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Arrested for photographing in Henrico

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
OK, the steak's in your corner. FOIA the video (as soon as it's no longer restricted because of ongoing [strike]persecution[/strike] prosecution.

No crotch shot, I'll go to your favorite steak place and not only pay for your hert'ds desire but sit there and watch to make sure you eat everything on your plate.

OTOH, if there is a crotch shot you can send me a gift card to either Krispy Kreem or Dunkin Donuts.

stay safe.

I like your thinking. Now how about getting a good 50 OCers if not more all with cameras? Oh and some AR-15s wouldnt hurt either. Show of force with the militia on standby. Of course being responsible gun owners the idea is also to avoid someone getting shot. Just a show of force to let the local police know kidnapping and assault is not tolerated. Oh and I actually called the police. Do I get a cookie Grape? :p
 

Liberty-or-Death

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
411
Location
23235
Snake 6: Welcome to the forum. I've been monitoring this story on reddit and YouTube. I seriously hope those officers both get to ride a desk for a while and are retrained on the Bill of Rights, especially the 4th and 5th amendments.
 

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
I think this activism could become very expensive. Some LEOs are fighting back at vloggers. One is even suing a Mechanicsville activist. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/1...tate-trooper-sues-blogger-over-online-claims/

Non-starter. I've not seen the video due to a terrible connection but if it actually shows the crime then it's a slam dunk and the officer in question will get a slapping in court. Plus you have the 'little' issue of the 1st Amendment
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
I can't see how that her claims that a cell phone could be a weapon will wash. She was clearly trying to keep him from recording. I doubt she has a snowball's chance in hell of collecting anything, and the state will end up paying out another settlement. I am amazed that a state trooper is so friggin stupid.
 

The Truth

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Henrico
Both Cop Block and Virginia Cop Block have picked up this story. This video is very incriminating for Henrico County and I'm disappointed about it. Can't wait to hear what the cops give as their reasonable suspicion that a crime was being committed, much less their probable cause that you did commit a crime. Obstruction? Classic go-to-charge just to hassle you and remove you from the premises, proving a point. I'll bet no matter the outcome of your case, no one will do what you did again, especially OCing. They win either way and if you get a settlement the tax payers lose.

I've got plenty of questions, but I'll save them until after you've gotten the legal matter sorted.

My guess is this will be one of those "ignorance of the law" situations where the cop will likely claim that he believed what you were doing was illegal. It's hard to guess the officer's level of intelligence because he doesn't say much, but he seemed to at least keep a level head so he's not full on neanderthal.

You posted a link to the AG's opinion in 2002. It's absolutely perfect.

"Section 18.2-460(A) provides:
If any person without just cause knowingly obstructs a … law enforcement officer in the performance of his duties as such or fails or refuses without just cause to cease such obstruction when requested to do so by such … law-enforcement officer, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. In interpreting a former statute involving the obstruction of an officer performing his duty, the Supreme Court of Virginia has distinguished that which constitutes "obstruction": [T]here is a broad distinction between avoidance and resistance or obstruction.… "To constitute obstruction of an officer in the performance of his duty, it is not necessary that there be an actual or technical assault upon the officer, but there must be acts clearly indicating an intention on the part of the accused to
prevent the officer from performing his duty, as to ‘obstruct’ ordinarily implies opposition or resistance by direct action.… It means to obstruct the officer himself not merely to oppose or impede the process with which the officer is armed."[2] Additionally, the Supreme Court held that an attempt to escape the custody of an officer by running away does not provide a basis for a conviction for obstruction under the former statute.3 The Court of Appeals of Virginia has held that "obstruction of justice does not occur when a person fails to cooperate fully with an officer or when the person’s conduct merely renders the officer’s task more difficult but does not impede or prevent the officer from performing that task."4

http://www.ag.virginia.gov/Opinions and Legal Resources/opinions/2002opns/02-082.pdf

Looking forward to seeing where this goes.
 

Lafayette

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
69
Location
Central VA
I was of the understanding that the courts have ruled that if you want to exercise your Fifth Amendment right to not self incriminate that you must articulate that specifically, am I wrong?

It's stupid that you have to but you should do it if it will protect you.
 

The Truth

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Henrico
I was of the understanding that the courts have ruled that if you want to exercise your Fifth Amendment right to not self incriminate that you must articulate that specifically, am I wrong?

It's stupid that you have to but you should do it if it will protect you.

He did, but not until after he walked away and knew he was being arrested.
 

Lafayette

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
69
Location
Central VA
He did, but not until after he walked away and knew he was being arrested.

Ah that explains it, it didn't play the full way through the first time.

That should get thrown out of court pretty quickly, they admit that he wasn't being detained at that time he was being asked for ID and therefore he wasn't obliged to give them anything. He was free to leave and started to leave. Pretty open and shut case.

You know one thing that really bothers me? When LEO's ask a person if they lawyer or where they got their law degree from when a person dares to assert their rights yet courts consistently rule that a reasonable person should know their rights with relation to police and give them a lot of leeway, ie when a person feels that they are not free to leave and can invoke their fifth amendment right.
 

Liberty-or-Death

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Virginia is not a "failure to ID" state. If on foot, your only obligation to ID yourself is once arrested, not once detained.
 

Citizen

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Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Virginia is not a "failure to ID" state. If on foot, your only obligation to ID yourself is once arrested, not once detained.

Just to add a little additional info.

We've had a cop tell us that when issuing a citation for a Class 1 or 2 misdemeanor, if the accused refuses to provide an identity document, the cop will assume the accused is refusing so he can give a false name and evade the court date. According to that cop, there is a VA statute that requires a cop to issue a citation/summons instead of arrest for misdemeanors. But! the statute also has some exceptions according to the officer. For example, if a person cannot stop committing the offense, e.g. a streaker caught six blocks from his clothes. According to the cop, one of the exceptions that would allow arrest instead of summons is if the cop reasonably believes the accused will dodge the court date. Thus, the identity document refusal is interpreted as wanting to give a false name in order to dodge the court date.
 

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
If you are being cited/issued a summons, that is an arrest by definition, and you must properly ID yourself.
Define "properly" please.
Do you mean identify oneself according to the Supreme Court in Hiibel, or do you mean to provide a license to perform a licensed activity even if not performing said activity?
 
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Lafayette

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
69
Location
Central VA
If you are being cited/issued a summons, that is an arrest by definition, and you must properly ID yourself.

Isn't that only if the arrest in itself is lawful? In the case of an unlawful arrest the officer is seen as an aggressor and the arrestee has the right to use self defense to resist so long as the force used is reasonable. That might include not identifying themselves and resisting any attempt to force them to do so or to take them into custody?
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
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Oct 16, 2007
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Valhalla
This is going to prove interesting. First for Skids steak dinner, you can't FOIA for information, etc....involved with a criminal investigation.
There is no stop and I'D law in virginia. Common law requires you to state your name and home if challanged AFTER DARK. But no requirment to show papers.

Since the Feds were sued by the ACLU in 2010, they can't stop photographing, which is why they called Henrico.
Lots of great stuff to watch.

The trooper suing the blogger has had one suit dismissed and this one will be too. We need to push to have her fired.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
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Valhalla
I like your thinking. Now how about getting a good 50 OCers if not more all with cameras? Oh and some AR-15s wouldnt hurt either. Show of force with the militia on standby. Of course being responsible gun owners the idea is also to avoid someone getting shot. Just a show of force to let the local police know kidnapping and assault is not tolerated. Oh and I actually called the police. Do I get a cookie Grape? :p

Maybe that's how you do things in WA, but it certainly is not how we do things here in VA.

We do shows of force in the halls of government and the courtrooms, not in the streets.

That does not mean we do not gather together in groups. It means that our way of educating the public about the legality of OC and that OCing is not a threat to their safety or sanity is to do normal, everyday things while OCing.

Standing around watching a bunch of folks photograph something while pretending to be providing tactical overwatch, especially when we know that nobody is going to unlimber their AR-15 and threaten to shoot any cop that shows up, is - well, shall we just leave it at "less than smart"?

I see even suggesting such as being inflammatory.

stay safe.
 

peter nap

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Joined
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Maybe that's how you do things in WA, but it certainly is not how we do things here in VA.

We do shows of force in the halls of government and the courtrooms, not in the streets.

That does not mean we do not gather together in groups. It means that our way of educating the public about the legality of OC and that OCing is not a threat to their safety or sanity is to do normal, everyday things while OCing.

Standing around watching a bunch of folks photograph something while pretending to be providing tactical overwatch, especially when we know that nobody is going to unlimber their AR-15 and threaten to shoot any cop that shows up, is - well, shall we just leave it at "less than smart"?

I see even suggesting such as being inflammatory.

stay safe.

Damn I'm glad you responded Skid. I may have said something rude like that was the most stupid fu#/£,/ idea I'd heard for months.
 

The Truth

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
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Henrico
Not to mention we all practice the safe carry of a properly holstered handgun, so I don't think setting up a perimeter would be very effective in our case. I'm pretty sure Henrico could outgun 10 dudes with pistols anyway :p
 
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