Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 37

Thread: OC Restaurant Confusion

  1. #1
    Regular Member BBGun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Raleigh
    Posts
    15

    Question OC Restaurant Confusion

    n00b here.

    Looking over at 2A Friendly, it says places like Olive Garden are OK. However, they serve alcoholic drinks, and obviously, people consume them there.

    But the NC flier states:
    Places Where Firearms Are Prohibited:
    North Carolina law prohibits any person from Openly Carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol into:
    2. Any establishment where alcoholic beverages are both sold and consumed (14-269.3)
    So those restaurants really aren't 2A friendly, correct?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    § 14-269.3.
    Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    (b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
    (1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14-269.
    (2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment.
    (3) A person participating in the event, if the person is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.
    (4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.
    (5) A person carrying a handgun if the person has a valid concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, has a concealed handgun permit considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, or is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14-415.25. This subdivision shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14-415.11(c).
    (1977, c. 1016, s. 1; 1981, c. 412, s. 4; c. 747, s. 66; 1993, c. 539, s. 165; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2013-369, s. 3.)
    Note that (5) does not require a concealed handgun, only a concealed handgun permit. (And that the establishment not be conspicuously posted)
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 07-20-2015 at 12:55 AM.

  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622
    § 14-269.3.
    Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    (b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
    (1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14-269.
    (2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment.
    (3) A person participating in the event, if the person is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.
    (4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.
    (5) A person carrying a handgun if the person has a valid concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, has a concealed handgun permit considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, or is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14-415.25. This subdivision shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14-415.11(c).
    (1977, c. 1016, s. 1; 1981, c. 412, s. 4; c. 747, s. 66; 1993, c. 539, s. 165; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2013-369, s. 3.)



    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    § 14-269.3.

    Note that (5) does not require a concealed handgun, only a concealed handgun permit. (And that the establishment not be conspicuously posted)
    ???
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  4. #4
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,884
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    grape, et al.: as discussed ad nauseam against those who say "nope" to 'oh well ya maybe'...

    the presumption factor(s) is you have the permission of the person in charge of the establishment on private property to OC & no imbibing as if you blow even the slightest level your firearm will be taken by the nice LEs but your keys will be handed back to you so you can drive home.

    OP: these establishments could very well be 2A friends somewhere in this great country, but the OUR (pushed by GRNC, et al.) legislature has mandated, not the business owner no firearms are allowed on the private property. please understand that distinction...especially since as mentioned the person in charge of the PRIVATE property can invite you in and the nice LEs would be limited in their interaction since it is PRIVATE property and no crime is being committed, per se.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 07-20-2015 at 01:00 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  5. #5
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    !!!

  6. #6
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,279
    Darn, now I am going to have to dig for that section in the NC concealed carry law. Much to the dismay of GRNC as long as you obtain permission from the manager, or owner you can legally OC in a restaurant that serves alcohol without a permit. Make sure tho that you have a recording so the cops cannot intimidate the owner into changing his story. I have never had a problem getting permission.

    Once I find the statute I will post it so you can print it. Also if you are NOT using a permit to OC you can legally imbibe alcohol. The restriction for alcohol is ONLY for a CHP.

    It is pretty much similar to VA except you have to go out of your way to get permission.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Fayetteville NC
    Posts
    751
    § 14-269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.

    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    (b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
    (2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment.

    (3) A person participating in the event, if the person is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.


    WW, I believe your reference is 12-269.3(3), already posted.
    Last edited by bc.cruiser; 07-20-2015 at 07:03 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,279
    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    § 14-269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.

    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    (b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
    (2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment.

    (3) A person participating in the event, if the person is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.


    WW, I believe your reference is 12-269.3(3), already posted.
    That would be the citation. I have never carried a copy, but it might not hurt to.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  9. #9
    Regular Member BBGun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Raleigh
    Posts
    15
    This sure seems messy. As a new owner who hasn't taken the concealed class yet, the rules sure are confusing. I can't even keep my handgun legally in the glovebox while driving. I guess I'm supposed to let it scoot around the dash. It sounds like taking the handgun into the restaurant is a gray line unless you draw attention to oneself by asking permission to carry in the establishment. Or unless you're asked not to, assume it's OK.

    Are y'all fans of GRNC?

  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622
    Quote Originally Posted by BBGun View Post
    This sure seems messy. As a new owner who hasn't taken the concealed class yet, the rules sure are confusing. I can't even keep my handgun legally in the glovebox while driving. I guess I'm supposed to let it scoot around the dash. It sounds like taking the handgun into the restaurant is a gray line unless you draw attention to oneself by asking permission to carry in the establishment. Or unless you're asked not to, assume it's OK.

    Are y'all fans of GRNC?
    Some seem to think that they are less than supportive of OC.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,279
    Quote Originally Posted by BBGun View Post
    This sure seems messy. As a new owner who hasn't taken the concealed class yet, the rules sure are confusing. I can't even keep my handgun legally in the glovebox while driving. I guess I'm supposed to let it scoot around the dash. It sounds like taking the handgun into the restaurant is a gray line unless you draw attention to oneself by asking permission to carry in the establishment. Or unless you're asked not to, assume it's OK.

    Are y'all fans of GRNC?
    You don't need a permit to wear your holstered handgun in a vehicle, as long as it is open carried.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  12. #12
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,884
    Quote Originally Posted by BBGun View Post
    This sure seems messy. As a new owner who hasn't taken the concealed class yet, the rules sure are confusing. I can't even keep my handgun legally in the glovebox while driving. I guess I'm supposed to let it scoot around the dash. It sounds like taking the handgun into the restaurant is a gray line unless you draw attention to oneself by asking permission to carry in the establishment. Or unless you're asked not to, assume it's OK.

    Are y'all fans of GRNC?
    so welcome to the forum, so are you interested in OC'g or CC'g?

    if the former, you will discern a wealth of information on this site. if the latter, then even after class you will still be equally confused!!

    and to answer your question...NO not in the least ~ much to do about nothing.

    ipse

    oh sorry...put it on the seat next to you...or on your side where it belongs in the first place...just remember if stopped to tell the nice LE you have one on your hip...
    Last edited by solus; 07-21-2015 at 12:13 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  13. #13
    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    425
    Quote Originally Posted by BBGun View Post
    n00b here.

    Looking over at 2A Friendly, it says places like Olive Garden are OK. However, they serve alcoholic drinks, and obviously, people consume them there.

    But the NC flier states:


    So those restaurants really aren't 2A friendly, correct?
    It is not the restaurant, but how the law was written.

  14. #14
    Regular Member BBGun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Raleigh
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    so welcome to the forum, so are you interested in OC'g or CC'g?

    if the former, you will discern a wealth of information on this site. if the latter, then even after class you will still be equally confused!!
    Thank you. I like the idea of OC, which is why I'm trying to find out where I can & can't go. I'm kinda nervous about it.

    I was told if I wanted to keep buying handguns, I should get my CHP to save duplicate paperwork each time. Also, if I can go more places concealed, that's a bonus, right?


    and to answer your question...NO not in the least ~ much to do about nothing.
    I was on their site last night & signed up for their email blasts. I was wanting more information before giving them any money.


    oh sorry...put it on the seat next to you...or on your side where it belongs in the first place...just remember if stopped to tell the nice LE you have one on your hip...
    I'm driving a wheelchair conversion minivan. No passenger seat as that is where my wife sits in her chair. I'm not sure about the holster that came with my Sig; I'm concerned it will fall out. https://gunsmagazine.com/exclusive-s...addle-holster/

  15. #15
    Regular Member dmatting's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Posts
    443
    Quote Originally Posted by BBGun View Post
    Thank you. I like the idea of OC, which is why I'm trying to find out where I can & can't go. I'm kinda nervous about it.

    I was told if I wanted to keep buying handguns, I should get my CHP to save duplicate paperwork each time. Also, if I can go more places concealed, that's a bonus, right?




    I was on their site last night & signed up for their email blasts. I was wanting more information before giving them any money.




    I'm driving a wheelchair conversion minivan. No passenger seat as that is where my wife sits in her chair. I'm not sure about the holster that came with my Sig; I'm concerned it will fall out. https://gunsmagazine.com/exclusive-s...addle-holster/
    My advice would be to take a step back and relax... understand that many, many people OC in this state without any hassles whatsoever.

    Next, you should seriously consider purchasing a retention holster. Personally, I use a Serpa. I also know that the Safariland ALS is well liked. There are others, I am sure. Proper equipment and due diligence in training with that equipment is very important.

    You can carry your holstered pistol while driving. If stopped, it's up to you whether you notify or not, I don't see how it can hurt but I don't like saying much to cops for any reason, but that is a thread of another color.

    Before you start worrying about carrying in a place that serves alcohol, go other places. Get your feet wet and just OC. There is nothing better than that for increasing your confidence. I was there, too, as were many... its a conditioned mindset that makes you nervous about OCing and the way to overcome it is to do it. If you really need to go to a restaurant, there are plenty out there that do not serve alcohol. Golden Corral and all the fast food joints are perfectly legal. If any are posted, then it is a store policy and I would suggest you spend your money at a different establishment.

    Another good way to break your OC cherry is to organize an OC lunch. Post a thread in here where you will be eating and at what time and someone or someones from this group may show up.

    Just relax and go in from the shallow end, the water really isn't that cold.

  16. #16
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,884
    Quote Originally Posted by BBGun View Post
    Thank you. I like the idea of OC, which is why I'm trying to find out where I can & can't go. I'm kinda nervous about it.

    I was told if I wanted to keep buying handguns, I should get my CHP to save duplicate paperwork each time. Also, if I can go more places concealed, that's a bonus, right?

    (for the $70 course cost plus $80 sheriffs fees you can buy a lot of $5 PPPs which last for 5 years? you actually can go more OC'g if you have the stuff men are made of walking into the police stations OC'g, me is a wussie so don't wish to test the waters so to speak)


    I was on their site last night & signed up for their email blasts. I was wanting more information before giving them any money.

    (oh thank heavens you had a moment of clarity...good choice...look at their purported accomplishments...'we passed legislation, (not the NC legislature) as well as search for and critically read the olde thread under NC from oh late 13 out here where the president and one of the directors of grnc flat out stated, let's see...quote: grnc was only for sane, sober, and law biding... unquote)

    I'm driving a wheelchair conversion minivan. No passenger seat as that is where my wife sits in her chair. I'm not sure about the holster that came with my Sig; I'm concerned it will fall out. https://gunsmagazine.com/exclusive-s...addle-holster/

    (go check out the holster thread...most have boxes of holsters which are accumulated over our years of carrying as they fall out of favor for newer, or better suited accessories)
    some even modify holsters for the shoulder strap of their seatbelt.

    pm inbound before the day is out.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  17. #17
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,884
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I don't read 14-269.3 (3) as allowing just any carry in a restaurant without a permit with the permission of the owner. 14-269.3 covers two separate situations. The first situation is "any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" and the second situation is "any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed." You are eating dinner in Olive Garden. What "event" are you a participate in? Is going to a movie and stopping for dinner at Olive Garden on the way home "an event" and is the manager on duty the "person or organization sponsoring the event" since they are not the owner or lessee? It would seem that "participating in the event" means "an assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" - and then are spectators/audience considered as "participating in the event"?

    To me it would seem like (3) would apply, for example, at a rodeo where an admission fee is charged and a participant in the rodeo wanted to carry. A person in the audience watching the rodeo would be pretty grey - are they "participating" in the event? Eating dinner at Applebees would be much more toward the black side because is that considered any event at all?

    Also notice that (3) says "A person participating in THE event" - not just any old event will suffice - it has to be THE event which would seem to indicate that it applies on to THE "assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" and not to THE Olive Garden where you happen to be eating dinner that night.
    stepping back,
    raisinets & cherry slurpy in hand watching the main arena

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	big top.jpg 
Views:	62 
Size:	6.4 KB 
ID:	12658


    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  18. #18
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,279
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I don't read 14-269.3 (3) as allowing just any carry in a restaurant without a permit with the permission of the owner. 14-269.3 covers two separate situations. The first situation is "any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" and the second situation is "any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed." You are eating dinner in Olive Garden. What "event" are you a participate in? Is going to a movie and stopping for dinner at Olive Garden on the way home "an event" and is the manager on duty the "person or organization sponsoring the event" since they are not the owner or lessee? It would seem that "participating in the event" means "an assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" - and then are spectators/audience considered as "participating in the event"?

    To me it would seem like (3) would apply, for example, at a rodeo where an admission fee is charged and a participant in the rodeo wanted to carry. A person in the audience watching the rodeo would be pretty grey - are they "participating" in the event? Eating dinner at Applebees would be much more toward the black side because is that considered any event at all?

    Also notice that (3) says "A person participating in THE event" - not just any old event will suffice - it has to be THE event which would seem to indicate that it applies on to THE "assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" and not to THE Olive Garden where you happen to be eating dinner that night.
    Event is not defined in NC statutes so it takes the common meaning. Eating is an event. Webster dictionary lists "a social occasion, or activity" which eating/dinner/lunch/breakfast is clearly a social activity.

    GRNC tried to have it removed when they pushed the restaurant bill, but because of gun shows the general assembly refused and it remained. Somewhere there is necro thread where it was discussed. Both the police, and the Hillsborough SA stated it was legal, when one of our members set up a meet and great in a restaurant that served alcohol.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  19. #19
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Concord, NC
    Posts
    1,790
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Event is not defined in NC statutes so it takes the common meaning. Eating is an event. Webster dictionary lists "a social occasion, or activity" which eating/dinner/lunch/breakfast is clearly a social activity.

    GRNC tried to have it removed when they pushed the restaurant bill, but because of gun shows the general assembly refused and it remained. Somewhere there is necro thread where it was discussed. Both the police, and the Hillsborough SA stated it was legal, when one of our members set up a meet and great in a restaurant that served alcohol.
    With our young children, being able to eat in ANY grown-up establishment that doesn't have a clown or a drive-through is an "event" in and of itself. ;-)
    Last edited by carolina guy; 07-21-2015 at 02:09 PM. Reason: fat fingers
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

  20. #20
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,884
    well said carolina....very well said...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    , , Kernersville NC
    Posts
    783
    The deal is, OCing into a restaurant that serves alcohol is not legal unless you have permission or have a CHP. I would suggest getting one. It will be handy for travel into other states, but do still OC, we need more people OCing everywhere. I understand its a little intimidating at first, but that will pass the more you do it. Please read up on some of the OC reports and you will see, and please dont listen to any CC only zealots, they spew lies and falsehoods and most have never OCied before. And welcome to the forum.

  22. #22
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,884
    glad i got a big bag of raisinets...

    this nag is about to be beat to death yet AGAIN on the forum...sigh

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 07-21-2015 at 08:09 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  23. #23
    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    425
    Quote Originally Posted by wethepeople View Post
    The deal is, OCing into a restaurant that serves alcohol is not legal unless you have permission or have a CHP. I would suggest getting one. It will be handy for travel into other states, but do still OC, we need more people OCing everywhere. I understand its a little intimidating at first, but that will pass the more you do it. Please read up on some of the OC reports and you will see, and please dont listen to any CC only zealots, they spew lies and falsehoods and most have never OCied before. And welcome to the forum.
    I live less than an hours drive from 3 neighboring states that have no OC (SC), or permit required OC (TN & GA). Why would I not carry my gun when I travel to these states?
    Last edited by XD40sc; 07-21-2015 at 09:14 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Troutman, NC
    Posts
    60
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I don't read 14-269.3 (3) as allowing just any carry in a restaurant without a permit with the permission of the owner. 14-269.3 covers two separate situations. The first situation is "any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" and the second situation is "any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed." You are eating dinner in Olive Garden. What "event" are you a participate in? Is going to a movie and stopping for dinner at Olive Garden on the way home "an event" and is the manager on duty the "person or organization sponsoring the event" since they are not the owner or lessee? It would seem that "participating in the event" means "an assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" - and then are spectators/audience considered as "participating in the event"?

    To me it would seem like (3) would apply, for example, at a rodeo where an admission fee is charged and a participant in the rodeo wanted to carry. A person in the audience watching the rodeo would be pretty grey - are they "participating" in the event? Eating dinner at Applebees would be much more toward the black side because is that considered any event at all?

    Also notice that (3) says "A person participating in THE event" - not just any old event will suffice - it has to be THE event which would seem to indicate that it applies on to THE "assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" and not to THE Olive Garden where you happen to be eating dinner that night.
    I agree with you.

    I had the same discussion with WalkingWolf a long while ago when I pointed out the wording where I could open carry in a restaurant serving alcohol, if I had a CHP. To which WalkingWolf said I was wrong and that the writers of the statutes meant that I had to concealed carry, BUT he could open carry if he was taking part in the event, with that "event" being eating. Also he states that if he has the owners permission he can open carry. I disagree, just because he has the owners permission, doesn't allow him or the owner to disregard the laws.

    Don't waste your time.
    Last edited by gary737; 07-22-2015 at 08:06 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Concord, NC
    Posts
    1,790
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I don't read 14-269.3 (3) as allowing just any carry in a restaurant without a permit with the permission of the owner. 14-269.3 covers two separate situations. The first situation is "any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" and the second situation is "any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed." You are eating dinner in Olive Garden. What "event" are you a participate in? Is going to a movie and stopping for dinner at Olive Garden on the way home "an event" and is the manager on duty the "person or organization sponsoring the event" since they are not the owner or lessee? It would seem that "participating in the event" means "an assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" - and then are spectators/audience considered as "participating in the event"?

    To me it would seem like (3) would apply, for example, at a rodeo where an admission fee is charged and a participant in the rodeo wanted to carry. A person in the audience watching the rodeo would be pretty grey - are they "participating" in the event? Eating dinner at Applebees would be much more toward the black side because is that considered any event at all?

    Also notice that (3) says "A person participating in THE event" - not just any old event will suffice - it has to be THE event which would seem to indicate that it applies on to THE "assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" and not to THE Olive Garden where you happen to be eating dinner that night.
    § 14-269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:(1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14-269.(2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment.(3) A person participating in the event, if the person is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.(4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.(5) A person carrying a handgun if the person has a valid concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, has a concealed handgun permit considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, or is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14-415.25. This subdivision shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14-415.11(c). (1977, c. 1016, s. 1; 1981, c. 412, s. 4; c. 747, s. 66; 1993, c. 539, s. 165; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2013-369, s. 3.)
    (just in case the formatting gets womky, here is the direct link to the statute...)
    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL..._14-269.3.html

    Hmm...the way that I read it, the "event" is an open ended description referring back to the "assembly" or "establishment" in the title...and it gets itself further confused by the wording in (3) and (5) by then referring to "premises". After all, is it not possible for Olive Garden to charge (or not charge) a cover if they decided to host a local band? That would be an event...

    Also, if a group, say an OC group wanted to meet at an establishment that happened to serve alcohol...would that not be an event for the OC group? How about a few friends gathering? Or two people? Or a person and his meal? At what point does a gathering become not a gathering or an event not become an event? Not sure, since it is not specified in the statute, but does seem to be covered in normal conversational English and daily practice (sounds a bit like common law...)

    Anyway...guess it all gets down to HOW a reasonable person thinks, feels and acts, eh?
    Last edited by carolina guy; 07-23-2015 at 11:53 AM.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •