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Thread: What Kind of Society...

  1. #1
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    What Kind of Society...

    ...Do We Live In?

    Today is July 26, 2015. At the top of the hour--7:00 pm--I was listening to a report of a wildfire on the ABC radio network. A mother who had abandoned her home was quoted as saying the first thing she grabbed was her kids' social security cards and birth certificates.

    Not a keepsake. Not a memento. Not stuff to live in a hotel a few days. The kids' social security cards and birth certificates.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    There is recently an article, viral in some circles, of a Chinese mother that refused to break the window of her uber-luxury SUV to release her locked-in children. The comments are often of how foolish she was to leave the wireless key in the vehicle.

    http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=855020

    http://www.aol.com/article/2015/07/1...-son/21209143/
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-26-2015 at 07:32 PM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  3. #3
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    ...Do We Live In?

    Today is July 26, 2015. At the top of the hour--7:00 pm--I was listening to a report of a wildfire on the ABC radio network. A mother who had abandoned her home was quoted as saying the first thing she grabbed was her kids' social security cards and birth certificates.

    Not a keepsake. Not a memento. Not stuff to live in a hotel a few days. The kids' social security cards and birth certificates.
    One where the commoners live in feared subservience. I keep my "papers" in fire resistant safes for that reason. Without them I basically don't exist.
    Recently I had to re-up my security clearance and was required to supply my "papers" again. As if they would be different from the ones I showed the last time. Interesting enough when I asked the investigator if he couldn't just have the Chinese send the info over (Chinese hack clearance info) he wasn't amused.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  4. #4
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Such majorities, very likely, could be found in half, perhaps nine-tenths, of all the countries on the globe. What do they prove? Nothing but the tyranny and corruption of the very governments that have reduced so large portions of [*9] the people to their present ignorance, servility, degradation, and corruption; an ignorance, servility, degradation, and corruption that are best illustrated in the simple fact that they do sustain governments that have so oppressed, degraded, and corrupted them. They do nothing towards proving that the governments themselves are legitimate; or that they ought to be sustained, or even endured, by those who understand their true character. The mere fact, therefore, that a government chances to be sustained by a majority, of itself proves nothing that is necessary to be proved, in order to know whether such government should be sustained, or not.-Lysander Spooner
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 07-26-2015 at 08:28 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    twoskinsonemanns and SVG are poster children for the sovereignty of the individual. Yet I will bet SVG (twoskinsonemanns has already admitted to it) keeps his papers where he can get hold of them, or at least knows how to get "official" copies when the need arises.

    As for grabbing the actual SS cards and birth certificates? Some preppers and preppers-light have put together as part of their grab and go kit a file (hard or electronic) of the documents that will be needed to start over again. know my SSN because I have to use it for not-for-identification purposes just about everywhere, and I know where and when I was born along with the names of both my parents so I can send off for a birth certificate (as opposed to a record of live birth ). I have not and will not memorize my bank account and credit card numbers, but I have them stored (hard copy and several different electronic means) where I can get access to them. Ditto for the name and policy numbers for the companies that carry my life, homeowners, and automobile insurance. Basic medical info is also stored several places in several ways.

    Need to evacuate? What's going to be the primary need? Survival and self defense. Now you know what I'll be grabbing on my way out the door.

    YMMV

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    If I lost 100% of everything, I would borrow a set of clothes from a friend, get a ride on base, head to the ID office, demonstrate my fingerprint, answer some key info only I know, and walk out of there with my base ID card.

    I would then proceed to the bank, make a withdrawal, obtain another credit/debit card, and proceed to the Drivers License office.

    Back in business. Elapsed time: Less than 2 hours.

    Civilians might find things a bit more difficult.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  7. #7
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    twoskinsonemanns and SVG are poster children for the sovereignty of the individual. Yet I will bet SVG (twoskinsonemanns has already admitted to it) keeps his papers where he can get hold of them, or at least knows how to get "official" copies when the need arises.

    .
    Oh how cute, subtle insult with built in assumptions and a fallacy argument.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  8. #8
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    If I lost 100% of everything, I would borrow a set of clothes from a friend, get a ride on base, head to the ID office, demonstrate my fingerprint, answer some key info only I know, and walk out of there with my base ID card.

    I would then proceed to the bank, make a withdrawal, obtain another credit/debit card, and proceed to the Drivers License office.

    Back in business. Elapsed time: Less than 2 hours.

    Civilians might find things a bit more difficult.
    That's a good point it is easy to replace the government papers.

    I find it a sad state though that its the government papers that seem so important over any other items they could have grabbed.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  9. #9
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Oh how cute, subtle insult with built in assumptions and a fallacy argument.
    I like to view it as a compliment although seeing him type out my login name like that gave me a creepy chill. Imagine the sort of chill you might get if you saw a video of a pedophile licking his lips and whispering your kid's name... (shiver!)
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I like to view it as a compliment although seeing him type out my login name like that gave me a creepy chill. Imagine the sort of chill you might get if you saw a video of a pedophile licking his lips and whispering your kid's name... (shiver!)
    LOL....

    Shiver indeed.

    I wasn't much personally insulted, its the internet and/or he seems to like to troll a bit the last few years, I was just noting his poor attempt at it.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    ...Do We Live In?

    ...
    depends on your view of the world around you. Is there a stack of photo albums, or a iCloud account with all that stuff. Paper photos on the wall, or a digital picture presenter device? Other than a few items that cannot be digitized for later retrieval, her priorities are about what I would expect. Though, it is not the end of the world as she knows it, stuff can be replaced, even her kid's favorite bankkie.

    State issued documents? Well, it could take all day to get that stuff even if you have every one of the 57 documents the drones require of you. Ever try getting a replacement DL these days?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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