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Thread: Transplant to Appleton WI from Colorado

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    Transplant to Appleton WI from Colorado

    Howdy all, just got moved up here for new work and plan to be here for quite a while. I have been reading the threads about OC and some CC but still have a few questions.

    From my understanding, being in a vehicle and having a OC "hidden" by a console on my right hip is not legal without a CCL. I dont really want to have to unholster/holster every time i get in and out of my vehicle...

    Also i heard that if entering an establishment with a "no guns" signage can lead to a felony if caught?

    Does signage have weight of law or is it if asked to leave you must comply or get trespassed? (still not good)

    I do understand to stay away from schools with no CCL.

    Not sure if WI is a must notify state (inform LEO that im CCing or OCing during a traffic stop for example)

    Trying to find OC events near here and willing to do a weekly thing if anyone is open for it.

    I have OC'd and CC'd in colorado for a few years so im comfortable there and with knowing their laws. I need to understand Wisconsins laws before wandering around. I do miss OCing though. I will still do more research to answer my questions but any direct answers will help. I will be looking at the tips thread i saw. I need to get my WI driver license then apply for WI CCL (my colorado is still valid/not expired) but i dont want to waste time.

    Thanks for the replies ladies and gents!

    Randy
    Last edited by dieselpwr77; 07-24-2015 at 11:11 PM.

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    Well you're in luck. Seems there is an event by you.

    Well lets see. You cannot carry in a library for one due to an illegal statute. But WI law does allow you to OC without a permit. I would be careful though as Appleton cops have a bad reputation for excessive force. Enough to make even myself who is infamous for a hardline stance, realise I would need to take it easy if I ever moved there. Even the slogan says a lot. "Fighting Crime ... Solving Problems" Nothing about serving the public - which they don't.

    No gun signs do have the force of all in Wisconsin, though I don't think it's a felony. Schools as far as I know is a no-go without a permit. I'm not sure the perimeter limit. Just that it's a federal 'law' that the 2A nullifies. You will however be persecuted and assaulted for exercising your right to bear arms there. Oh and join Copblock. They have a local chapter in the city
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    Welcome to Wisconsin and OCDO-Wisconsin.

    The gun laws/statutes are here http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/prefaces/toc The Table of Contents, with a search box in the upper right.

    Chapter 941 Sub-chapter III covers weapons crimes, including notably 941.23 Concealed weapons, and

    941.23(2) Any person, other than one of the following, who carries a concealed and dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor:

    Wisconsin lists case law as annotations to the statutes

    To "go armed" does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant's person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon's presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden. State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).

    A handgun on the seat of a car that was indiscernible from ordinary observation by a person outside, and within the immediate vicinity, of the vehicle was hidden from view for purposes of determining whether the gun was a concealed weapon under this section. State v. Walls, 190 Wis. 2d 65, 526 N.W.2d 765 (Ct. App. 1994).
    Chapter 175 Sub-section 175.60 is the Concealed Carry Licensing statute
    http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/docu...tatutes/175.60

    Regulated by the DoJ by rules, here
    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/...oncealed-carry, drilling down, http://www.doj.state.wi.us/sites/def...cw/ccw-faq.pdf

    and by the DNR
    http://dnr.wi.gov/emergency/concealedcarry.html
    http://dnr.wi.gov/emergency/document...Wis_ACT_51.pdf

    Wisconsin is a traditional and lightly regulated open carry state. The bulk of the open carry restrictions are at Chapter 941 Subchapter III cited above.

    941.237  Carrying handgun where alcohol beverages may be sold and consumed.
    (2) Whoever intentionally goes armed with a handgun on any premises for which a Class "B" or "Class B" license or permit has been issued under ch. 125 is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
    (3) Subsection (2) does not apply to any of the following:
    (cx) A licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g), if the licensee or out-of-state licensee is not consuming alcohol on the premises.

    943.13  Trespass to land. http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/docu...tatutes/943.13

    Trespass to land is is rather extensive, with a number of paragraphs referring to firearms. It also contains the signage requirements.

    The notification requirement is in 175.60 (2g) Carrying a concealed weapon; possession and display of license document or authorization. (c) Unless the licensee or out-of-state licensee is carrying a concealed weapon in a manner described under s. 941.23 (2) (e), a licensee who is carrying a concealed weapon shall display his or her license document and photographic identification card and an out-of-state licensee who is carrying a concealed weapon shall display his or her out-of-state license and photographic identification card to a law enforcement officer upon the request of the law enforcement officer while the law enforcement officer is acting in an official capacity and with lawful authority.

    941.235  Carrying firearm in public building.
    (1) Any person who goes armed with a firearm in any building owned or leased by the state or any political subdivision of the state is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

    And finally, the source of much discomfiture, our state preemption of firearms laws.
    http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/stat...tes/66/IV/0409
    (2) Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision may enact an ordinance or adopt a resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, unless the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-25-2015 at 07:18 AM.
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    I note your username.

    I have just purchased my fourth diesel powered vehicle. The first was a 2000 VW NB TDI. Then a 2003 VW TDI Jetta Wagen that was still giving 50 mpg when I sold it three months ago. I have a Ford-New Holland 2910. Our latest is the 2012 CPO BMW X5 xDrive 35d Behemoth, beautiful and luxurious but I'll never see 50 mpg again!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselpwr77 View Post
    Also i heard that if entering an establishment with a "no guns" signage can lead to a felony if caught?
    If by establishment you're talking about a private business that is not a school then the answer is a resounding "no".

    If even prosecuted it's a state forfeiture. If the locals have adopted it it's an ordinance violation. Neither of which is even a crime under Wisconsin law. Only felonies and misdemeanors are considered actual crimes in his state. Which means if you're tagged for it as long as you pay the fine you can't be sentenced to jail for it and you won't have a "criminal" record.

    I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.

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    i need to get my ccl as i dont like interacting with bad cops...


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    A CCL is not enough to preclude non-consensual interactions with cops.

    There is a sub-text here on OCDO, in general, of recommendations on how to deal with cops.

    There is also http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

    (6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc). NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!!

    Unfortunately they are not required to identify themselves as protected class members.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    A CCL is not enough to preclude non-consensual interactions with cops.

    There is a sub-text here on OCDO, in general, of recommendations on how to deal with cops.

    There is also http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

    (6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc). NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!!

    Unfortunately they are not required to identify themselves as protected class members.
    im dont understand your post, did i attack someone?


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    and i meant to get my ccl so i can CC and or OC when needed


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I note your username.

    I have just purchased my fourth diesel powered vehicle. The first was a 2000 VW NB TDI. Then a 2003 VW TDI Jetta Wagen that was still giving 50 mpg when I sold it three months ago. I have a Ford-New Holland 2910. Our latest is the 2012 CPO BMW X5 xDrive 35d Behemoth, beautiful and luxurious but I'll never see 50 mpg again!
    i have a dodge cummins 4x4


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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselpwr77 View Post
    im dont understand your post, did i attack someone?
    No, and neither did I. But there are cops on OCDO that post in controversy. Just a friendly word of caution, that everything may not be as it seems.

    The best source of information is the statutes and the DoJ FAQ.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    No, and neither did I. But there are cops on OCDO that post in controversy. Just a friendly word of caution, that everything may not be as it seems.

    The best source of information is the statutes and the DoJ FAQ.
    oh yeah ive dealt with soft people on here before, if they get offended than oh well. fact is fact

    i did read more from a link rich post and got good info from it.

    i never had a negative encounter with anyone or LEO in colorado. we will see what happens in appleton! im no showboater btw i keep to myself and am polite. i carry responsibly.


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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Well you're in luck. Seems there is an event by you.

    Well lets see. You cannot carry in a library for one due to an illegal statute. But WI law does allow you to OC without a permit. I would be careful though as Appleton cops have a bad reputation for excessive force. Enough to make even myself who is infamous for a hardline stance, realise I would need to take it easy if I ever moved there. Even the slogan says a lot. "Fighting Crime ... Solving Problems" Nothing about serving the public - which they don't.

    No gun signs do have the force of all in Wisconsin, though I don't think it's a felony. Schools as far as I know is a no-go without a permit. I'm not sure the perimeter limit. Just that it's a federal 'law' that the 2A nullifies. You will however be persecuted and assaulted for exercising your right to bear arms there. Oh and join Copblock. They have a local chapter in the city

    lol i posted that event to see if anyone wanted to meet and greet



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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselpwr77 View Post
    oh yeah ive dealt with soft people on here before, if they get offended than oh well. fact is fact

    i did read more from a link rich post and got good info from it.

    i never had a negative encounter with anyone or LEO in colorado. we will see what happens in appleton! im no showboater btw i keep to myself and am polite. i carry responsibly.


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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    If by establishment you're talking about a private business that is not a school then the answer is a resounding "no".

    If even prosecuted it's a state forfeiture. If the locals have adopted it it's an ordinance violation. Neither of which is even a crime under Wisconsin law. Only felonies and misdemeanors are considered actual crimes in his state. Which means if you're tagged for it as long as you pay the fine you can't be sentenced to jail for it and you won't have a "criminal" record.

    I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.
    should have clarified the example sry, if you were concealed and still entered a store for example with a no gun sign and were found to be carrying conceal i heard its a felony. being that signs have weight of law its different than colorado.

    and yes if asked to leave you must comply or be trespassed.


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    OWelcome to Wisconsin! I'm 2-3 hours Northwest of you.

    A couple of things, but most importantly, your CO permit does you no good ONCE you become a resident of Wisconsin. You can open carry without a permit whether a resident of not. Requirements for permits are fairly easy here. A Hunter Safety course 30 years ago will suffice, and your CO permit will most likely be all you need to have/do to get a WI Concealed Carry License. CCL. I'm not sure if WI recognizes CO or not, didn't look it up. We recognize more than recognize ours tho.

    Signs carry the weight of law. If you miss one and are asked to leave you should leave immediately. Drop any intended purchases on the spot and head out the door.

    You do NOT have to inform in a traffic stop. Generally, I have been asked if I have a weapon, and I do not lie about it if asked.

    The WI DOJ has a very good FAQ on Act 35 where they go through the law and answer a lot of questions one might have. Not every question, but many. Less on open carry than concealed, but worth the read. Search WI DOJ Act 35 FAQ, I don't know how to link from my phone.

    Basically, with the exceptions of courthouses, police stations, jails, and schools, ( a few others) you can open carry ( or conceal with a Lic), anywhere there is not a no gun sign. If asked to leave private property, you have to leave. State has total preemption over gun laws. Probably less no gun signs the farther north you go, very few up here. But, you kind of need to look before you walk into a new place.

    You can carry into an airport up to the security checkpoint. Just helped some LE learn about this a couple of weeks ago. You can carry into special events such as fairs and concerts unless they have designated access points and are prominently signed as no guns. You will most likely be talked to however by security, and they may not know th law, is my experience.

    You're gonna miss the mountains, tho we do have Rib Mountain. Maybe it's called Granite Peak now, but either way, not a mountain! There are no cities, or towns that have separate, more restrictive laws than the state, like CO to worry about. Overall, I think WI has pretty good gun laws compared to most states, but we don't seem to get the love? If you don't value open carry, then we might get knocked down a few spots, I suppose. I get quite a few questions and positive comments, 4 negative ones in over four years daily OC. As I said, I'm way up north and I suspect that makes some difference, tho we do get a lot of tourists up here.

    Exception: Madison city owned buildings, buses, park shelters, etc are all no guns allowed, I THINK. You can carry in the city, just limited on which buildings you can go into. In my opinion, this is illegal, but they will get away with it until it goes to court. You will find an abundance of no gun signs in Madison, there's really no reason to go there anyway. Those of us up north consider the southern 1/3 of the state to be part of Illinois!!!! Haha
    Last edited by Wstar425; 07-25-2015 at 10:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wstar425 View Post
    [ ... ] The WI DOJ has a very good FAQ on Act 35 where they go through the law and answer a lot of questions one might have. Not every question, but many. Less on open carry than concealed, but worth the read. Search WI DOJ Act 35 FAQ, I don't know how to link from my phone. [ ... ]
    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/sites/def...cw/ccw-faq.pdf

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    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-25-2015 at 10:46 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/sites/def...cw/ccw-faq.pdf

    One may beat the rap, but you will not beat the ride.
    Thanks!! I have problems deciphering the law as they write it. I thought that touched on 95 percent of my questions.

    Even the police don't know all the laws as evidenced by my encounter at the Wausau Balloon and RibFest. Classic was the Lt.'s line. "There are lots of laws, we can't know them all." Going to Lincoln County Fair today and expecting to be talked to. As long as no signs at entrance, planning to walk in OC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wstar425 View Post
    OWelcome to Wisconsin! I'm 2-3 hours Northwest of you.

    A couple of things, but most importantly, your CO permit does you no good ONCE you become a resident of Wisconsin. You can open carry without a permit whether a resident of not. Requirements for permits are fairly easy here. A Hunter Safety course 30 years ago will suffice, and your CO permit will most likely be all you need to have/do to get a WI Concealed Carry License. CCL. I'm not sure if WI recognizes CO or not, didn't look it up. We recognize more than recognize ours tho.

    Signs carry the weight of law. If you miss one and are asked to leave you should leave immediately. Drop any intended purchases on the spot and head out the door.

    You do NOT have to inform in a traffic stop. Generally, I have been asked if I have a weapon, and I do not lie about it if asked.

    The WI DOJ has a very good FAQ on Act 35 where they go through the law and answer a lot of questions one might have. Not every question, but many. Less on open carry than concealed, but worth the read. Search WI DOJ Act 35 FAQ, I don't know how to link from my phone.

    Basically, with the exceptions of courthouses, police stations, jails, and schools, ( a few others) you can open carry ( or conceal with a Lic), anywhere there is not a no gun sign. If asked to leave private property, you have to leave. State has total preemption over gun laws. Probably less no gun signs the farther north you go, very few up here. But, you kind of need to look before you walk into a new place.

    You can carry into an airport up to the security checkpoint. Just helped some LE learn about this a couple of weeks ago. You can carry into special events such as fairs and concerts unless they have designated access points and are prominently signed as no guns. You will most likely be talked to however by security, and they may not know th law, is my experience.

    You're gonna miss the mountains, tho we do have Rib Mountain. Maybe it's called Granite Peak now, but either way, not a mountain! There are no cities, or towns that have separate, more restrictive laws than the state, like CO to worry about. Overall, I think WI has pretty good gun laws compared to most states, but we don't seem to get the love? If you don't value open carry, then we might get knocked down a few spots, I suppose. I get quite a few questions and positive comments, 4 negative ones in over four years daily OC. As I said, I'm way up north and I suspect that makes some difference, tho we do get a lot of tourists up here.

    Exception: Madison city owned buildings, buses, park shelters, etc are all no guns allowed, I THINK. You can carry in the city, just limited on which buildings you can go into. In my opinion, this is illegal, but they will get away with it until it goes to court. You will find an abundance of no gun signs in Madison, there's really no reason to go there anyway. Those of us up north consider the southern 1/3 of the state to be part of Illinois!!!! Haha
    Thank you for the info! the nogo places are pretty much universal, if i plan on visiting any of them i just wont carry.

    I still have my colorado driver license and conceal permit, i need to get the paperwork started for the wisconsin CCL and driver license. Do i need the DL first to get the CCL?

    I do value OC and prefer it to CC as being a big guy its more comfortable. Any encounter i have with anyone in the past or future has and will be met with civility until said individual wanting paperwork or info on me becomes a bully, thats when i clam up and just stare while recording.

    I definitely am not one of the attention seekers and prefer not to get attention. in my time of OC in colorado (of which i already miss but will be back) ive only had perhaps 7 good encounters with other folks and they asked good questions and i educated them with facts. Ive never had any LEO encounters but i think that is because i conduct myself well in public and dont go anywhere i dont need to be.

    I do plan on making field trips to explore the state and hopefully be able to meet other OCers around!


    one thing that is still fuzzy to me and even after reading the statutes (which are cryptic to me) im still unclear about how to OC when driving without a CCL.
    Also if asked for ID's do i have to comply?
    Last edited by dieselpwr77; 07-25-2015 at 11:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselpwr77 View Post
    if you were concealed and still entered a store for example with a no gun sign and were found to be carrying conceal i heard its a felony.
    Nope. Carrying concealed without a CCL is a crime but it's a misdemeanor, not a felony. Can get you 9 months and 10K fine though. But it you won't be a felon.

    I've been to 2 training seminars in which both the Attorney General (at the time) and the Assistant Attorney General said open carry without a CCL in a vehicle is legal and then gave examples of what they would consider open carry in a vehicle.

    But a user on these boards is now going to post about a court ruling that was made before the law was changed. I contend that a ruling on a law that is no longer the law has no effect. He disagrees.

    As always, I am not a lawyer, none of this was legal advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselpwr77 View Post
    [ ... ]
    one thing that is still fuzzy to me and even after reading the statutes (which are cryptic to me) im still unclear about how to OC when driving without a CCL.

    Also if asked for ID's do i have to comply?
    If you are not performing an action that requires license from the state, notably driving, no.

    There is no requirement to have identification papers on your person. Not yet anyway.

    If you are in a consensual conversation with a cop and he asks who you are, then answer him or not as you wish. Do not lie.

    If he asks for identification papers (Papieren, Bitte!), then walk away. If you are non-consensually detained arrested, then invoke your Fifth Amendment Right and KYBMS. The cop will search you as you have lost some rights, particularly the Fourth Amendment. Don't cooperate, don't resist.

    Don't confuse identification with identification-papers. Your person, papers, and effects are protected by the Fourth Amendment.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-25-2015 at 11:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    Nope. Carrying concealed without a CCL is a crime but it's a misdemeanor, not a felony. Can get you 9 months and 10K fine though. But it you won't be a felon.

    I've been to 2 training seminars in which both the Attorney General (at the time) and the Assistant Attorney General said open carry without a CCL in a vehicle is legal and then gave examples of what they would consider open carry in a vehicle.

    But a user on these boards is now going to post about a court ruling that was made before the law was changed. I contend that a ruling on a law that is no longer the law has no effect. He disagrees.

    As always, I am not a lawyer, none of this was legal advice.
    sorry, if one had a CCL and entered a store knowingly that had a no gun sign posted, if caught is this a felony. (i forget to be specific lol)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    If you are not performing an action that requires license from the state, notably driving, no.

    There is no requirement to have identification papers on your person. Not yet anyway.

    If you are in a consensual conversation with a cop and he asks who you are, then answer him or not as you wish. Do not lie.

    If he asks for identification papers (Papieren, Bitte!), then walk away. If you are non-consensually detained arrested, then invoke your Fifth Amendment Right and KYBMS. The cop will search you as you have lost some rights, particularly the Fourth Amendment. Don't cooperate, don't resist.

    Don't confuse identification with identification-papers. Your person, papers, and effects are protected by the Fourth Amendment.
    exactly.

    i meant by papers, CCL or DL if one was CCing.

    but yes, if its consentual and the LEO is cool, i have no problem chit chatting and have done so in the past. Once he shows otherwise i clam up and record. (just got my bambuser set up again) yaay
    Last edited by dieselpwr77; 07-25-2015 at 12:24 PM.

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    i appreciate all the good replies and knowledge here, i will continue to read and such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    No, and neither did I. But there are cops on OCDO that post in controversy. Just a friendly word of caution, that everything may not be as it seems.

    The best source of information is the statutes and the DoJ FAQ.
    I'm sure. They need regular reminders that they have a constitution to uphold and not what they are told is law. Maybe eventually a few will get the message that it is a crime to uphold 99% of state gun laws. Just a thought and rather OT but can one make a citizen arrest for an oath violation? I may start a new thread in the law library if it gets interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by dieselpwr77 View Post
    lol i posted that event to see if anyone wanted to meet and greet
    oh..... whoops. I should say in my defense is was quite late for me. I just saw the thread and did a quick link copy.
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