Transplant to Appleton WI from Colorado

dieselpwr77 · Jul 24, 2015

Howdy all, just got moved up here for new work and plan to be here for quite a while. I have been reading the threads about OC and some CC but still have a few questions.

From my understanding, being in a vehicle and having a OC "hidden" by a console on my right hip is not legal without a CCL. I dont really want to have to unholster/holster every time i get in and out of my vehicle...

Also i heard that if entering an establishment with a "no guns" signage can lead to a felony if caught?

Does signage have weight of law or is it if asked to leave you must comply or get trespassed? (still not good)

I do understand to stay away from schools with no CCL.

Not sure if WI is a must notify state (inform LEO that im CCing or OCing during a traffic stop for example)

Trying to find OC events near here and willing to do a weekly thing if anyone is open for it.

I have OC'd and CC'd in colorado for a few years so im comfortable there and with knowing their laws. I need to understand Wisconsins laws before wandering around. I do miss OCing though. I will still do more research to answer my questions but any direct answers will help. I will be looking at the tips thread i saw. I need to get my WI driver license then apply for WI CCL (my colorado is still valid/not expired) but i dont want to waste time.

Thanks for the replies ladies and gents!

Randy

rightwinglibertarian · Jul 25, 2015

Well you're in luck. Seems there is an event by you.

Well lets see. You cannot carry in a library for one due to an illegal statute. But WI law does allow you to OC without a permit. I would be careful though as Appleton cops have a bad reputation for excessive force. Enough to make even myself who is infamous for a hardline stance, realise I would need to take it easy if I ever moved there. Even the slogan says a lot. "Fighting Crime ... Solving Problems" Nothing about serving the public - which they don't.

No gun signs do have the force of all in Wisconsin, though I don't think it's a felony. Schools as far as I know is a no-go without a permit. I'm not sure the perimeter limit. Just that it's a federal 'law' that the 2A nullifies. You will however be persecuted and assaulted for exercising your right to bear arms there. Oh and join Copblock. They have a local chapter in the city

pkbites · Jul 25, 2015

dieselpwr77 said:
Also i heard that if entering an establishment with a "no guns" signage can lead to a felony if caught?

If by establishment you're talking about a private business that is not a school then the answer is a resounding "no".

If even prosecuted it's a state forfeiture. If the locals have adopted it it's an ordinance violation. Neither of which is even a crime under Wisconsin law. Only felonies and misdemeanors are considered actual crimes in his state. Which means if you're tagged for it as long as you pay the fine you can't be sentenced to jail for it and you won't have a "criminal" record.

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.

dieselpwr77 · Jul 25, 2015

i need to get my ccl as i dont like interacting with bad cops...

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dieselpwr77 · Jul 25, 2015

Nightmare said:
A CCL is not enough to preclude non-consensual interactions with cops.

There is a sub-text here on OCDO, in general, of recommendations on how to deal with cops.

There is also http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

(6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc). NOTE THAT THIS RULE APPLIES TO PMs AS WELL AS FORUM POSTS!!!

Unfortunately they are not required to identify themselves as protected class members.

im dont understand your post, did i attack someone?

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dieselpwr77 · Jul 25, 2015

and i meant to get my ccl so i can CC and or OC when needed

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dieselpwr77 · Jul 25, 2015

Nightmare said:
I note your username.

I have just purchased my fourth diesel powered vehicle. The first was a 2000 VW NB TDI. Then a 2003 VW TDI Jetta Wagen that was still giving 50 mpg when I sold it three months ago. I have a Ford-New Holland 2910. Our latest is the 2012 CPO BMW X5 xDrive 35d Behemoth, beautiful and luxurious but I'll never see 50 mpg again!

i have a dodge cummins 4x4

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dieselpwr77 · Jul 25, 2015

Nightmare said:
No, and neither did I. But there are cops on OCDO that post in controversy. Just a friendly word of caution, that everything may not be as it seems.

The best source of information is the statutes and the DoJ FAQ.

oh yeah ive dealt with soft people on here before, if they get offended than oh well. fact is fact

i did read more from a link rich post and got good info from it.

i never had a negative encounter with anyone or LEO in colorado. we will see what happens in appleton! im no showboater btw i keep to myself and am polite. i carry responsibly.

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dieselpwr77 · Jul 25, 2015

rightwinglibertarian said:
Well you're in luck. Seems there is an event by you.

Well lets see. You cannot carry in a library for one due to an illegal statute. But WI law does allow you to OC without a permit. I would be careful though as Appleton cops have a bad reputation for excessive force. Enough to make even myself who is infamous for a hardline stance, realise I would need to take it easy if I ever moved there. Even the slogan says a lot. "Fighting Crime ... Solving Problems" Nothing about serving the public - which they don't.

No gun signs do have the force of all in Wisconsin, though I don't think it's a felony. Schools as far as I know is a no-go without a permit. I'm not sure the perimeter limit. Just that it's a federal 'law' that the 2A nullifies. You will however be persecuted and assaulted for exercising your right to bear arms there. Oh and join Copblock. They have a local chapter in the city

lol i posted that event to see if anyone wanted to meet and greet

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dieselpwr77 · Jul 25, 2015

pkbites said:
If by establishment you're talking about a private business that is not a school then the answer is a resounding "no".

If even prosecuted it's a state forfeiture. If the locals have adopted it it's an ordinance violation. Neither of which is even a crime under Wisconsin law. Only felonies and misdemeanors are considered actual crimes in his state. Which means if you're tagged for it as long as you pay the fine you can't be sentenced to jail for it and you won't have a "criminal" record.

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.

should have clarified the example sry, if you were concealed and still entered a store for example with a no gun sign and were found to be carrying conceal i heard its a felony. being that signs have weight of law its different than colorado.

and yes if asked to leave you must comply or be trespassed.

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Wstar425 · Jul 25, 2015

OWelcome to Wisconsin! I'm 2-3 hours Northwest of you.

A couple of things, but most importantly, your CO permit does you no good ONCE you become a resident of Wisconsin. You can open carry without a permit whether a resident of not. Requirements for permits are fairly easy here. A Hunter Safety course 30 years ago will suffice, and your CO permit will most likely be all you need to have/do to get a WI Concealed Carry License. CCL. I'm not sure if WI recognizes CO or not, didn't look it up. We recognize more than recognize ours tho.

Signs carry the weight of law. If you miss one and are asked to leave you should leave immediately. Drop any intended purchases on the spot and head out the door.

You do NOT have to inform in a traffic stop. Generally, I have been asked if I have a weapon, and I do not lie about it if asked.

The WI DOJ has a very good FAQ on Act 35 where they go through the law and answer a lot of questions one might have. Not every question, but many. Less on open carry than concealed, but worth the read. Search WI DOJ Act 35 FAQ, I don't know how to link from my phone.

Basically, with the exceptions of courthouses, police stations, jails, and schools, ( a few others) you can open carry ( or conceal with a Lic), anywhere there is not a no gun sign. If asked to leave private property, you have to leave. State has total preemption over gun laws. Probably less no gun signs the farther north you go, very few up here. But, you kind of need to look before you walk into a new place.

You can carry into an airport up to the security checkpoint. Just helped some LE learn about this a couple of weeks ago. You can carry into special events such as fairs and concerts unless they have designated access points and are prominently signed as no guns. You will most likely be talked to however by security, and they may not know th law, is my experience.

You're gonna miss the mountains, tho we do have Rib Mountain. Maybe it's called Granite Peak now, but either way, not a mountain! There are no cities, or towns that have separate, more restrictive laws than the state, like CO to worry about. Overall, I think WI has pretty good gun laws compared to most states, but we don't seem to get the love? If you don't value open carry, then we might get knocked down a few spots, I suppose. I get quite a few questions and positive comments, 4 negative ones in over four years daily OC. As I said, I'm way up north and I suspect that makes some difference, tho we do get a lot of tourists up here.

Exception: Madison city owned buildings, buses, park shelters, etc are all no guns allowed, I THINK. You can carry in the city, just limited on which buildings you can go into. In my opinion, this is illegal, but they will get away with it until it goes to court. You will find an abundance of no gun signs in Madison, there's really no reason to go there anyway. Those of us up north consider the southern 1/3 of the state to be part of Illinois!!!! Haha

Wstar425 · Jul 25, 2015

Nightmare said:
http://www.doj.state.wi.us/sites/default/files/dles/ccw/ccw-faq.pdf

One may beat the rap, but you will not beat the ride.

Thanks!! I have problems deciphering the law as they write it. I thought that touched on 95 percent of my questions.

Even the police don't know all the laws as evidenced by my encounter at the Wausau Balloon and RibFest. Classic was the Lt.'s line. "There are lots of laws, we can't know them all." Going to Lincoln County Fair today and expecting to be talked to. As long as no signs at entrance, planning to walk in OC.

dieselpwr77 · Jul 25, 2015

Wstar425 said:
OWelcome to Wisconsin! I'm 2-3 hours Northwest of you.

A couple of things, but most importantly, your CO permit does you no good ONCE you become a resident of Wisconsin. You can open carry without a permit whether a resident of not. Requirements for permits are fairly easy here. A Hunter Safety course 30 years ago will suffice, and your CO permit will most likely be all you need to have/do to get a WI Concealed Carry License. CCL. I'm not sure if WI recognizes CO or not, didn't look it up. We recognize more than recognize ours tho.

Signs carry the weight of law. If you miss one and are asked to leave you should leave immediately. Drop any intended purchases on the spot and head out the door.

You do NOT have to inform in a traffic stop. Generally, I have been asked if I have a weapon, and I do not lie about it if asked.

The WI DOJ has a very good FAQ on Act 35 where they go through the law and answer a lot of questions one might have. Not every question, but many. Less on open carry than concealed, but worth the read. Search WI DOJ Act 35 FAQ, I don't know how to link from my phone.

Basically, with the exceptions of courthouses, police stations, jails, and schools, ( a few others) you can open carry ( or conceal with a Lic), anywhere there is not a no gun sign. If asked to leave private property, you have to leave. State has total preemption over gun laws. Probably less no gun signs the farther north you go, very few up here. But, you kind of need to look before you walk into a new place.

You can carry into an airport up to the security checkpoint. Just helped some LE learn about this a couple of weeks ago. You can carry into special events such as fairs and concerts unless they have designated access points and are prominently signed as no guns. You will most likely be talked to however by security, and they may not know th law, is my experience.

You're gonna miss the mountains, tho we do have Rib Mountain. Maybe it's called Granite Peak now, but either way, not a mountain! There are no cities, or towns that have separate, more restrictive laws than the state, like CO to worry about. Overall, I think WI has pretty good gun laws compared to most states, but we don't seem to get the love? If you don't value open carry, then we might get knocked down a few spots, I suppose. I get quite a few questions and positive comments, 4 negative ones in over four years daily OC. As I said, I'm way up north and I suspect that makes some difference, tho we do get a lot of tourists up here.

Exception: Madison city owned buildings, buses, park shelters, etc are all no guns allowed, I THINK. You can carry in the city, just limited on which buildings you can go into. In my opinion, this is illegal, but they will get away with it until it goes to court. You will find an abundance of no gun signs in Madison, there's really no reason to go there anyway. Those of us up north consider the southern 1/3 of the state to be part of Illinois!!!! Haha

Thank you for the info! the nogo places are pretty much universal, if i plan on visiting any of them i just wont carry.

I still have my colorado driver license and conceal permit, i need to get the paperwork started for the wisconsin CCL and driver license. Do i need the DL first to get the CCL?

I do value OC and prefer it to CC as being a big guy its more comfortable. Any encounter i have with anyone in the past or future has and will be met with civility until said individual wanting paperwork or info on me becomes a bully, thats when i clam up and just stare while recording.

I definitely am not one of the attention seekers and prefer not to get attention. in my time of OC in colorado (of which i already miss but will be back) ive only had perhaps 7 good encounters with other folks and they asked good questions and i educated them with facts. Ive never had any LEO encounters but i think that is because i conduct myself well in public and dont go anywhere i dont need to be.

I do plan on making field trips to explore the state and hopefully be able to meet other OCers around!

one thing that is still fuzzy to me and even after reading the statutes (which are cryptic to me) im still unclear about how to OC when driving without a CCL.
Also if asked for ID's do i have to comply?

pkbites · Jul 25, 2015

dieselpwr77 said:
if you were concealed and still entered a store for example with a no gun sign and were found to be carrying conceal i heard its a felony.

Nope. Carrying concealed without a CCL is a crime but it's a misdemeanor, not a felony. Can get you 9 months and 10K fine though. But it you won't be a felon.

I've been to 2 training seminars in which both the Attorney General (at the time) and the Assistant Attorney General said open carry without a CCL in a vehicle is legal and then gave examples of what they would consider open carry in a vehicle.

But a user on these boards is now going to post about a court ruling that was made before the law was changed. I contend that a ruling on a law that is no longer the law has no effect. He disagrees.

As always, I am not a lawyer, none of this was legal advice.

dieselpwr77 · Jul 25, 2015

pkbites said:
Nope. Carrying concealed without a CCL is a crime but it's a misdemeanor, not a felony. Can get you 9 months and 10K fine though. But it you won't be a felon.

I've been to 2 training seminars in which both the Attorney General (at the time) and the Assistant Attorney General said open carry without a CCL in a vehicle is legal and then gave examples of what they would consider open carry in a vehicle.

But a user on these boards is now going to post about a court ruling that was made before the law was changed. I contend that a ruling on a law that is no longer the law has no effect. He disagrees.

As always, I am not a lawyer, none of this was legal advice.

sorry, if one had a CCL and entered a store knowingly that had a no gun sign posted, if caught is this a felony. (i forget to be specific lol)

dieselpwr77 · Jul 25, 2015

Nightmare said:
If you are not performing an action that requires license from the state, notably driving, no.

There is no requirement to have identification papers on your person. Not yet anyway.

If you are in a consensual conversation with a cop and he asks who you are, then answer him or not as you wish. Do not lie.

If he asks for identification papers (Papieren, Bitte!), then walk away. If you are non-consensually detained arrested, then invoke your Fifth Amendment Right and KYBMS. The cop will search you as you have lost some rights, particularly the Fourth Amendment. Don't cooperate, don't resist.

Don't confuse identification with identification-papers. Your person, papers, and effects are protected by the Fourth Amendment.

exactly.

i meant by papers, CCL or DL if one was CCing.

but yes, if its consentual and the LEO is cool, i have no problem chit chatting and have done so in the past. Once he shows otherwise i clam up and record. (just got my bambuser set up again) yaay

dieselpwr77 · Jul 25, 2015

i appreciate all the good replies and knowledge here, i will continue to read and such.

rightwinglibertarian · Jul 25, 2015

Nightmare said:
No, and neither did I. But there are cops on OCDO that post in controversy. Just a friendly word of caution, that everything may not be as it seems.

The best source of information is the statutes and the DoJ FAQ.

I'm sure. They need regular reminders that they have a constitution to uphold and not what they are told is law. Maybe eventually a few will get the message that it is a crime to uphold 99% of state gun laws. Just a thought and rather OT but can one make a citizen arrest for an oath violation? I may start a new thread in the law library if it gets interesting.

dieselpwr77 said:
lol i posted that event to see if anyone wanted to meet and greet

oh..... whoops. I should say in my defense is was quite late for me. I just saw the thread and did a quick link copy.

Wstar425 · Jul 25, 2015

Wisconsin does NOT issue non resident conceal carry licenses. Once you become a Wisconsin resident, any other permits you may have are invalid for WI as you are a WI resident, and WI only honors resident permits for residents.That probably happens once you get a WI driver's license, but your residency may actually be before that if you did not do that asap.

If you are driving and pulled over for a driving infraction, you need to present your driver's license when asked. You do NOT need to inform that you are armed.

If I was asked to get out of the vehicle for some reason, I would PROBABLY inform the officer that I was armed.

You CAN open carry in a vehicle without a permit, but your weapon needs to be visible from outside the vehicle. How you define THAT is probably open to interpretation, and anything short of hanging off the rear view mirror, could probably be argued as concealed. Personally, I think laying on the passenger seat or the dash would be open, but my opinion matters not. Conversely, in an OWB holster on your right hip that would undoubtably be open while standing, probably becomes concealed in my truck with a big center console. I have my CCL for driving and I'm open carry until I get in my vehicle whereupon I then consider myself concealed. I don't really see a firearm loose on the seat or the dash to be particularly safe.

Read thru the linked FAQ, it answers a lot of common questions. And you are correct, trying to read the law is very confusing. In a lot of cases they struck down some illegal things and you soon find yourself chasing your tail. At least I do.

Wstar425 · Jul 25, 2015

One of your first explores should be up to Door County. Not too far from you, it could be a day trip easy enough. The lakeshore towns on Michigan and Superior have a lot of cool things if you are from an area without big water, such as CO. The Apostle islands are unique, and Bayfield is a quaint little town, probably a weekend for you from Appleton. Wisconsin has a lot to see and do, but mountains isn't one of them. Oh yeah, it's mandatory that all new residents convert to Packer Fans immediately, if not sooner!!! Haha

Southwestern Wisconsin west of Madison and south of the Interstate is beautiful in the fall especially, rolling hills and bluffs mixed with small farms and red barns. I've lived several different places in the state, and if it's a paved road, I've probably been on it. The center of the state is mostly flat, not a lot of water, lots of farms and mostly straight roads. Best stuff is around the edges in my opinion.

Transplant to Appleton WI from Colorado

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