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Thread: Lack of respect for authorities

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Lack of respect for authorities

    I believe the lack of due respect for officers of the law is a growing problem today.
    I seem to recall plenty of criminals getting killed fighting with police in the past. Now it seems there are more and more shootings involving people who aren't actually any threat but force the authorities to kill them by not following commands. Perhaps something about today's society or media coverage is lessening the respect young people have for the danger present by disobeying cops. Maybe the lack of respect shown by some political officials' comments toward police are adding to the problem. What do you think?

    From the article:
    "Diaz Zeferino removed his baseball hat and lowered his hands. As he began to raise his hands again, three of the officers opened fire, the district attorney's memo said."

    This came after the police clearly told him not to move and even threatened to shoot him if he moved again.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...ry.html#page=1
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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    I almost posted this yesterday, but couldn't find a legitimate correlation to OC.

    That video is 100% murder caught on film. To think that moving one's arms out of an uncomfortable position could get one shot is absurd. The guy apparently didn't even speak English. They were shot as the man was putting his hands back up. His hands were in plain sight. The fact that the cops were cleared of wrongdoing says it all in regards to respect. You're damn right I have no respect for some scumbag who kills another person on mere principle...and gets away with it over and over again.

    Next time there's a bicyclist barreling towards you on the sidewalk, how about you open fire and claim self defense. You feared for your life! If he had hit you, you could have sustained a serious head injury, causing death! You had to do it! He had this criminal look about him!

    Too many fascists in the police force, not enough intellectuals.
    Last edited by The Truth; 07-17-2015 at 06:09 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    From that article, "Police officers are entitled to fear."

    Scoff, pfft, cough, fart.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I believe the lack of due respect for officers of the law is a growing problem today.
    I seem to recall plenty of criminals getting killed fighting with police in the past. Now it seems there are more and more shootings involving people who aren't actually any threat but force the authorities to kill them by not following commands.
    Compliance with orders is completely different than respect for the one giving the orders.

    As dangerous as this will come to the "but he could have ...." crap, the notion of cops being "forced" to kill for not following commands suggests that the person is intentionally trying to commit suicide by cop, as opposed to not understanding the words, not knowing which of multiple contradictory commands to obey, or being so confused as to why they are the sudden center of attention of all those cops that their brain refuses to stop processing that and start processing what the cops are telling them what to do.

    Perhaps something about today's society or media coverage is lessening the respect young people have for the danger present by disobeying cops. Maybe the lack of respect shown by some political officials' comments toward police are adding to the problem. What do you think?
    "Respect ... for the danger present by disobeying cops"? Perhaps a better word would be "fear". And IMHO bringing in the behavior and words of politicians about cops and their actions just conflates and confuses the import of the two very different issues.

    If the "common knowledge" is that the cops are going to shoot you if you do not do what they tell you to do, that ought to engender a fear of the cops shooting you if you do not do exactly and precisely what they wanted you to do.

    If the "common knowledge" is that politicians have no respect for cops and will use the opportunity to say disparaging things about cops in order to advance a point or their popularity, that ought to engender a lack of respect as shown by polite interaction with the cops as opposed to name-calling and acts of violence towards them because of some expectation of immunity or rescue by the politicians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    [ ... ] the danger present by disobeying cops. [ ... ]
    Respect is good, but fear works.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    I almost posted this yesterday, but couldn't find a legitimate correlation to OC.

    That video is 100% murder caught on film.
    snip
    I'm sorry you chose not to read the article. It clearly states that the Gardena Police Department says the shooting was justified

    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    I almost posted this yesterday, but couldn't find a legitimate correlation to OC.
    Well I thought since there are sometimes posts of encounters with cops due to OCing, a discussion on life saving compliance would be ok in the social.

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Compliance with orders is completely different than respect for the one giving the orders.

    As dangerous as this will come to the "but he could have ...." crap, the notion of cops being "forced" to kill for not following commands suggests that the person is intentionally trying to commit suicide by cop, as opposed to not understanding the words, not knowing which of multiple contradictory commands to obey, or being so confused as to why they are the sudden center of attention of all those cops that their brain refuses to stop processing that and start processing what the cops are telling them what to do.



    "Respect ... for the danger present by disobeying cops"? Perhaps a better word would be "fear". And IMHO bringing in the behavior and words of politicians about cops and their actions just conflates and confuses the import of the two very different issues.

    If the "common knowledge" is that the cops are going to shoot you if you do not do what they tell you to do, that ought to engender a fear of the cops shooting you if you do not do exactly and precisely what they wanted you to do.

    If the "common knowledge" is that politicians have no respect for cops and will use the opportunity to say disparaging things about cops in order to advance a point or their popularity, that ought to engender a lack of respect as shown by polite interaction with the cops as opposed to name-calling and acts of violence towards them because of some expectation of immunity or rescue by the politicians.

    stay safe.
    The comments of the politicians may not have anything to do with it. Just throwing ideas out.

    It's a real shame for the dead guy. According to the article he was a friend of the guy whose bicycle was stolen. Just trying to help look for the bicycle.
    IT's a shame he did not obey the cops commands.

    Also a shame for the guy standing NEXT to the guy not listening. He did listen and still took a wild round.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    snip
    I'm sorry you chose not to read the article. It clearly states that the Gardena Police Department says the shooting was justified
    I've read the article and seen the video. I don't really care what GPD says. Of course they "ruled" the shooting "justified." Does that really make it true? Or just "legally justified?" Sorry, but my personal litmus test for "justified" goes beyond what the department in question thinks about the shooting, or what "policy" allows for such a reaction. Perhaps those policies need reform.

    Why else would the city shell out $4.7M? Anyone who has watched the video knows why.

    Did YOU read the article? The guy that was shot and killed didn't even speak English, and was drunk. So now not being able to understand police commands warrants death? Had the cops been able to understand the foreign language he was speaking they would also know that he was not the guy they were looking for. The guy tried to tell them.

    The excuse for this senseless shooting is that the officers "feared he was reaching for a weapon." That means they knowingly shot a man to death without ever seeing a weapon, only fearing that there may be a weapon. Were the men under arrest, or just being detained?

    It's a sad, statist paradise when a known innocent victim is blamed for the fear based actions of a police officer which result in death, just because in some handbook somewhere there's a policy that allows such.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    I've read the article and seen the video. I don't really care what GPD says. Of course they "ruled" the shooting "justified." Does that really make it true? Or just "legally justified?" Sorry, but my personal litmus test for "justified" goes beyond what the department in question thinks about the shooting, or what "policy" allows for such a reaction. Perhaps those policies need reform.

    Why else would the city shell out $4.7M? Anyone who has watched the video knows why.

    Did YOU read the article? The guy that was shot and killed didn't even speak English, and was drunk. So now not being able to understand police commands warrants death? Had the cops been able to understand the foreign language he was speaking they would also know that he was not the guy they were looking for. The guy tried to tell them.

    The excuse for this senseless shooting is that the officers "feared he was reaching for a weapon." That means they knowingly shot a man to death without ever seeing a weapon, only fearing that there may be a weapon. Were the men under arrest, or just being detained?

    It's a sad, statist paradise when a known innocent victim is blamed for the fear based actions of a police officer which result in death, just because in some handbook somewhere there's a policy that allows such.
    I have to admit to misgivings when I read that the department fought so hard to keep the video from being released even appealing after the first court ordered it.
    But Gardena Police Chief Ed Medranomy put my mind at ease: "We don't want our community members to feel distrustful of us because they know at some point their situation may end up on video or on the Internet. There's a balanced approach,"
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    It's my opinion that the reason it was a justified shooting had absolutely nothing to do with the actual shooting and everything to do with the fact that the encounter was predicated by dispatch falsely reporting the incident as a robbery. That changes the dynamic of the encounter from the police's perspective and suggests that a weapon may be involved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    The belief of "authority" in a supposed free land may be part of the problem.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Griz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    But Gardena Police Chief Ed Medranomy put my mind at ease: "We don't want our community members to feel distrustful of us because they know at some point their situation may end up on video or on the Internet. There's a balanced approach,"
    If I am gunned down, I would certainly hope the video of "my situation" ends up on the internet.

    Of, if it ends up on COPS, I probably did something dumb, and deserved that kind of coverage.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I believe the lack of due respect for officers of the law is a growing problem today. ...
    And what has LE done to earn my respect? Compliance is demanded, or else. Respect? Nope, not one ounce will be extended.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I have to admit to misgivings when I read that the department fought so hard to keep the video from being released even appealing after the first court ordered it.
    But Gardena Police Chief Ed Medranomy put my mind at ease: "We don't want our community members to feel distrustful of us because they know at some point their situation may end up on video or on the Internet. There's a balanced approach,"
    Are you serious, or is this some serious sarcasm? I mean, I'm a really sarcastic person, and usually I can pick it up, even in writing... But damn, I can't tell in this case.

    I really hope you're being sarcastic.

    I hope the OP is sarcasm too.

    If not, your analysis if the scenario is disgusting. To even suggest that any person has the rightful authority to forcefully demand "respect" from another, and to use lethal force when that respect isn't produced, is so morally void I can't even think how to express my utter disgust.

    The department's administrative or investigative findings are so incredibly irrelevant, I don't know why any would even bother mentioning them except to add a tally mark to the count of times the police have absolved themselves of obvious criminal activity.
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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Yeah, lack of respect... from officers to their fellow citizens, sure is a problem these days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    Yeah, lack of respect... from officers to their fellow citizens, sure is a problem these days.
    Yeah, lack of respect ... by public servants for their public masters, biting the hand that feeds them.
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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    It is also "common knowledge" that an armed burglar may shoot and kill you if you don't comply. Does that mean lack of "due" respect for armed burglars might be a growing problem today? Or, if bad consequences resulted from disrespecting robbers would we not first applaud individuals for standing up even in the face of threats of violence and then also correctly recognize the problem as the burglars committing burglary? Likewise, we must correctly identify the problem here. The problem is that people are being shot without justification. It's nice to think people should show respect for individuals deserving of it. It's not nice to think that people are justified in shooting other people for not showing enough respect.
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    LOL Whack A Troll® I claim copyright!
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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    LOL Whack A Troll® I claim copyright!
    I don't seem to remember twoskinsonemanns being a statist troll in the past, so you're probably correct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    No accusation here.

    I was watching the focus move from one closed thread to another that will be. There's more than one Mole in the game of Whack A Mole and more than one troll in Whack A Troll®.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    It is also "common knowledge" that an armed burglar may shoot and kill you if you don't comply. Does that mean lack of "due" respect for armed burglars might be a growing problem today? Or, if bad consequences resulted from disrespecting robbers would we not first applaud individuals for standing up even in the face of threats of violence and then also correctly recognize the problem as the burglars committing burglary? Likewise, we must correctly identify the problem here. The problem is that people are being shot without justification. It's nice to think people should show respect for individuals deserving of it. It's not nice to think that people are justified in shooting other people for not showing enough respect.
    first, the nice LEs do not have to respond to any citizens call for assistance...

    lets put this to rest.. according to the FBI in 2012...ONLY 48 LEs lost their lives in line of duty incidents... 48!!
    12 officers died as a result of arrest situations.
    8 officers were fatally injured during traffic pursuits or stops.
    8 officers died as a result of investigating suspicious persons or circumstances.
    6 officers were involved in ambush situations.
    5 officers were killed as a result of tactical situations (barricaded offender, hostage taking, high-risk entry, etc.).
    4 officers who died had responded to disturbance calls.
    3 officers suffered fatal injuries while handling, transporting, or maintaining custody of prisoners.
    1 officer was conducting investigative activity (surveillance, search, interview, etc.).
    1 officer died due to a felonious incident while handling a person with mental illness.

    16% or 8 died investigating! oh this is the same number who died while engaged in pursuit or traffic stops...
    https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...pic_page_-2012

    one LE death is tragic...but 48 out of 756K sworn individuals in 2012... .0006% of the work force!!

    i'm not a person of color and i am concerned of traffic stops or encounters with nice LEs.

    respect...lets go back to community policing where the block cop knows the goings on of the citizens then the nice LEs will have earned my respect.

    ipse

    added: our congress mandated records be kept on number of citizens killed by nice LEs and to date the data is being collected...hummmm.
    Last edited by solus; 07-17-2015 at 01:15 PM.
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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Please let's keep on topic. This thread is about the possible idea that the lack of respect for authority could be a factor in all the many police shootings when there is no threat actually present.
    It's a reasonable suggestion.




    This thread is NOT about the vile, murderous scum seen in the video slaughtering an innocent citizen out looking for his friend's bicycle. Nor is it about the repugnant, despicable, corrupt police department that fought to hide the video and applauded the good shoot and put the thugs right back on the street.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    I am not defending the cops. But, I have personally dealt with 911 dispatchers and read many stories about dispatchers (I believe intentionally) giving out the wrong information.

    I'm not condemning all dispatchers.

    Look at City of Cincinnati police website: http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/police/contact-us/911/

    Look at the list that demands a 911 call.

    Appropriate uses of 911 are instances of immediate danger or there is a crime in progress, such as:

    breaking and entering
    assault
    rape
    shooting
    cutting/stabbing
    robbery
    any crime against a child
    missing person (if they are a child or an adult with a mental or physical disability)
    vehicle accident
    person with a weapon (gun/knife)
    suspicious situations
    medical emergencies
    fires
    electrical lines down
    gas leaks
    an immediate situation where someone can be injured or is injured
    So, based on the list "person with a weapon" means DANGER.
    Or shoot to kill?

    Understand miscommunication? It's built into the system. Not good.
    Last edited by color of law; 07-17-2015 at 02:26 PM.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Please let's keep on topic. This thread is about the possible idea that the lack of respect for authority could be a factor in all the many police shootings when there is no threat actually present.
    It's a reasonable suggestion.




    This thread is NOT about the vile, murderous scum seen in the video slaughtering an innocent citizen out looking for his friend's bicycle. Nor is it about the repugnant, despicable, corrupt police department that fought to hide the video and applauded the good shoot and put the thugs right back on the street.
    So the question is, "Could lack of respect for authority be a factor in all the many police shootings where there is no threat actually present?"

    I doubt it. It's called testosterone, fear, lack of proper judgement, God complex, statism, ego, and in fact lack of respect for human life and civil rights on the part of LEO. Add to it the LEO is jaded and at the end of his shift, it's a perfect storm for fascism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  25. #25
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Please let's keep on topic. This thread is about the possible idea that the lack of respect for authority could be a factor in all the many police shootings when there is no threat actually present.
    It's a reasonable suggestion.




    This thread is NOT about the vile, murderous scum seen in the video slaughtering an innocent citizen out looking for his friend's bicycle. Nor is it about the repugnant, despicable, corrupt police department that fought to hide the video and applauded the good shoot and put the thugs right back on the street.
    This post seems like night and day from the OP, perhaps I didn't catch your intended meaning?

    Sure, I think that people showing less respect towards police officers could indeed be leading to some of those officers using force, even lethal force, more often. I don't think anyone would disagree that disrespect can cause anger. That isn't an excuse or justification but could be a reason for their behavior.

    Another way to look at it might be that people are increasingly intolerant of the inequality of being subjected to police 'misuse of authority', and are therefore increasingly dissentive. That could be giving society too much credit, though.

    ETA Another way to look at it might be that people may be less and less showing recognition for faux authority, which could certainly lead to anger in an enforcer claiming the authority.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 07-17-2015 at 02:45 PM.
    Advocate freedom please

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