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OC Restaurant Confusion

BBGun

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Jul 19, 2015
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n00b here.

Looking over at 2A Friendly, it says places like Olive Garden are OK. However, they serve alcoholic drinks, and obviously, people consume them there.

But the NC flier states:
Places Where Firearms Are Prohibited:
North Carolina law prohibits any person from Openly Carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol into:
2. Any establishment where alcoholic beverages are both sold and consumed (14-269.3)

So those restaurants really aren't 2A friendly, correct?
 

Fallschirjmäger

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§ 14-269.3.
Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14-269.
(2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment.
(3) A person participating in the event, if the person is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.
(4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.
(5) A person carrying a handgun if the person has a valid concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, has a concealed handgun permit considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, or is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14-415.25. This subdivision shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14-415.11(c).​
(1977, c. 1016, s. 1; 1981, c. 412, s. 4; c. 747, s. 66; 1993, c. 539, s. 165; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2013-369, s. 3.)

Note that (5) does not require a concealed handgun, only a concealed handgun permit. (And that the establishment not be conspicuously posted)
 
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Grapeshot

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§ 14-269.3.
Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14-269.
(2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment.
(3) A person participating in the event, if the person is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.
(4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.
(5) A person carrying a handgun if the person has a valid concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, has a concealed handgun permit considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, or is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14-415.25. This subdivision shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14-415.11(c).
(1977, c. 1016, s. 1; 1981, c. 412, s. 4; c. 747, s. 66; 1993, c. 539, s. 165; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2013-369, s. 3.)
§ 14-269.3.

Note that (5) does not require a concealed handgun, only a concealed handgun permit. (And that the establishment not be conspicuously posted)
???
 

solus

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grape, et al.: as discussed ad nauseam against those who say "nope" to 'oh well ya maybe'...

the presumption factor(s) is you have the permission of the person in charge of the establishment on private property to OC & no imbibing as if you blow even the slightest level your firearm will be taken by the nice LEs but your keys will be handed back to you so you can drive home.

OP: these establishments could very well be 2A friends somewhere in this great country, but the OUR (pushed by GRNC, et al.) legislature has mandated, not the business owner no firearms are allowed on the private property. please understand that distinction...especially since as mentioned the person in charge of the PRIVATE property can invite you in and the nice LEs would be limited in their interaction since it is PRIVATE property and no crime is being committed, per se.

ipse
 
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WalkingWolf

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Darn, now I am going to have to dig for that section in the NC concealed carry law. Much to the dismay of GRNC as long as you obtain permission from the manager, or owner you can legally OC in a restaurant that serves alcohol without a permit. Make sure tho that you have a recording so the cops cannot intimidate the owner into changing his story. I have never had a problem getting permission.

Once I find the statute I will post it so you can print it. Also if you are NOT using a permit to OC you can legally imbibe alcohol. The restriction for alcohol is ONLY for a CHP.

It is pretty much similar to VA except you have to go out of your way to get permission.
 

bc.cruiser

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Fayetteville NC
§ 14-269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment.

(3) A person participating in the event, if the person is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.


WW, I believe your reference is 12-269.3(3), already posted.
 
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WalkingWolf

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§ 14-269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment.

(3) A person participating in the event, if the person is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.


WW, I believe your reference is 12-269.3(3), already posted.

That would be the citation. I have never carried a copy, but it might not hurt to.
 

BBGun

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This sure seems messy. As a new owner who hasn't taken the concealed class yet, the rules sure are confusing. I can't even keep my handgun legally in the glovebox while driving. I guess I'm supposed to let it scoot around the dash. It sounds like taking the handgun into the restaurant is a gray line unless you draw attention to oneself by asking permission to carry in the establishment. Or unless you're asked not to, assume it's OK.

Are y'all fans of GRNC?
 

Grapeshot

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This sure seems messy. As a new owner who hasn't taken the concealed class yet, the rules sure are confusing. I can't even keep my handgun legally in the glovebox while driving. I guess I'm supposed to let it scoot around the dash. It sounds like taking the handgun into the restaurant is a gray line unless you draw attention to oneself by asking permission to carry in the establishment. Or unless you're asked not to, assume it's OK.

Are y'all fans of GRNC?

Some seem to think that they are less than supportive of OC.
 

WalkingWolf

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This sure seems messy. As a new owner who hasn't taken the concealed class yet, the rules sure are confusing. I can't even keep my handgun legally in the glovebox while driving. I guess I'm supposed to let it scoot around the dash. It sounds like taking the handgun into the restaurant is a gray line unless you draw attention to oneself by asking permission to carry in the establishment. Or unless you're asked not to, assume it's OK.

Are y'all fans of GRNC?

You don't need a permit to wear your holstered handgun in a vehicle, as long as it is open carried.
 

solus

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This sure seems messy. As a new owner who hasn't taken the concealed class yet, the rules sure are confusing. I can't even keep my handgun legally in the glovebox while driving. I guess I'm supposed to let it scoot around the dash. It sounds like taking the handgun into the restaurant is a gray line unless you draw attention to oneself by asking permission to carry in the establishment. Or unless you're asked not to, assume it's OK.

Are y'all fans of GRNC?

so welcome to the forum, so are you interested in OC'g or CC'g?

if the former, you will discern a wealth of information on this site. if the latter, then even after class you will still be equally confused!!

and to answer your question...NO not in the least ~ much to do about nothing.

ipse

oh sorry...put it on the seat next to you...or on your side where it belongs in the first place...just remember if stopped to tell the nice LE you have one on your hip...
 
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XD40sc

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Mar 31, 2013
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402
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NC
n00b here.

Looking over at 2A Friendly, it says places like Olive Garden are OK. However, they serve alcoholic drinks, and obviously, people consume them there.

But the NC flier states:


So those restaurants really aren't 2A friendly, correct?

It is not the restaurant, but how the law was written.
 

BBGun

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Raleigh
so welcome to the forum, so are you interested in OC'g or CC'g?

if the former, you will discern a wealth of information on this site. if the latter, then even after class you will still be equally confused!!

Thank you. I like the idea of OC, which is why I'm trying to find out where I can & can't go. I'm kinda nervous about it.

I was told if I wanted to keep buying handguns, I should get my CHP to save duplicate paperwork each time. Also, if I can go more places concealed, that's a bonus, right?


and to answer your question...NO not in the least ~ much to do about nothing.

I was on their site last night & signed up for their email blasts. I was wanting more information before giving them any money.


oh sorry...put it on the seat next to you...or on your side where it belongs in the first place...just remember if stopped to tell the nice LE you have one on your hip...

I'm driving a wheelchair conversion minivan. No passenger seat as that is where my wife sits in her chair. I'm not sure about the holster that came with my Sig; I'm concerned it will fall out. https://gunsmagazine.com/exclusive-sig-sauer-paddle-holster/
 

dmatting

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May 25, 2011
Messages
445
Location
Durham, NC
Thank you. I like the idea of OC, which is why I'm trying to find out where I can & can't go. I'm kinda nervous about it.

I was told if I wanted to keep buying handguns, I should get my CHP to save duplicate paperwork each time. Also, if I can go more places concealed, that's a bonus, right?




I was on their site last night & signed up for their email blasts. I was wanting more information before giving them any money.




I'm driving a wheelchair conversion minivan. No passenger seat as that is where my wife sits in her chair. I'm not sure about the holster that came with my Sig; I'm concerned it will fall out. https://gunsmagazine.com/exclusive-sig-sauer-paddle-holster/
My advice would be to take a step back and relax... understand that many, many people OC in this state without any hassles whatsoever.

Next, you should seriously consider purchasing a retention holster. Personally, I use a Serpa. I also know that the Safariland ALS is well liked. There are others, I am sure. Proper equipment and due diligence in training with that equipment is very important.

You can carry your holstered pistol while driving. If stopped, it's up to you whether you notify or not, I don't see how it can hurt but I don't like saying much to cops for any reason, but that is a thread of another color.

Before you start worrying about carrying in a place that serves alcohol, go other places. Get your feet wet and just OC. There is nothing better than that for increasing your confidence. I was there, too, as were many... its a conditioned mindset that makes you nervous about OCing and the way to overcome it is to do it. If you really need to go to a restaurant, there are plenty out there that do not serve alcohol. Golden Corral and all the fast food joints are perfectly legal. If any are posted, then it is a store policy and I would suggest you spend your money at a different establishment.

Another good way to break your OC cherry is to organize an OC lunch. Post a thread in here where you will be eating and at what time and someone or someones from this group may show up.

Just relax and go in from the shallow end, the water really isn't that cold.
 

solus

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here nc
Thank you. I like the idea of OC, which is why I'm trying to find out where I can & can't go. I'm kinda nervous about it.

I was told if I wanted to keep buying handguns, I should get my CHP to save duplicate paperwork each time. Also, if I can go more places concealed, that's a bonus, right?

(for the $70 course cost plus $80 sheriffs fees you can buy a lot of $5 PPPs which last for 5 years? you actually can go more OC'g if you have the stuff men are made of walking into the police stations OC'g, me is a wussie so don't wish to test the waters so to speak)


I was on their site last night & signed up for their email blasts. I was wanting more information before giving them any money.

(oh thank heavens you had a moment of clarity...good choice...look at their purported accomplishments...'we passed legislation, (not the NC legislature) as well as search for and critically read the olde thread under NC from oh late 13 out here where the president and one of the directors of grnc flat out stated, let's see...quote: grnc was only for sane, sober, and law biding... unquote)

I'm driving a wheelchair conversion minivan. No passenger seat as that is where my wife sits in her chair. I'm not sure about the holster that came with my Sig; I'm concerned it will fall out. https://gunsmagazine.com/exclusive-sig-sauer-paddle-holster/

(go check out the holster thread...most have boxes of holsters which are accumulated over our years of carrying as they fall out of favor for newer, or better suited accessories)

some even modify holsters for the shoulder strap of their seatbelt.

pm inbound before the day is out.

ipse
 

solus

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here nc
I don't read 14-269.3 (3) as allowing just any carry in a restaurant without a permit with the permission of the owner. 14-269.3 covers two separate situations. The first situation is "any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" and the second situation is "any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed." You are eating dinner in Olive Garden. What "event" are you a participate in? Is going to a movie and stopping for dinner at Olive Garden on the way home "an event" and is the manager on duty the "person or organization sponsoring the event" since they are not the owner or lessee? It would seem that "participating in the event" means "an assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" - and then are spectators/audience considered as "participating in the event"?

To me it would seem like (3) would apply, for example, at a rodeo where an admission fee is charged and a participant in the rodeo wanted to carry. A person in the audience watching the rodeo would be pretty grey - are they "participating" in the event? Eating dinner at Applebees would be much more toward the black side because is that considered any event at all?

Also notice that (3) says "A person participating in THE event" - not just any old event will suffice - it has to be THE event which would seem to indicate that it applies on to THE "assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" and not to THE Olive Garden where you happen to be eating dinner that night.

stepping back,
raisinets & cherry slurpy in hand watching the main arena

big top.jpg


ipse
 

WalkingWolf

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I don't read 14-269.3 (3) as allowing just any carry in a restaurant without a permit with the permission of the owner. 14-269.3 covers two separate situations. The first situation is "any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" and the second situation is "any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed." You are eating dinner in Olive Garden. What "event" are you a participate in? Is going to a movie and stopping for dinner at Olive Garden on the way home "an event" and is the manager on duty the "person or organization sponsoring the event" since they are not the owner or lessee? It would seem that "participating in the event" means "an assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" - and then are spectators/audience considered as "participating in the event"?

To me it would seem like (3) would apply, for example, at a rodeo where an admission fee is charged and a participant in the rodeo wanted to carry. A person in the audience watching the rodeo would be pretty grey - are they "participating" in the event? Eating dinner at Applebees would be much more toward the black side because is that considered any event at all?

Also notice that (3) says "A person participating in THE event" - not just any old event will suffice - it has to be THE event which would seem to indicate that it applies on to THE "assembly where a fee has been charged for admission" and not to THE Olive Garden where you happen to be eating dinner that night.

Event is not defined in NC statutes so it takes the common meaning. Eating is an event. Webster dictionary lists "a social occasion, or activity" which eating/dinner/lunch/breakfast is clearly a social activity.

GRNC tried to have it removed when they pushed the restaurant bill, but because of gun shows the general assembly refused and it remained. Somewhere there is necro thread where it was discussed. Both the police, and the Hillsborough SA stated it was legal, when one of our members set up a meet and great in a restaurant that served alcohol.
 

carolina guy

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Concord, NC
Event is not defined in NC statutes so it takes the common meaning. Eating is an event. Webster dictionary lists "a social occasion, or activity" which eating/dinner/lunch/breakfast is clearly a social activity.

GRNC tried to have it removed when they pushed the restaurant bill, but because of gun shows the general assembly refused and it remained. Somewhere there is necro thread where it was discussed. Both the police, and the Hillsborough SA stated it was legal, when one of our members set up a meet and great in a restaurant that served alcohol.

With our young children, being able to eat in ANY grown-up establishment that doesn't have a clown or a drive-through is an "event" in and of itself. ;-)
 
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