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Thread: Transplant to Appleton WI from Colorado

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    Transplant to Appleton WI from Colorado

    Howdy all, just got moved up here for new work and plan to be here for quite a while. I have been reading the threads about OC and some CC but still have a few questions.

    From my understanding, being in a vehicle and having a OC "hidden" by a console on my right hip is not legal without a CCL. I dont really want to have to unholster/holster every time i get in and out of my vehicle...

    Also i heard that if entering an establishment with a "no guns" signage can lead to a felony if caught?

    Does signage have weight of law or is it if asked to leave you must comply or get trespassed? (still not good)

    I do understand to stay away from schools with no CCL.

    Not sure if WI is a must notify state (inform LEO that im CCing or OCing during a traffic stop for example)

    Trying to find OC events near here and willing to do a weekly thing if anyone is open for it.

    I have OC'd and CC'd in colorado for a few years so im comfortable there and with knowing their laws. I need to understand Wisconsins laws before wandering around. I do miss OCing though. I will still do more research to answer my questions but any direct answers will help. I will be looking at the tips thread i saw. I need to get my WI driver license then apply for WI CCL (my colorado is still valid/not expired) but i dont want to waste time.

    Thanks for the replies ladies and gents!

    Randy
    Last edited by dieselpwr77; 07-24-2015 at 10:11 PM.

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    Well you're in luck. Seems there is an event by you.

    Well lets see. You cannot carry in a library for one due to an illegal statute. But WI law does allow you to OC without a permit. I would be careful though as Appleton cops have a bad reputation for excessive force. Enough to make even myself who is infamous for a hardline stance, realise I would need to take it easy if I ever moved there. Even the slogan says a lot. "Fighting Crime ... Solving Problems" Nothing about serving the public - which they don't.

    No gun signs do have the force of all in Wisconsin, though I don't think it's a felony. Schools as far as I know is a no-go without a permit. I'm not sure the perimeter limit. Just that it's a federal 'law' that the 2A nullifies. You will however be persecuted and assaulted for exercising your right to bear arms there. Oh and join Copblock. They have a local chapter in the city
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselpwr77 View Post
    Also i heard that if entering an establishment with a "no guns" signage can lead to a felony if caught?
    If by establishment you're talking about a private business that is not a school then the answer is a resounding "no".

    If even prosecuted it's a state forfeiture. If the locals have adopted it it's an ordinance violation. Neither of which is even a crime under Wisconsin law. Only felonies and misdemeanors are considered actual crimes in his state. Which means if you're tagged for it as long as you pay the fine you can't be sentenced to jail for it and you won't have a "criminal" record.

    I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.

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    i need to get my ccl as i dont like interacting with bad cops...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    A CCL is not enough to preclude non-consensual interactions with cops.

    There is a sub-text here on OCDO, in general, of recommendations on how to deal with cops.

    There is also http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

    (6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc). NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!!

    Unfortunately they are not required to identify themselves as protected class members.
    im dont understand your post, did i attack someone?


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    and i meant to get my ccl so i can CC and or OC when needed


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I note your username.

    I have just purchased my fourth diesel powered vehicle. The first was a 2000 VW NB TDI. Then a 2003 VW TDI Jetta Wagen that was still giving 50 mpg when I sold it three months ago. I have a Ford-New Holland 2910. Our latest is the 2012 CPO BMW X5 xDrive 35d Behemoth, beautiful and luxurious but I'll never see 50 mpg again!
    i have a dodge cummins 4x4


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    No, and neither did I. But there are cops on OCDO that post in controversy. Just a friendly word of caution, that everything may not be as it seems.

    The best source of information is the statutes and the DoJ FAQ.
    oh yeah ive dealt with soft people on here before, if they get offended than oh well. fact is fact

    i did read more from a link rich post and got good info from it.

    i never had a negative encounter with anyone or LEO in colorado. we will see what happens in appleton! im no showboater btw i keep to myself and am polite. i carry responsibly.


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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Well you're in luck. Seems there is an event by you.

    Well lets see. You cannot carry in a library for one due to an illegal statute. But WI law does allow you to OC without a permit. I would be careful though as Appleton cops have a bad reputation for excessive force. Enough to make even myself who is infamous for a hardline stance, realise I would need to take it easy if I ever moved there. Even the slogan says a lot. "Fighting Crime ... Solving Problems" Nothing about serving the public - which they don't.

    No gun signs do have the force of all in Wisconsin, though I don't think it's a felony. Schools as far as I know is a no-go without a permit. I'm not sure the perimeter limit. Just that it's a federal 'law' that the 2A nullifies. You will however be persecuted and assaulted for exercising your right to bear arms there. Oh and join Copblock. They have a local chapter in the city

    lol i posted that event to see if anyone wanted to meet and greet



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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    If by establishment you're talking about a private business that is not a school then the answer is a resounding "no".

    If even prosecuted it's a state forfeiture. If the locals have adopted it it's an ordinance violation. Neither of which is even a crime under Wisconsin law. Only felonies and misdemeanors are considered actual crimes in his state. Which means if you're tagged for it as long as you pay the fine you can't be sentenced to jail for it and you won't have a "criminal" record.

    I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.
    should have clarified the example sry, if you were concealed and still entered a store for example with a no gun sign and were found to be carrying conceal i heard its a felony. being that signs have weight of law its different than colorado.

    and yes if asked to leave you must comply or be trespassed.


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    OWelcome to Wisconsin! I'm 2-3 hours Northwest of you.

    A couple of things, but most importantly, your CO permit does you no good ONCE you become a resident of Wisconsin. You can open carry without a permit whether a resident of not. Requirements for permits are fairly easy here. A Hunter Safety course 30 years ago will suffice, and your CO permit will most likely be all you need to have/do to get a WI Concealed Carry License. CCL. I'm not sure if WI recognizes CO or not, didn't look it up. We recognize more than recognize ours tho.

    Signs carry the weight of law. If you miss one and are asked to leave you should leave immediately. Drop any intended purchases on the spot and head out the door.

    You do NOT have to inform in a traffic stop. Generally, I have been asked if I have a weapon, and I do not lie about it if asked.

    The WI DOJ has a very good FAQ on Act 35 where they go through the law and answer a lot of questions one might have. Not every question, but many. Less on open carry than concealed, but worth the read. Search WI DOJ Act 35 FAQ, I don't know how to link from my phone.

    Basically, with the exceptions of courthouses, police stations, jails, and schools, ( a few others) you can open carry ( or conceal with a Lic), anywhere there is not a no gun sign. If asked to leave private property, you have to leave. State has total preemption over gun laws. Probably less no gun signs the farther north you go, very few up here. But, you kind of need to look before you walk into a new place.

    You can carry into an airport up to the security checkpoint. Just helped some LE learn about this a couple of weeks ago. You can carry into special events such as fairs and concerts unless they have designated access points and are prominently signed as no guns. You will most likely be talked to however by security, and they may not know th law, is my experience.

    You're gonna miss the mountains, tho we do have Rib Mountain. Maybe it's called Granite Peak now, but either way, not a mountain! There are no cities, or towns that have separate, more restrictive laws than the state, like CO to worry about. Overall, I think WI has pretty good gun laws compared to most states, but we don't seem to get the love? If you don't value open carry, then we might get knocked down a few spots, I suppose. I get quite a few questions and positive comments, 4 negative ones in over four years daily OC. As I said, I'm way up north and I suspect that makes some difference, tho we do get a lot of tourists up here.

    Exception: Madison city owned buildings, buses, park shelters, etc are all no guns allowed, I THINK. You can carry in the city, just limited on which buildings you can go into. In my opinion, this is illegal, but they will get away with it until it goes to court. You will find an abundance of no gun signs in Madison, there's really no reason to go there anyway. Those of us up north consider the southern 1/3 of the state to be part of Illinois!!!! Haha
    Last edited by Wstar425; 07-25-2015 at 09:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/sites/def...cw/ccw-faq.pdf

    One may beat the rap, but you will not beat the ride.
    Thanks!! I have problems deciphering the law as they write it. I thought that touched on 95 percent of my questions.

    Even the police don't know all the laws as evidenced by my encounter at the Wausau Balloon and RibFest. Classic was the Lt.'s line. "There are lots of laws, we can't know them all." Going to Lincoln County Fair today and expecting to be talked to. As long as no signs at entrance, planning to walk in OC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wstar425 View Post
    OWelcome to Wisconsin! I'm 2-3 hours Northwest of you.

    A couple of things, but most importantly, your CO permit does you no good ONCE you become a resident of Wisconsin. You can open carry without a permit whether a resident of not. Requirements for permits are fairly easy here. A Hunter Safety course 30 years ago will suffice, and your CO permit will most likely be all you need to have/do to get a WI Concealed Carry License. CCL. I'm not sure if WI recognizes CO or not, didn't look it up. We recognize more than recognize ours tho.

    Signs carry the weight of law. If you miss one and are asked to leave you should leave immediately. Drop any intended purchases on the spot and head out the door.

    You do NOT have to inform in a traffic stop. Generally, I have been asked if I have a weapon, and I do not lie about it if asked.

    The WI DOJ has a very good FAQ on Act 35 where they go through the law and answer a lot of questions one might have. Not every question, but many. Less on open carry than concealed, but worth the read. Search WI DOJ Act 35 FAQ, I don't know how to link from my phone.

    Basically, with the exceptions of courthouses, police stations, jails, and schools, ( a few others) you can open carry ( or conceal with a Lic), anywhere there is not a no gun sign. If asked to leave private property, you have to leave. State has total preemption over gun laws. Probably less no gun signs the farther north you go, very few up here. But, you kind of need to look before you walk into a new place.

    You can carry into an airport up to the security checkpoint. Just helped some LE learn about this a couple of weeks ago. You can carry into special events such as fairs and concerts unless they have designated access points and are prominently signed as no guns. You will most likely be talked to however by security, and they may not know th law, is my experience.

    You're gonna miss the mountains, tho we do have Rib Mountain. Maybe it's called Granite Peak now, but either way, not a mountain! There are no cities, or towns that have separate, more restrictive laws than the state, like CO to worry about. Overall, I think WI has pretty good gun laws compared to most states, but we don't seem to get the love? If you don't value open carry, then we might get knocked down a few spots, I suppose. I get quite a few questions and positive comments, 4 negative ones in over four years daily OC. As I said, I'm way up north and I suspect that makes some difference, tho we do get a lot of tourists up here.

    Exception: Madison city owned buildings, buses, park shelters, etc are all no guns allowed, I THINK. You can carry in the city, just limited on which buildings you can go into. In my opinion, this is illegal, but they will get away with it until it goes to court. You will find an abundance of no gun signs in Madison, there's really no reason to go there anyway. Those of us up north consider the southern 1/3 of the state to be part of Illinois!!!! Haha
    Thank you for the info! the nogo places are pretty much universal, if i plan on visiting any of them i just wont carry.

    I still have my colorado driver license and conceal permit, i need to get the paperwork started for the wisconsin CCL and driver license. Do i need the DL first to get the CCL?

    I do value OC and prefer it to CC as being a big guy its more comfortable. Any encounter i have with anyone in the past or future has and will be met with civility until said individual wanting paperwork or info on me becomes a bully, thats when i clam up and just stare while recording.

    I definitely am not one of the attention seekers and prefer not to get attention. in my time of OC in colorado (of which i already miss but will be back) ive only had perhaps 7 good encounters with other folks and they asked good questions and i educated them with facts. Ive never had any LEO encounters but i think that is because i conduct myself well in public and dont go anywhere i dont need to be.

    I do plan on making field trips to explore the state and hopefully be able to meet other OCers around!


    one thing that is still fuzzy to me and even after reading the statutes (which are cryptic to me) im still unclear about how to OC when driving without a CCL.
    Also if asked for ID's do i have to comply?
    Last edited by dieselpwr77; 07-25-2015 at 10:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselpwr77 View Post
    if you were concealed and still entered a store for example with a no gun sign and were found to be carrying conceal i heard its a felony.
    Nope. Carrying concealed without a CCL is a crime but it's a misdemeanor, not a felony. Can get you 9 months and 10K fine though. But it you won't be a felon.

    I've been to 2 training seminars in which both the Attorney General (at the time) and the Assistant Attorney General said open carry without a CCL in a vehicle is legal and then gave examples of what they would consider open carry in a vehicle.

    But a user on these boards is now going to post about a court ruling that was made before the law was changed. I contend that a ruling on a law that is no longer the law has no effect. He disagrees.

    As always, I am not a lawyer, none of this was legal advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    Nope. Carrying concealed without a CCL is a crime but it's a misdemeanor, not a felony. Can get you 9 months and 10K fine though. But it you won't be a felon.

    I've been to 2 training seminars in which both the Attorney General (at the time) and the Assistant Attorney General said open carry without a CCL in a vehicle is legal and then gave examples of what they would consider open carry in a vehicle.

    But a user on these boards is now going to post about a court ruling that was made before the law was changed. I contend that a ruling on a law that is no longer the law has no effect. He disagrees.

    As always, I am not a lawyer, none of this was legal advice.
    sorry, if one had a CCL and entered a store knowingly that had a no gun sign posted, if caught is this a felony. (i forget to be specific lol)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    If you are not performing an action that requires license from the state, notably driving, no.

    There is no requirement to have identification papers on your person. Not yet anyway.

    If you are in a consensual conversation with a cop and he asks who you are, then answer him or not as you wish. Do not lie.

    If he asks for identification papers (Papieren, Bitte!), then walk away. If you are non-consensually detained arrested, then invoke your Fifth Amendment Right and KYBMS. The cop will search you as you have lost some rights, particularly the Fourth Amendment. Don't cooperate, don't resist.

    Don't confuse identification with identification-papers. Your person, papers, and effects are protected by the Fourth Amendment.
    exactly.

    i meant by papers, CCL or DL if one was CCing.

    but yes, if its consentual and the LEO is cool, i have no problem chit chatting and have done so in the past. Once he shows otherwise i clam up and record. (just got my bambuser set up again) yaay
    Last edited by dieselpwr77; 07-25-2015 at 11:24 AM.

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    i appreciate all the good replies and knowledge here, i will continue to read and such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    No, and neither did I. But there are cops on OCDO that post in controversy. Just a friendly word of caution, that everything may not be as it seems.

    The best source of information is the statutes and the DoJ FAQ.
    I'm sure. They need regular reminders that they have a constitution to uphold and not what they are told is law. Maybe eventually a few will get the message that it is a crime to uphold 99% of state gun laws. Just a thought and rather OT but can one make a citizen arrest for an oath violation? I may start a new thread in the law library if it gets interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by dieselpwr77 View Post
    lol i posted that event to see if anyone wanted to meet and greet
    oh..... whoops. I should say in my defense is was quite late for me. I just saw the thread and did a quick link copy.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

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    Wisconsin does NOT issue non resident conceal carry licenses. Once you become a Wisconsin resident, any other permits you may have are invalid for WI as you are a WI resident, and WI only honors resident permits for residents.That probably happens once you get a WI driver's license, but your residency may actually be before that if you did not do that asap.

    If you are driving and pulled over for a driving infraction, you need to present your driver's license when asked. You do NOT need to inform that you are armed.

    If I was asked to get out of the vehicle for some reason, I would PROBABLY inform the officer that I was armed.

    You CAN open carry in a vehicle without a permit, but your weapon needs to be visible from outside the vehicle. How you define THAT is probably open to interpretation, and anything short of hanging off the rear view mirror, could probably be argued as concealed. Personally, I think laying on the passenger seat or the dash would be open, but my opinion matters not. Conversely, in an OWB holster on your right hip that would undoubtably be open while standing, probably becomes concealed in my truck with a big center console. I have my CCL for driving and I'm open carry until I get in my vehicle whereupon I then consider myself concealed. I don't really see a firearm loose on the seat or the dash to be particularly safe.

    Read thru the linked FAQ, it answers a lot of common questions. And you are correct, trying to read the law is very confusing. In a lot of cases they struck down some illegal things and you soon find yourself chasing your tail. At least I do.
    Last edited by Wstar425; 07-25-2015 at 05:50 PM.

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    One of your first explores should be up to Door County. Not too far from you, it could be a day trip easy enough. The lakeshore towns on Michigan and Superior have a lot of cool things if you are from an area without big water, such as CO. The Apostle islands are unique, and Bayfield is a quaint little town, probably a weekend for you from Appleton. Wisconsin has a lot to see and do, but mountains isn't one of them. Oh yeah, it's mandatory that all new residents convert to Packer Fans immediately, if not sooner!!! Haha

    Southwestern Wisconsin west of Madison and south of the Interstate is beautiful in the fall especially, rolling hills and bluffs mixed with small farms and red barns. I've lived several different places in the state, and if it's a paved road, I've probably been on it. The center of the state is mostly flat, not a lot of water, lots of farms and mostly straight roads. Best stuff is around the edges in my opinion.

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    [QUOTE=Wstar425;2153769]

    You CAN open carry in a vehicle without a permit, but your weapon needs to be visible from outside the vehicle.

    I would not risk it unless you wanted to challenge that unconstitutional infringement. There was a ruling on that I read but for the life of me, I can't find it. For now I suggest you either pay the bribe money demanded by the state to exercise a right you already have. Unless you've got a ton of money, in which case take no notice and try to fight the government. Best of luck though, you'll need it
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    [QUOTE=rightwinglibertarian;2153772]
    Quote Originally Posted by Wstar425 View Post

    You CAN open carry in a vehicle without a permit, but your weapon needs to be visible from outside the vehicle.

    I would not risk it unless you wanted to challenge that unconstitutional infringement. There was a ruling on that I read but for the life of me, I can't find it. For now I suggest you either pay the bribe money demanded by the state to exercise a right you already have. Unless you've got a ton of money, in which case take no notice and try to fight the government. Best of luck though, you'll need it
    Why would you cut and paste one sentence out of my post when the rest of the paragraph said basically exactly what you said? I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing? I could cut and paste words out of any post here and make it say anything I wanted to.

    You can open carry without a license, loaded in a car, truck, boat, motorcycle, lawn mower, bicycle, even a personal aircraft in Wisconsin. The wisdom of doing that in a car on the highway is up for debate, for sure. I have done all of the above! Look on page 44 of the links FAQ.

    To the OP, start reading the DOJ FAQ at the bottom of page 21. Page numbers are at the bottom of the page and NOT the numbers generated by the browser. The first 21 pages are the index and then rules regarding law enforcement officers.

    OC vs CC page 28
    Schools page 32-36
    Signs page 38
    Prohibited places page 40
    TRANSPORTING page 44

    I read through this every once in a while when I am bored and lonely. It's kinda dry, but it is understandable. Sadly, they don't link to any citations in the actual law, but it is put out by the WI DOJ so I suppose it is about as close as you can get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    This one, cited above?


    190 Wis.2d 65 (1994)
    526 N.W.2d 765
    STATE of Wisconsin, Plaintiff-Respondent,
    v.
    Andre Tony WALLS, Defendant-Appellant.[]
    No. 93-2984-CR-FT.

    Court of Appeals of Wisconsin.
    Submitted on briefs August 2, 1994.
    Decided December 6, 1994.

    https://scholar.google.com/scholar_c...=4,50&as_vis=1


    A recent notorious application covered by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
    http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwauk...134337568.html

    One may beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride.

    thats the one. though the ruling is laughable.

    Gun-rights activist Krysta Sutterfield was charged Tuesday with carrying a concealed weapon for wearing a holstered gun under her jacket as she used the wireless Internet connection outside the Sherman Perk Coffee Shop late at night, according to a criminal complaint.

    If convicted of the misdemeanor charge, Sutterfield, 42, faces a maximum penalty of nine months in jail and a fine of $10,000.

    So yea, pay us the bribe money to exercise a right you already have or you'll be kidnapped, hauled in front of a judge who doesnt care about you or the law and get $10,000 extorted from you. Well I guess there is nothing we can say about mexican gangs and even U.S gangs. The country is run by them. Members include judges, police, SCOTUS and and of course the commie in the White House. Oh snap, did I just post all that? Oh well, truth hurts :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselpwr77 View Post
    sorry, if one had a CCL and entered a store knowingly that had a no gun sign posted, if caught is this a felony. (i forget to be specific lol)
    Nope. It's a state forfeiture or ordinance violation if adopted by the local municipality. Neither of which are considered crimes in this state.

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    From early 2011 to Dec 2014 I put somewhere around 600,000 miles on a 16 liter Cat Diesel. 600 horse, 2050 lbs/ft of torque it was a dream to drive. It would pass anything but a fuel pump. C-16 bulldozer motor in a 2001 KW W900L. I miss that thing! Last of the large cars.

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