that? I don't have a lot experience with them. I'm curious.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Please read:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...Legal-Services

    Particularly post #13, then post #26 for further thoughts.

    User (screen name) is Dan Hawes my go to guy and eminent gun rights attorney in Virginia.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network, Inc.

    People I respect seem to have a high regard for the Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network, Inc.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org You might check them out.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    I have reviewed a number of these so called defence policies. I personally would not purchase one of them. They all sound good, but the devil is in the details. Go find a good local attorney that will fight for your rights.

    How many cases have you read about where a person who actually was charged was a true self defence case? One or two out of hundreds. thousands. How many BGs are shot during an encounter? Slim to none.

    Most gun charges that face law abiding citizens don't involve BGs. It involves trespass, disorderly conduct or some rogue cop's claim that you violated a bogus law. The insurance does not cover these kinds of charges.

    Life is a gamble. We buy insurance for a legitimate coverage. My question to the insurer is your product regulated by the state? If not I would be leery.

    JMHO

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Please read:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...Legal-Services

    Particularly post #13, then post #26 for further thoughts.

    User (screen name) is Dan Hawes my go to guy and eminent gun rights attorney in Virginia.
    Thanks for the post...

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    I have reviewed a number of these so called defence policies. I personally would not purchase one of them. They all sound good, but the devil is in the details. Go find a good local attorney that will fight for your rights.

    How many cases have you read about where a person who actually was charged was a true self defence case? One or two out of hundreds. thousands. How many BGs are shot during an encounter? Slim to none.

    Most gun charges that face law abiding citizens don't involve BGs. It involves trespass, disorderly conduct or some rogue cop's claim that you violated a bogus law. The insurance does not cover these kinds of charges.

    Life is a gamble. We buy insurance for a legitimate coverage. My question to the insurer is your product regulated by the state? If not I would be leery.

    JMHO
    winning with self representation is all but impossible, the judges don't like it because of some reason and the AG I swear is buddies with all attorneys in the area and requires you to have one just to make a plea deal or get a deferred charge.

    I SHOULD have won in court versus a LIDAR speeding ticket because I was in a group of cars and the officer could not verify his accuracy, judge still slapped me with it even though he deliberated with an "eeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhh" for about a whole two minutes before doing so.

    we are not SUPPOSE to be charged unless we are beyond all reasonable doubt, him tossing it around in his head showed doubt due to the facts, case should have been dismissed, but it is easier to say "guilty" try to get you to pay to appeal, and just generate MORE revenue for the county in the process.

    the whole process is corrupt in my opinion, as you are guilty until proven innocent, rather then the drafted intention of innocent until proven guilty.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    winning with self representation is all but impossible, the judges don't like it because of some reason and the AG I swear is buddies with all attorneys in the area and requires you to have one just to make a plea deal or get a deferred charge.

    I SHOULD have won in court versus a LIDAR speeding ticket because I was in a group of cars and the officer could not verify his accuracy, judge still slapped me with it even though he deliberated with an "eeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhh" for about a whole two minutes before doing so.

    we are not SUPPOSE to be charged unless we are beyond all reasonable doubt, him tossing it around in his head showed doubt due to the facts, case should have been dismissed, but it is easier to say "guilty" try to get you to pay to appeal, and just generate MORE revenue for the county in the process.

    the whole process is corrupt in my opinion, as you are guilty until proven innocent, rather then the drafted intention of innocent until proven guilty.
    In some states, it is enough to challenge the calibration/testing of the radar unit. Frequently the certification must be done by the chief mechanic, not attested to by a regular shop mechanic. I have asked to speak to the officer and told him what I wanted - the officer requested that it be nolle prossed rather than allow others to hear my defense. I walked, shouldn't have been ticketed anyway.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grape his is talking about LIDAR not Radar LIDAR is a laser measuring device not a radar device

    It is very easy to pick out and track the speed of a single car in a group with a LIDAR unit compared with a radar unit.

    Both units given a properly trained officer are accurate and are reliable speed measuring devices.

    Errors both equipment and human caused are possible but a properly trained officer should recognize them and disregard them.

    Both units should be checked for proper operation before and after each stop. Calibration is not something a field officer would do.
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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    I have reviewed a number of these so called defence policies. I personally would not purchase one of them. They all sound good, but the devil is in the details. Go find a good local attorney that will fight for your rights.

    How many cases have you read about where a person who actually was charged was a true self defence case? One or two out of hundreds. thousands. How many BGs are shot during an encounter? Slim to none.

    Most gun charges that face law abiding citizens don't involve BGs. It involves trespass, disorderly conduct or some rogue cop's claim that you violated a bogus law. The insurance does not cover these kinds of charges.

    Life is a gamble. We buy insurance for a legitimate coverage. My question to the insurer is your product regulated by the state? If not I would be leery.

    JMHO
    Very well stated.

    Most of these companies provide liability coverage; something that all Homeowners/renters policies do...which means duplicity...plus they are generally secondary over a H/O or Renters policy...or at least those I've read, and only provide a grant/loan for criminal action. But you are correct, the devil is in the details. These 'policies' are generally grants/loans etc. One cannot purchase criminal insurance. Then there is a question if these are loans/grants to pay for the legal fees; then later 'forgiven', one may be exposed to taxes.
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    Very well stated. ...which means duplicity...
    OUTSTANDING, if perhaps unintentional, punishing double entendre!
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Grape his is talking about LIDAR not Radar LIDAR is a laser measuring device not a radar device

    It is very easy to pick out and track the speed of a single car in a group with a LIDAR unit compared with a radar unit.

    Both units given a properly trained officer are accurate and are reliable speed measuring devices.

    Errors both equipment and human caused are possible but a properly trained officer should recognize them and disregard them.

    Both units should be checked for proper operation before and after each stop. Calibration is not something a field officer would do.
    either way, if you can't compare it to a sidearm for verifiable accuracy, you cannot state you are accurate as it uses an invisible beam ( infrared) , and if you are not accurate, verifiably, how can you claim the car you pulled over was actually speeding?

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    Yep devil in details...they say they will represent you when it is clear you acted in a legal/legitimate manner.....
    If that is the case you likely won't ever be charged. The only thing it might protect you against is a liberal gun hating district attorney that doesn't mind hurting his win rate. (Cause he will lose if you acted in a legal manner)

    Save those pennies in your own defense fund. Do talk to a criminal defense layer in your area and get a business card. Call him if you are ever booked/charged. And use the money you saved up in you rainy day/defense fund.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    either way, if you can't compare it to a sidearm for verifiable accuracy, you cannot state you are accurate as it uses an invisible beam ( infrared) , and if you are not accurate, verifiably, how can you claim the car you pulled over was actually speeding?
    The science on how wide a laser beam from a given lens at a certain distance is well proven the unit I normal used if I remember correctly was an 18 inches at 300 yards. Its been five years sense I use one.

    There is a procure to make sure the device is aiming properly and should be check before one uses it.

    It also had a red dot like aiming site and a tone to let you know if one was receiving back good reading. If you were receiving a broken signal back one would not get a reading.



    If you never use one I don't believe that you well ever be convince of their accuracy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    The science on how wide a laser beam from a given lens at a certain distance is well proven the unit I normal used if I remember correctly was an 18 inches at 300 yards. Its been five years sense I use one.

    There is a procure to make sure the device is aiming properly and should be check before one uses it.

    It also had a red dot like aiming site and a tone to let you know if one was receiving back good reading. If you were receiving a broken signal back one would not get a reading.



    If you never use one I don't believe that you well ever be convince of their accuracy.
    I think your missing the point. there is no ACTUAL tag/marker, just cause it was verified accurate earlier doesn't mean getting tossed around in the squad car didn't upset the accuracy later.

    and without an actual tag/marker, directly tied to the IR beam, your right I cannot be convinced of it's accuracy.

    also the brochure sure doesn't mention anything about repetitive accuracy in all conditions, mostly just a bunch of hoopla about how the PD will be making a lot more money.

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    Post Self Defense Support: The Buyer's Guide

    YMMV:

    Post Self Defense Support: The Buyer's Guide



    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    Very well stated.

    Most of these companies provide liability coverage; something that all Homeowners/renters policies do...which means duplicity...plus they are generally secondary over a H/O or Renters policy...or at least those I've read, and only provide a grant/loan for criminal action. But you are correct, the devil is in the details. These 'policies' are generally grants/loans etc. One cannot purchase criminal insurance. Then there is a question if these are loans/grants to pay for the legal fees; then later 'forgiven', one may be exposed to taxes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    The science on how wide a laser beam from a given lens at a certain distance is well proven the unit I normal used if I remember correctly was an 18 inches at 300 yards. Its been five years sense I use one.

    There is a procure to make sure the device is aiming properly and should be check before one uses it.

    It also had a red dot like aiming site and a tone to let you know if one was receiving back good reading. If you were receiving a broken signal back one would not get a reading.



    If you never use one I don't believe that you well ever be convince of their accuracy.
    just something I was thinking about the other day when I asked the officer about calibration in the court all those years back, they stated they used a telephone pole.. but upon further thought into it I figured, well how do you verify your hitting the pole? do you use IR imaging to verify accuracy of the laser? what if it is off by 1 centimeter at 100yards? how far off is it at say.. 300 yards or even 200 yards?

    you mentioned the beam spread over distance is minimal, but it is still present, how much does the beam spread from the origin point @ 100 yards? you could then extrapolate it to 200 or 300 yards and also factor that in with any possible inaccuracies. it would essentially look like two overlying triangles, showing inaccuracy of the beam direction over distance, combined with inaccuracy cause by potential beam spread.. and I won't get into wavelength function based on relative humidity, or by prismatic effects of air caused by rising heat from the asphalt..
    Last edited by Ezek; 08-08-2015 at 10:18 AM.

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