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Thread: A crack in the "police can ask anything they want" paradigm?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    A crack in the "police can ask anything they want" paradigm?


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    In Wisconsin the predicate to the "request" is "with lawful authority."
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Well, here, they can ask whatever they want, just like anyone else. And, just as if I were talking to anyone else, my standard answer is, "I prefer not to chat about such things, thank you.", and walk away.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Regular Member nemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Well, here, they can ask whatever they want, just like anyone else. And, just as if I were talking to anyone else, my standard answer is, "I prefer not to chat about such things, thank you.", and walk away.
    How about: "I do not consent to this conversation. You are free to go."

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Well, here, they can ask whatever they want, just like anyone else...
    This law is recognizing that most people are intimidated into answering unnecessary questions when they come from badges.
    Last edited by MAC702; 07-22-2015 at 11:50 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    From the OCDO link provided in the op.
    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Officer safety is a valid concern. The problem is that officer paranoia is not. The best thing we can do to promote officer safety is to give them training in situational awareness. I think every cop ought to be required to take the NRA Personal Protection Outside the Home course. When cops take away a gun without a valid reason to believe that the person is a present threat, well, in Virginia, that's grand larceny (but only if the gun and whatever magazine and ammo is in it is worth more than five bucks) and robbery. They can and should be sued for that kind of tortious activity.
    Sued for grand larceny and robbery? Are cops exempt from criminal violations while on the clock?

    A cop can ask you anything he wants, uninvited, and your refusal to participate will land you in hot water.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    [ ... ] Are cops exempt from criminal violations while on the clock? [ ... ]
    Not exempt, but immune, called qualified immunity. Pierce the qualification, but it seems almost impenetrable.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Well, here, they can ask whatever they want, just like anyone else. And, just as if I were talking to anyone else, my standard answer is, "I prefer not to chat about such things, thank you.", and walk away.
    good answer USER, I am sure you assumed asking, " Am I being detained", and "am I free to go". If not I will not talk till I call USER, Or his ilk
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    good answer USER, I am sure you assumed asking, " Am I being detained", and "am I free to go". If not I will not talk till I call USER, Or his ilk
    I figure they'll tell me if I'm not free to leave, at which point I submit to arrest and say, "I want my lawyer.", and practice KYBMS.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    I figure they'll tell me if I'm not free to leave, at which point I submit to arrest and say, "I want my lawyer.", and practice KYBMS.
    In your earlier post you said you would say you prefer not to chat and walk away.

    I'm not so sure that's such a good idea anymore. While a distinguished looking fella your age might be able to do that confident he'll only be told to stay, we've already got reports on this forum of police being deliberately deceptive, telling an OCer he wasn't being detained, but then telling the OCer he wasn't free to leave.

    The last thing I'm going to do is give a cop an excuse to lay hands on me, and maybe prone me out. It is plain some cops have moved in the direction of seeming to make an encounter consensual in order to lull the detainee into talking, strengthening the cop's 4A position that even though he had reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS) for a detention, the target divulged the information consensually. Lets face it, when was the last time anybody heard a cop announce at the outset that he was detaining somebody? It has been in the cop's interest to keep the issue foggy at the outset. Deliberately pretending a consensual encounter when he considers he has RAS is only a tiny refinement. No way I'm going to risk being proned-out by walking away.

    I favor much more the tactic of telling the police at the outset, "No offense, officer. I know you're just doing your job. But, I do not consent to an encounter with you." A federal judge in (MD?) recently advocated that very tactic in his/her dissent after I'd been recommending it for a few years now. By refusing consent to the encounter itself at the outset, I put the 4A legal ball back in the cop's court. Now, he must play that ball. He either has to let me go, or commit to a detention. The next words out of his mouth tell me all I need to know. If he says anything other than "have a nice day, sir", then I just assume I am detained.
    Last edited by Citizen; 07-24-2015 at 09:29 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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  11. #11
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Least we forget, CITIZEN. It will also be your word against the automatic believed LEO. He/she can and will say anything to make their case.
    You either need lots of good witnesses, and/or a good recorder
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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