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Thread: Trolling....why open carry?

  1. #1
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    Trolling....why open carry?

    The title is a bit of a joke, with maybe a bit of a truth.

    BTW, this might be a long read.

    The fact is, I am anti-open carry, I just want to be honest about that. I read the rules and it seems like it's ok for me to still post here.

    Just to be clear, in my opinion, I'm not trying to cause trouble or disrupt the board. I'm just wanting intelligent conversation on the topic.

    Because this is my first post, and kind of a heavy one, I think I'll start out with a bit of background about me. I am a gun owner, I consider myself pro 2a...but likely a lot of you will disagree. I come from a mostly liberal Jewish family. My mother is very liberal, the "I would never vote Republican type". My dad is more independent, he will vote either way. My dad was a gun owner during my childhood, he taught me how to shoot. My mom wasn't thrilled, but accepted it (mostly). Guns weren't a huge part of daily life, dad owned guns, they were locked up. They came out when we went target shooting, which was maybe 5-10 times a year. There were no real discussions about gun ownership, gun rights, etc. It was basically like having a hammer, mostly put in it's proper place, taken out for use, put back for the next time it was needed. No real reason to talk about it, if you get what I'm saying.

    When I turned 18, I bought my first gun (Ruger 10-22), and really enjoyed it, started going to gun shows, collecting old guns, getting on forums..getting tossed off of forums. Basically I'm saying I became somewhat "active" in the gun community/culture.

    Ok, enough with the intro.

    Lately I've come across a number of youtube videos of people open carrying, particular rifles, and getting stopped by police, causing a rigamarole, one ended up in a year long legal battle, found guilty, and is currently appealing the decision.

    Basically, why open carry?

    It seems to me from watching most of these videos the answer is "because we can". And sure, I get that's an answer, of sorts. But it seems childish.

    Most of the videos seem to just be people who are trying to get stopped by police for the attention.


    Anyway, before I get too long winded, I just wanted to say "here is someone who thinks they are pro 2a, but is against open carry, particularly of rifles, and is willing to have a long civil and hopefully thoughtful conversation on the topic"

    So if you're interested, lets chat.

    And if you think I'm just a troll for posting this, at least let me assure you that everything I've said is in fact honest. I made the decision to start a new thread as my first post specifically so as not to disrupt the board but giving my opinions in various threads. That way, if this gets shut down, it was just one thread, I will take the hint, and look for conversation elsewhere. Minimal disruption....so I guess there is that.

    Thanks

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    First, discussion of LGOC is prohibited on this site.

    Second, I OC because it is my and your legal and constitutionally protected right to do so (depending upon your specific location).

    Thirdly, as stated on this site, "A right unexercised is a right lost"!

    Personally, I don't care if, what, or how one carries provided they do so lawfully. I and many others would appreciate the acceptance and recognition of our rights to do so even though another may not share he same views.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    A reason, one reason, to open carry is that no permit is required here, and hence no profit to the pay for privileges - P4P - crowd that would make a business selling indulgences from the infringement of the Second Amendment. Open carry is the right, while permission is often required to conceal.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    First, discussion of LGOC is prohibited on this site.

    Second, I OC because it is my and your legal and constitutionally protected right to do so (depending upon your specific location).

    Thirdly, as stated on this site, "A right unexercised is a right lost"!

    Personally, I don't care if, what, or how one carries provided they do so lawfully. I and many others would appreciate the acceptance and recognition of our rights to do so even though another may not share he same views.


    Whoops my bad, I guess I read the rules quicker than I thought. No more discussing LGOC, sorry. I find that rather telling though. Anyway, dropping it.

    On the second point, yes it's your legal right to do so, in some places. As to constitutionally protected..well, that's debatable. The Supreme court hasn't ruled on that issue, but in the meantime a lot of people have ended up with legal troubles.

    Add to that, there is a big difference between "can" and "should".

    On the third point, sorry I'm not a big fan of slogans in general, usually they are very flawed. And this one seems just as flawed as most. Simply because I don't choose to exercise a particular right at this time, doesn't mean I can't exercise that right later. I could go to my first public protest at the age of 95, I wouldn't have lost my 1st amendment right simply because I didn't choose to exercise it until late in life. I would say it's "a right reserved" rather than "lost".

    I am also for people carrying lawfully rather than unlawfully. But I personally am against open carry, as a matter of public policy. I'm not sure I would want it outlawed per se, I just see it as disruptive and kinda rude. Not something that actually promotes gun ownership. In fact, I have to say, a lot of these videos made me cringe, in the sense that they seem harmful to the image of responsible gun ownership.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    "The mode of open carry that shall remain unnamed" is banned from discussion here for a reason. OCDO promotes the safe and lawful carry of a properly holstered handgun. Although we cannot discuss it much further without some moderation happening, I'm willing to bet the owners of this site feel similarly to you about "The mode of open carry that shall remain unnamed", hence the rule. Some here agree, some here don't - some based on practice and some based on principle.

    There are states like Texas (before OC legislation) where there is no other mode of permitless carry available, so people would OC long guns both because it was the only legal way to carry and also to create awareness that the law is simply dictating such behavior and to try and suggest some reform happen.

    Are you against the OC of a properly holstered hand gun?

    *edit* I OC because it makes the most sense and because I do not believe in the permit system of asking permission for a right. Also taking into account practicality, I only carry full sized handguns. The smallest I carry is a Sig P229 .40.
    Last edited by The Truth; 07-16-2015 at 05:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    A reason, one reason, to open carry is that no permit is required here, and hence no profit to the pay for privileges - P4P - crowd that would make a business selling indulgences from the infringement of the Second Amendment. Open carry is the right, while permission is often required to conceal.
    Ok, I'll give you a big point on that one. I hadn't thought of that. While I am for a licensing system for concealed carry, mostly to make it easier if you do happen to "print" a bit. You can pull out the card and say "It's ok, I've passed a background check".

    The "liberal" side of me is outraged by the often high costs of licensing. If concealed carry was embraced by the Democratic party, they would go nuts saying it's akin to a poll tax. That it tries to stop the poor from getting equal protection under the 14th amendment.

    But then we still have the other issues, as essentially you would be carrying one way to raise awareness to carry a different way. It's kind of a roundabout way to get where you want. Seems to me you would get further quicker by petitioning for the fees to get abolished directly. And in the meantime wouldn't freak people out and possibly get a cops gun pointed at you, or otherwise just waste time.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I need no validation, nor do I need to give justification. I OC because it is legal, it is a right, and because I want to.
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    Kadmos,

    To amplify the slogan---- IF one cannot lawfully exercise a right, they don't have the right! This is the context of the slogan. MANY have had legal challenges over the years in the exercise of a Right and the Courts (gradually) have begun to recognize these rights and are holding those who would violate these right to account!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadmos View Post
    Ok, I'll give you a big point on that one. [ ... ] get a cops gun pointed at you, or otherwise just waste time.
    LOL Just call Officer Judge Dredd that is judge, jury and executioner; due process be damned.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    "The mode of open carry that shall remain unnamed" is banned from discussion here for a reason. OCDO promotes the safe and lawful carry of a properly holstered handgun. Although we cannot discuss it much further without some moderation happening, I'm willing to bet the owners of this site feel similarly to you about LGOC, hence the rule. Some here agree, some here don't - some based on practice and some based on principle.

    There are states like Texas (before OC legislation) where there is no other mode of permitless carry available, so people would OC long guns both because it was the only legal way to carry and also to create awareness that the law is simply dictating such behavior and to try and suggest some reform happen.

    Are you against the OC of a properly holstered hand gun?

    *edit* I OC because it makes the most sense and because I do not believe in the permit system of asking permission for a right. Also taking into account practicality, I only carry full sized handguns. The smallest I carry is a Sig P229 .40.
    I'll stay away from the first part, obviously...I want to color inside the lines here.

    Yes, I am against open carry of a properly holstered hand gun. And again, I'm not saying "There should be a law against it". What I am saying is "I rather strongly feel that people shouldn't do it".

    Basically I think it scares people, comes off as a bit rude, and doesn't help further gun rights or the image of gun owners.

  11. #11
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    What makes you think that you are responsible for the emotions or feelings of others, or that others are responsible for your feelings or emotions?
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadmos View Post
    I'll stay away from the first part, obviously...I want to color inside the lines here.

    Yes, I am against open carry of a properly holstered hand gun. And again, I'm not saying "There should be a law against it". What I am saying is "I rather strongly feel that people shouldn't do it".

    Basically I think it scares people, comes off as a bit rude, and doesn't help further gun rights or the image of gun owners.
    So, how does the carry of a concealed handgun (that no one knows is there) going to further the rights of firearm ownership, possession, and carry or even to allows those who are little whiny scaredycats about a lump of metal or plastic and metal sitting in a holster to realize they are simple a victim of either their own phobia or that of someone else?

    To use Martin Luther King, Jr --- Should we not be judging a person based upon content of character (or actions) not the color of their skin (or the tools they have available to them)?
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 07-16-2015 at 06:10 PM.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadmos View Post
    I'll stay away from the first part, obviously...I want to color inside the lines here.

    Yes, I am against open carry of a properly holstered hand gun. And again, I'm not saying "There should be a law against it". What I am saying is "I rather strongly feel that people shouldn't do it".

    Basically I think it scares people, comes off as a bit rude, and doesn't help further gun rights or the image of gun owners.
    Well that is just too bad! Sorry to be blunt, not really. This is a open carry site, and you are welcome here, but don't expect to not receive heat for going against the grain. To repeat I really don't give a hoot if you feel strongly, it is just not my problem, it is yours. If you are skeered, hide in the closet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadmos View Post
    [ ... ] Basically I think it scares people, comes off as a bit rude, and doesn't help further gun rights or the image of gun owners.
    Same as tattoos, piercings, leather and icky people. SHUN ICKY How are you on ugly people?
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    I think the answer as to you being against OC is the way you were raised. You said the firearms were locked up and only taken out to target practice, and you, for some reason think someone seeing a firearm in a holster is "rude", really? why would you believe an OCied firearm is rude? alot of anti-2A people would feel the same. We as a society have been brain washed to believe we MUST hide our guns because its just too taboo for people to see them in public, thats a problem. You said you went to gun shows, were all the guns on the tables a display of rude behavior? No? then what is wrong with OC? You see you have fallen for the one lie that keeps getting told. You should hide your firearm or you will be causing unneeded panic, this too is a lie, yea maybe someone will not like the fact, but thousands of people didnt die to protect someone feelings. I dont know where you live but I can tell you after OCing for around 8 yrs I have only had one negative encounter. before you buy into all the anti-OC lies, maybe you should get together with some people who actually OC, go to a meet and see for yourself. BTW, if someone is against OC, then they dont fully support the 2A, they are just gun owners, IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    LOL Just call Officer Judge Dredd that is judge, jury and executioner; due process be damned.
    Well, no one wants that..at least I hope not.

    But the reality is that it's easy to find instances were a person with a properly holstered hand gun led to people calling 911, the police have to check it out, and occasionally it becomes "an incident" in some form or another.

    This is a waste of time and money, resources that could be better spent elsewhere. And while the extra cost might be minimal per incident, it might add up to where additional police officers become required for the area to hire. And more importantly it may delay response time for someone in critical need.

    One thing to note, a lot of really "weird" people don't realize that they put off a weird vibe. I'm not trying to make fun of weird people or say open carry folks are particularly weird. But weird people exist, I've got a bit of that myself probably sometimes. Weird people can be totally harmless. But still a bit disconcerting. A weird guy with a gun on his hip might be very disconcerting.

    Sure, the guy is probably harmless, and he might be carrying concealed, but knowing he has a gun on him just makes it so much worse.

    I bring this up because I was at a gunshow this weekend with my dad, he collects knives, and while I was talking to a vendor the guy came up started saying some kind of babbling, gave off a really creepy vibe, apologized oddly several times, and walked away. The vendor, who was selling mostly "EBR's" says to me "I'm not sure that guy should be at a gun show".

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    So if I'm reading your posts right, you are not a supporter of "the implement that shall not be mentioned" and have only a 'little" heartburn over the OC of a holstered handgun.

    If I've got that right, I want to know why you have heartburn over OCing a holstered handgun. You have posted
    I am also for people carrying lawfully rather than unlawfully. But I personally am against open carry, as a matter of public policy. I'm not sure I would want it outlawed per se, I just see it as disruptive and kinda rude. Not something that actually promotes gun ownership. In fact, I have to say, a lot of these videos made me cringe, in the sense that they seem harmful to the image of responsible gun ownership.
    Tell me about the matter of public policy. Which policy? Or is that what policy?

    Tell me how you see OC of a holstered handgun as disruptive.

    Then tell me how you see it as rude.

    Tell me why you say OC of a holstered handgun does not promote gun ownership.

    I thought we had resolved the OC of "implements that shall not be mentioned" - if that is off the table in your post quoted above, tell me how you see OC of a holstered handgun is harmful to the image of responsible gun ownership -- and start by defining "responsible gun ownership".

    Fair warning - failure/refusal to address the questions as asked will result in strongly worded requests to address the questions as asked. Continued failure/refusal may result in some rather pointed commentary.

    OTOH, the possibility of spirited and collegial exchanges of ideas and opinions exists. Towards that end I challenge you to look at your use of "public policy", "disruptive", "rude", "promoting gun ownership", and "responsible gun ownership" and determine if they might be just as much slogans as "a right", a "debatable constitutional right", and others you have mentioned.

    But before you wade into all that, I am really anxious to hear how you are going to "reserve" rights that are currently under attack without exercising them now.

    stay safe.
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    First, welcome to the board. I think you will find that if you are civil and have legitimate questions, most if not all here, can respond in kind. I need some clarification. Are you asking why open carry instead of concealed, or are you asking why open carry instead of not carrying at all?

    About the videos, some are certainly looking for a confrontation. Some are documenting a confrontation. It's pretty limited to Texas at the moment, as they did not have OC of handguns.

    I've OCed every day for over 4 years. I don't think it is rude, nor disruptive. I've carried into Walmart, McD, all kinds of retail stores, my bank a couple of times every week, auto dealers, even bought a 2014 Tundra while open carry. I'm about 1000 to 4, good responses to bad, from people. I see quite a few things that at think are rude or disruptive, yet I rarely make a big deal out of it. If no one ever did anything that might possibly offend someone else, nothing would ever happen and you couldn't leave your home. People need to toughen up a little, and get over themselves. iMO
    I've never caused a disruption, even the four bad situations. The other person was causing the disruption.

    I open carry for a little bit of a lot of reasons.

    I do not believe I should have to pay for the privilege to exercise a Right. You seem to not be convinced completely that it is a Right. At the moment, the Supreme Court disagrees with you. I disagree with some of their decisions lately as well.

    I'm a tucked in shirt guy. If it's hot I don't want to wear another piece of clothing like a sweatshirt. I do conceal in the winter when I wear a jacket. I conceal in church every Sunday.

    Open carry is the easiest, fastest, simplest, most efficient means of accessing my weapon, should I need it.

    I believe I am responsible for my own safety.

    Concealed carry is an offensive move, open carry is a defensive move.
    M
    The main reason I don't conceal, I believe open carry is a deterrent factor. It appears to me that most pro conceal/adamant anti open carry people do not view themselves as a possible victim. They seem to think that their heightened sense of situational awareness would never allow them to be a victim. That they would be the one to come to the aid of someone else who is a victim, using the tactical advantage of concealed carry. That is an offensive move. But, if you put concealed carry in the role of the victim, what happens to your tactical advantage? It's possibly a detriment.

    I'm responsible for my own safety, and that of my family, or party I'm with. My first intention is to get to safety, and get my family to safety. That probably looks like some kind of an armed retreat to cover. I have no preconceived notion of being a hero, a sheepdog, or such. You are responsible for your own safety. If you want to rely on the police to keep you safe, be my guest. I will not stop you. Once I am safe, and my family is safe, I may or may not go to the aid of someone else who is a victim. To many possible scenarios to detail. My open carry allows the good people to quickly assess me as a threat. Hopefully not. My open carry allows the not so good people to also assess me as a candidate for a possible victim. Hopefully not. I'm thinking most will decide to persue someone else instead, maybe a concealed carrier who looks unarmed, then he can use that tactical advantage!!

    Granted, if I stumble into the middle of a multi million dollar robbery where they would shoot a security guard or a policeman, I'm probably in trouble. So is everyone else.

    It's a fluid thought process, constantly changing and adapting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadmos View Post
    [ ... ] But the reality is that it's easy to find instances were a person with a properly holstered hand gun led to people calling 911, the police have to check it out, and occasionally it becomes "an incident" in some form or another. [ ... ]
    There have also been properly handled MWAG incidents in which the 9-1-1 operator explained that legally armed citizens are just that - legal. Depending on the jurisdiction it is established case law, dicta at least, that a gun is neither RAS nor PC for a confrontation.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    What makes you think that you are responsible for the emotions or feelings of others, or that others are responsible for your feelings or emotions?
    I live in part of a polite society. I have no interest in scaring people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Sparky
    So, how does the carry of a concealed handgun (that no one knows is there) going to further the rights of firearm ownership, possession, and carry or even to allows those who are little whiny scaredycats about a lump of metal or plastic and metal sitting in a holster to realize they are simple a victim of either their own phobia or that of someone else?

    To use Martin Luther King, Jr --- Should we not be judging a person based upon content of character (or actions) not the color of their skin (or the tools they have available to them)?
    Carrying concealed isn't about furthering gun rights, it's about the ability to protect yourself. Open carry by it's nature is essentially a form of public protest.

    On the King quote, sorry but it doesn't track. A person can't help the color of their skin. Open carry is a choice.

    On a side note, I think a lot of gun owners of all stripes are very disingenuous with the "lump of metal or plastic". Sure, a gun is a tool. But a feather duster is also a tool. People generally don't call the police to say a person is carrying a feather duster while walking down the street. Guns, bombs, hand grenades are different from feather dusters, lint rollers, or Elmer's glue.

    Sorry, but this is a big thing for me, I don't believe in making bad arguments just to support my position. I think it's dishonest. Yes, it's a gun, yes I could easily kill multiple people with it. But no, I'm not going to do anything with it that will make the people around me nervous. In all likelihood none of my neighbors even know I own guns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Wolf
    Well that is just too bad! Sorry to be blunt, not really. This is a open carry site, and you are welcome here, but don't expect to not receive heat for going against the grain. To repeat I really don't give a hoot if you feel strongly, it is just not my problem, it is yours. If you are skeered, hide in the closet.
    I expected to take heat. I came for reasonable discussion, hopefully good conversation. You have every right to not give a hoot how I feel about it. I have every right to think people who open carry make other gun owners look bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare
    Same as tattoos, piercings, leather and icky people. SHUN ICKY How are you on ugly people?
    True. I'm not a fan of tattoos or piercings, but no one thinks someone is going to pull a tattoo out and murder people with it.

    This comes back to "reasonable fear". If you cause another person a reasonable fear of injury or death then that's assault. Should a person be reasonably scared of you walking down the street with a gun? Honestly, I can't answer that, because I don't know you, I've never seen you. But it's safe to assume most juries are going to think there is more to reasonably fear from a man walking down the street with tattoos and a gun, than just tattoos.

  21. #21
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    If you're in support of the right to carry a properly holstered pistol BUT... then you don't really support the right to carry a pistol. Out of sight, out of mind Meh... People are often offended by any number of things. The old saying goes, "Your rights end where mine begin." There is no right to "feel comfortable" or "not get creeped out." That's just the nature of life.

    Also, you're against OC but you don't seem to be an advocate for anti-open carry legislation. So it bothers you, but not "bad enough to warrant forcible prohibition." You possess at least one qualifier to be considered anti-big-government. It seems to me you may be on the fence, and "The mode of open carry that shall remain unnamed" is getting in the way of your perception.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  22. #22
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    I've yet to read a legitimate reason to be against OC. That's not a knock on CC, but it's a choice we should make individually. Both should be supported by all gun owners, regardless of your personal choice.

    Personally, I feel that the odds of being targeted as a victim are much lower, when I OC. If I were to CC, a criminal will assume I am unarmed. Afterall, the point of CC is to appear unarmed. If I OC, the game has changed, and said criminal will most likely move along.
    Last edited by mynameiscolb; 07-16-2015 at 06:49 PM.

  23. #23
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    The OP is begin to have me consider him similar to one who would walk up to one in public who was OC'ing a firearm and challenge them their right to do so commenting upon the fear felt of imminent death due to possible unstable nature of the guy doing nothing but carrying a tool of self defense openly (where others may see it and change their mind about doing evil or where the carrier may access it more quickly that if it were concealed if when needed for lawful self-defense--- but not so courageous!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  24. #24
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    The only time I have ever had an encounter that could be perceived in any way as negative while OC is one day I was walking downtown here in Richmond VA on Broad Street and I happened to walk by a bus stop with two gentlemen sitting on a bench waiting for the bus. One of the men stopped me and asked about my weapon. We shared a few words about what guns we liked while his buddy slinked away. The man I was talking to said, "Don't worry man, he just don't like white people - especially white people with guns. He gets nervous."
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadmos View Post
    I live in part of a polite society. I have no interest in scaring people.



    Carrying concealed isn't about furthering gun rights, it's about the ability to protect yourself. Open carry by it's nature is essentially a form of public protest.

    On the King quote, sorry but it doesn't track. A person can't help the color of their skin. Open carry is a choice.

    On a side note, I think a lot of gun owners of all stripes are very disingenuous with the "lump of metal or plastic". Sure, a gun is a tool. But a feather duster is also a tool. People generally don't call the police to say a person is carrying a feather duster while walking down the street. Guns, bombs, hand grenades are different from feather dusters, lint rollers, or Elmer's glue.

    Sorry, but this is a big thing for me, I don't believe in making bad arguments just to support my position. I think it's dishonest. Yes, it's a gun, yes I could easily kill multiple people with it. But no, I'm not going to do anything with it that will make the people around me nervous. In all likelihood none of my neighbors even know I own guns.



    I expected to take heat. I came for reasonable discussion, hopefully good conversation. You have every right to not give a hoot how I feel about it. I have every right to think people who open carry make other gun owners look bad.



    True. I'm not a fan of tattoos or piercings, but no one thinks someone is going to pull a tattoo out and murder people with it.

    This comes back to "reasonable fear". If you cause another person a reasonable fear of injury or death then that's assault. Should a person be reasonably scared of you walking down the street with a gun? Honestly, I can't answer that, because I don't know you, I've never seen you. But it's safe to assume most juries are going to think there is more to reasonably fear from a man walking down the street with tattoos and a gun, than just tattoos.
    You choose to cater yourself to the attention of others. That's your choice. You want to fit in and not come across as too scary. That's all fine and dandy, and I won't ridicule your decision.

    But many of us are not that type of person. It's one thing to refrain from cussing in front of strangers, and being polite / courteous. But it stops at self defense. The safety of myself and my family is more important than someone's emotional feelings on firearms.

    It's not a protest, for me. It's not political. It's for protection, and to exercise my right to self defense.

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