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Thread: Time Duration Of A Detainment Allowed For A Sheriff Conducting A Traffic Stop

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    Lightbulb Time Duration Of A Detainment Allowed For A Sheriff Conducting A Traffic Stop

    Hello All! I Am A New Member Here & This Is My 1st Time Posting So 1st I would like to thank everyone here for helping everyone make these site go round! My question is regarding being stopped for a basic traffic violation/infraction inside Washington State By A King County Sheriff's Department Sheriff! 1st I should start out by saying that when the sheriff initiated contact with me & the first moment I heard him talking & turned & recognized him to be a sheriff I was in the middle of paying for gas at a gas station near my home at one of the pay at the pump areas that one may pay with cash! He says "Sir, excuse me sir you're being pulled over!" I gave him my full attention as I noticed he was parked at an angle behind my vehicle with his red & blues on! Then the next thing out of his mouth were questions regarding a 2011 incident (date of this event was October 3, 2014) that happened on the very street I was attempting to get gas at! I didn't go into it much other than saying that "yeah I subpoenaed two of your co-workers twice & they failed to appear on two separate occasions." He continued briefly about the past & then he told me I was speeding & asked me if i knew how fast I was going & I replied "I can't say that I was speeding sir & I am not going to argue with you out of respect." Anyways at that moment he demanded my license, insurance, & registration & then demanded me to get back inside my vehicle & I asked if i could go inside the store at the gas station while he So when he appeared at my driver's side door he hands me back my credentials & tells me I am not going to ticket you for speeding or no insurance! which got a little strange to me at the point when he started twisting & turning back & forth pushing his name tag & badge on his right breast side of his shirt towards me with one twist & then pushing his sheriff departments patch on his shoulders with one turn & he repeated these motions 4 or 5 times & as he was doing this he kept repeating to me "What's My Name?(waited for my answer) & Who Do I Work For?(waited for my answer) well eventually it was over with no tickets/infractions written or verbal or written warnings given! I shook his hand thanked him for the brake & wished him a goodnight! Well close to 7 months later the next year(2015) I open my mailbox & what do I see? Its a civil infractions notice with a speeding 23 M.P.H. over the speed limit ticket along with a no insurance ticket they totaled $787.00. So all of the research I have done regarding the detainment time duration & 4th Amendment tells me that thee almost 30 minutes I was detained was over the reasonable time allowed for detainment. IF THE DUTIES BY THE PEACE OFFICER INCLUDED STOPPING ME,

    IDENTIFYING ME, RUNNING MY NAME FOR WANTS/WARRANTS, RUNNING MY VEHICLE REGISTRATION & MY DRIVERS LICENSE & THE KICKER WRITING OUT A INFRACTION NOTICE & ISSUING THEE INFRACTIONS NOTICE TO ME ON THE SPOT! However I am unable to find anything set in stone on this matter IN LAW other than a bunch of case law under Terry Stops which more or less say 20 minutes is the time allowed. In the revised codes of washington state it states this ~~~~~> 2.90.060 Person receiving notice – Identification and detention.
    A person who is to receive a notice of civil infraction under TMC 2.90.050 is required to identify himself or herself to the enforcement officer by giving his or her name, address, and date of birth. Upon the request of the officer, the person shall produce reasonable identification, including a driver’s license or identicard.

    A person who is unable or unwilling to reasonably identify himself or herself to an enforcement officer may be detained for a period of time not longer than is reasonably necessary to identify the person for purposes of issuing a civil infraction. (Ord. 2008-10, 2008). & then it goes onto to say ~~~~~> 7.80.060 Person receiving notice — Identification and detention.
    A person who is to receive a notice of civil infraction under RCW 7.80.050 is required to identify himself or herself to the enforcement officer by giving his or her name, address, and date of birth. Upon the request of the officer, the person shall produce reasonable identification, including a driver's license.

    A person who is unable or unwilling to reasonably identify himself or herself to an enforcement officer may be detained for a period of time not longer than is reasonably necessary to identify the person for purposes of issuing a civil infraction.

    (THIS NEXT PART IS WHAT HAS ME STUMPED!) Each agency authorized to issue civil infractions shall adopt rules on identification and detention of persons committing civil infractions. [1987 c 456 § 14.] (OF COURSE I CAN NOT FIND ANYTHING WHATSOEVER ABOUT ANY ADOPTED RULES) Sorry for being so long winded; especially on my first thread, but I feel that I need to describe this entire chain of events in order for thee information I desire to come forth! SO PLEASE IF YOU HAVE A FINGER THAT CAN POINT ME THE RIGHT WAY PLEASE LEAVE ME A COMMENT!!! Thanks So Much! -ryan
    Last edited by Sea206Music; 07-27-2015 at 04:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    This should be moved to Washington State sub forums but I will respond to this here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea206Music View Post
    Hello All! I Am A New Member Here & This Is My 1st Time Posting So 1st I would like to thank everyone here for helping everyone make these site go round! My question is regarding being stopped for a basic traffic violation/infraction inside Washington State By A King County Sheriff's Department Sheriff!
    Problem #1 King County is not known for being upstanding officers.

    1st I should start out by saying that when the sheriff initiated contact with me & the first moment I heard him talking & turned & recognized him to be a sheriff I was in the middle of paying for gas at a gas station near my home at one of the pay at the pump areas that one may pay with cash! He says "Sir, excuse me sir you're being pulled over!" I gave him my full attention as I noticed he was parked at an angle behind my vehicle with his red & blues on! Then the next thing out of his mouth were questions regarding a 2011 incident (date of this event was October 3, 2014) that happened on the very street I was attempting to get gas at! I didn't go into it much other than saying that "yeah I subpoenaed two of your co-workers twice & they failed to appear on two separate occasions." He continued briefly about the past
    Problem #2 Next time, simply say these words "Why have you stopped me officer?" and repeat as needed. Do not converse with the officer about anything else other then the traffic stop in progress.

    & then he told me I was speeding & asked me if i knew how fast I was going & I replied "I can't say that I was speeding sir & I am not going to argue with you out of respect." Anyways at that moment he demanded my license, insurance, & registration & then demanded me to get back inside my vehicle
    Problem #3 At this point, you were not driving, you were at a fueling location obtaining fuel for your vehicle. The officer had no basis to force you to stop everything you were doing and make you get back into your vehicle. He could require that you not leave the scene, but I don't see any reason what so ever to force you to return to your vehicle.

    & I asked if i could go inside the store at the gas station while he did what he had to do & he said to get back inside my vehicle! So when he appeared at my driver's side door he hands me back my credentials & tells me I am not going to ticket you for speeding or for the lack of not having your proof of insurance on your person
    Problem #4 Since when are we required to have proof of insurance on our person when NOT driving?? The fact that your insurance information was inside your vehicle is more then adequate. End of story.

    & went into "The Speech" which got a little strange to me at the point when he started twisting & turning back & forth pushing his name tag & badge on his right breast side of his shirt towards me with one twist & then pushing his sheriff departments patch on his shoulders with one turn & he repeated these motions 4 or 5 times & as he was doing this he kept repeating to me "What's My Name?(waited for my answer) & Who Do I Work For?(waited for my answer) well eventually it was over with no tickets/infractions written or verbal or written warnings given! I shook his hand thanked him for the brake & wished him a goodnight! Well close to 7 months later the next year(2015) I open my mailbox & what do I see? Its a civil infractions notice with a speeding 23 M.P.H. over the speed limit ticket along with a no insurance ticket
    Problem #5 Easy solution. Contest the ticket and explain to the judge that you did in fact have insurance and the situation. There is no law that requires one to have proof of insurance on their person or at any time other then while driving.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    While it may not get you perfect composition, every tme you take a breath start a new paragraph, OK?

    I got about half-way through the first section (I will not dignify it by calling it a paragraph) of your wall of words and gave up trying. Before I quit I did notice some "interesting" events being reported, but just did not have the fortitude to press on.

    Thank you, Grim_Knight for doing battle and pulling some comprehension out of it. Because of you I have what is probably a decent understanding of what went on.

    Then the next thing out of his mouth were questions regarding a 2011 incident (date of this event was October 3, 2014)
    Why are you here now, almost a year later? What do you hope to accomplish at this time, or what assistance do you want from the readers of OCDO at this time?

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    While it may not get you perfect composition, every tme you take a breath start a new paragraph, OK?

    I got about half-way through the first section (I will not dignify it by calling it a paragraph) of your wall of words and gave up trying. Before I quit I did notice some "interesting" events being reported, but just did not have the fortitude to press on.

    Thank you, Grim_Knight for doing battle and pulling some comprehension out of it. Because of you I have what is probably a decent understanding of what went on.



    Why are you here now, almost a year later? What do you hope to accomplish at this time, or what assistance do you want from the readers of OCDO at this time?

    stay safe.
    He's here because he just received a ticket in the mail a year after the gas station incident.
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Sea206Music (the OP): PLEASE take some time and modify your original post to break it down into "paragraphs".

    Whether because of age, demeanor, or eyesight, some of us have neither the willingness or the ability to follow/track sentence after sentence in order to digest the content of what you have written.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    He's here because he just received a ticket in the mail a year after the gas station incident.
    My poor old brain is still overwhelmed. Where did you read that?

    Also (rhetorically) why is the OP not telling me that?

    stay safe.
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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    He's here because he just received a ticket in the mail a year after the gas station incident.
    So.........who deferred the citation? Did the postal service delay delivery or did the LEO delay? And why do that? Inquiring minds want to know.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea206Music View Post
    .......... Well close to 7 months later the next year(2015) I open my mailbox & what do I see? Its a civil infractions notice with a speeding 23 M.P.H. over the speed limit ticket along with a no insurance ticket they totaled $787.00.
    A long delay. What kind of postage do you use to slow a letter down?
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Sea206Music -

    Here's the Seattle municipal code on traffic citations. It tells you what you should do within 15 days of receiving the citation in the mail. Hurry - time is not on your side.

    Go to www.municode.com. Click on the silhouette for WA. Scroll down to Seattle. Work your way down in the right side to the code cites below.

    (I have tried at least a dozen ways to make those clickable links. MuniCode does not want to let me do that. Sorry.)

    Municode Library

    11.31.040 - Notice of traffic infraction—Determination—Response.
    11.31.050 - Response to notice of traffic infraction—Contesting determination—Hearing—Failure to appear.
    11.31.060 - Hearing—Contesting determination that infraction committed—Appeal.
    11.31.070 - Hearings—Explanation of mitigating circumstances.

    stay safe.
    Last edited by skidmark; 07-26-2015 at 01:43 PM. Reason: added info
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    How is this OC related?

    Fight the ticket, yes.

    How could you be speeding while stopped and fueling?

    What did the previous police encounter have to do with the stop?

    Also, demand discovery. There are instructions online on how to do that.

    Any and all records of the stop, such as; copy of officer's notes of the stop, video of the stop, the radio calls from the stop, and all audio from the stop.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    How is this OC related?
    Because it's about a car.

    You cannot open carry a loaded firearm in a car without a CCW.

    BAM, OC related. [/sarcasm]
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    while a bit olde...please put in a complaint to the King county sheriff's dept IA department...

    and oh please edit your post for readability...

    best of luck

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    There is more to the story I would guess. Maybe he should hire a lawyer that handles traffic matters.

    What this has to do with open carry is a good question.


    How long should or can a traffic stop take as long as necessary to conduct the business.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 07-27-2015 at 07:36 PM.
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  14. #14
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    There is more to the story I would guess. Maybe he should hire a lawyer that handles traffic matters.

    What this has to do with open carry is a good question.


    How long should or can a traffic stop take as long as necessary to conduct the business.
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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    Because it's about a car.

    You cannot open carry a loaded firearm in a car without a CCW.

    BAM, OC related. [/sarcasm]
    Simmer down, now.

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