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Thread: "If you cross my sidewalk, there's gonna be another shooting."

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    "If you cross my sidewalk, there's gonna be another shooting."

    Hillview man arrested for shooting down drone; cites right to privacy
    "They asked me, 'Are you the S-O-B that shot my drone?' and I said, 'Yes I am,'" he said. "I had my 40mm Glock on me and they started toward me and I told them, 'If you cross my sidewalk, there's gonna be another shooting.'"
    [ ... ]
    “Well, I came out and it was down by the neighbor’s house, about 10 feet off the ground, looking under their canopy that they’ve got under their back yard," Merideth said. "I went and got my shotgun and I said, ‘I’m not going to do anything unless it’s directly over my property.’"
    [ ... ]
    VanMeter has a 16-year-old daughter who lays out at their pool. She says a drone hovering with a camera is creepy and weird.

    http://www.wdrb.com/story/29650818/h...y#WNPoll147728
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    Open Carry Mentioned in the News

    Not the primary subject, but interesting story. Snip from article below.

    TFred

    Hillview man arrested for shooting down drone; cites right to privacy

    "Four guys came over to confront me about it, and I happened to be armed, so that changed their minds," Merideth said.

    "They asked me, 'Are you the S-O-B that shot my drone?' and I said, 'Yes I am,'" he said. "I had my 40mm Glock on me and they started toward me and I told them, 'If you cross my sidewalk, there's gonna be another shooting.'"

    A short time later, Merideth said the police arrived.

    "There were some words exchanged there about my weapon, and I was open carry – it was completely legal," he said. "Long story short, after that, they took me to jail for wanton endangerment first degree and criminal mischief...because I fired the shotgun into the air."

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I would vote not guilty on a jury. But if he had kept his mouth shut to both the drone owners, and the police they would have had no grounds for an arrest. Unless they took the drone memory into evidence, and the drone owners might not like that. Considering the polling numbers, I would say a hung jury, or a acquittal is in his future.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    What is the model number of the 40mm Glock he owns?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    What is the model number of the 40mm Glock he owns?
    LOL Good catch. I'm sure it's an M79. The 40x53's are mounted weapons.

    I worked for an engineer that bragged that he had closed down two industries. His first was maybe Aerodyne, where he had a patent on a throttled solid-fuel engine. He told of working on the 40 mm grenade aerodynamics. They would design an ogive nose shape, turn it on a lathe, fit it, and fire it out the backdoor, three or four per day. Charles H. Frampton, RIP
    Last edited by Nightmare; 07-29-2015 at 12:20 PM.
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    Regular Member FBrinson's Avatar
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    No matter which side of the drone debate you stand, you have to admit, the 40mm Glock owner lacks common sense and needs a(n) (better) attorney to advise him.
    Last edited by FBrinson; 07-29-2015 at 12:19 PM. Reason: added some stuff, like words, and things

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    Drone over your property, with camera, destroying your 4th amendment right?.. I say it's skeet shooting time.. but a BB/Pellet gun would have probably done the job.

    when asked if shot down, would have probably replied, So your the perverts spying on my daughter in the back yard, I think I'll hold onto this and provide it as evidence to the Police for peeping.

    then if they made an aggressive move for retrieval, I would have yelled to stay where they are, since if they come onto my property with intent to cause harm to retrieve this evidence, I will be forced to defend myself with lethal force.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    Drone over your property, with camera, destroying your 4th amendment right?.. I say it's skeet shooting time.. but a BB/Pellet gun would have probably done the job.

    when asked if shot down, would have probably replied, So your the perverts spying on my daughter in the back yard, I think I'll hold onto this and provide it as evidence to the Police for peeping.

    then if they made an aggressive move for retrieval, I would have yelled to stay where they are, since if they come onto my property with intent to cause harm to retrieve this evidence, I will be forced to defend myself with lethal force.
    I think the drone landed in the neighbors yard after he shot it, I certainly would not have turned it back over if it landed in my yard. I would just tell them to stop trespassing and get off property. Plus NOT talk to the police.

    I am so baffled that people think talking to the police in an investigative posture is a good idea.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member FBrinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I think the drone landed in the neighbors yard after he shot it, I certainly would not have turned it back over if it landed in my yard. I would just tell them to stop trespassing and get off property. Plus NOT talk to the police.

    I am so baffled that people think talking to the police in an investigative posture is a good idea.
    Or talking to the media.. either way.. common sense did not prevail. It does seem that this particular media outlet was on Mr. 40mm Glocks's side, somewhat, but he said way more than he should have. KYBMS is not just in regards to police.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I think the drone landed in the neighbors yard after he shot it, I certainly would not have turned it back over if it landed in my yard. I would just tell them to stop trespassing and get off property. Plus NOT talk to the police.

    I am so baffled that people think talking to the police in an investigative posture is a good idea.
    the point is, you yourself could review the memory card on the drone, and if there was evidence of them being peeping tom perv's, you could get them charged. or if you turn it over to the police, they are in this instance and arbiter of a 2 party conflict, of course you could post signs of restricted air space on your property too I guess...

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    The video drone, that I've been playing with, transmits live video to enable the piloting. The controller has the recording capability and video monitor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The video drone, that I've been playing with, transmits live video to enable the piloting. The controller has the recording capability and video monitor.
    I've been toying with the idea of using a drone for area security surveillance, of course this would put the drone up 100 feet or more.

    if what you say is true, then all the stuff is on the handheld control unit. in which case your possession, depending on how you present it to LEO's could be used for the purpose of a warrant to seize the remote control for evidence.

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    Too bad the part about a "40mm Glock" was a misstatement. Something in that caliber wouldn't have left enough any drone pieces bigger than a gnat's ear to recover.

    It WAS a mistake, right? Or have I just not shopped at the right gun stores?

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    Seems OC may have prevented some problems for the homeowner.

    He probably should have been a bit more circumspect in how he approached it, and what he said to cops.

    Charles
    Last edited by utbagpiper; 07-29-2015 at 04:27 PM.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

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    I'm with the homeowner on this one, assuming he statements are honest and accurate regarding the flight pattern of the drone.

    I know I don't own the airspace above my home. But I darn well ought to have control of it from ground level up to some reasonable height. What is reasonable?

    Well, as a first pass (overly simplified) rule, ham radio towers are limited to a maximum height of 200 feet before they must be registered with the FCC and notification of the tower provided to the FAA.

    It seems the FCC imposes minimum altitude limits on fixed-wing aircraft in Sec. 91.119 of 500 feet over open areas and 1,000 feet above the highest structure in populated areas. Helicopters are exempt, but may not operate such as to cause hazard.

    Using the above not as legal mandates, but simply as a starting point for what might be a reasonable height....

    I'm thinking a homeowner ought to have some general control over the airspace above his property up to a height of at least a couple of hundred feet, which seems to be pushing the outer limits of a scattergun for taking a bird. Certainly, anything dropping down below the height of the highest structure on my property (TV antenna, chimney, top of house/barn roof, etc) should be well within legal limits for me to disable so long as I do not endanger innocent persons nor property in doing so.

    The homeowner is correct, when you are sitting poolside in your backyard inside 6' opaque fencing, you have and should enjoy some expectation of privacy. I can't imagine any court allowing LEOs to operate a drone closely or hovering over such a backyard to gather evidence without a warrant. I see no reason why my neighbor or some random stranger should expect legal privilege to hover his drone in that same airspace.

    In addition to the privacy concerns, there are legit safety concerns with a football sized drone hovering over my property. It could come down at any time. And should that "$1800" drone cause $18,000 in damage to my car, boat, home, or million dollar breeding stallion, will the owners voluntarily come admit their fault? Does their drone have a registration number to track them down? Or do they enjoy all legal privilege of using the airspace while terrestrial property owners are left, effectively, with all the risk?

    Keep the drones over public ways, or beyond reasonable range of my ability to bring it down.

    Assuming safe and proper use of the shotgun, I hope the homeowner beats the rap on this one.

    Or is there an angle I'm missing?

    And of course, we ought to be very careful of what we say to police.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Regular Member FBrinson's Avatar
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    There is already a thread about this. Here.
    May need to combine threads?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    Drone over your property, with camera, destroying your 4th amendment right?.. I say it's skeet shooting time.. but a BB/Pellet gun would have probably done the job.

    when asked if shot down, would have probably replied, So your the perverts spying on my daughter in the back yard, I think I'll hold onto this and provide it as evidence to the Police for peeping.

    then if they made an aggressive move for retrieval, I would have yelled to stay where they are, since if they come onto my property with intent to cause harm to retrieve this evidence, I will be forced to defend myself with lethal force.
    DAMMIT!!

    When are you [deleted as socially inappropriate] [deleted as demeaning] [deleted as insulting] [deleted as physically impossible] folks going to learn that the 4th Amendment only applies to what the government does/tries to do to you?

    There is a Common Law right to privacy, and may even be statutes that govern privacy and the breaching of that by another person. (Try "peeping tom" as your search statement.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Ownership of Airspace Over Property. With citations to case law.

    http://aviation.uslegal.com/ownershi...over-property/

    "The dividing line between the portion of the airspace in the public domain and the portion protected as an incident of land ownership against invasions by aircraft, is the line delineated by the Federal Aviation Administration as the minimum safe altitude of flight[ix].

    The common law stance on the relative rights of the landowner and the aviator to the use of air space above the surface of the earth is that an unprivileged intrusion in the space above the surface of the earth, at whatever height above the surface, is a trespass[x].

    An entry above the surface of the earth, in the air space in the possession of another, by a person who is traveling in an aircraft, is privileged if the flight is conducted[xi]:

    for the purpose of travel through the air space or for any other legitimate purpose,
    in a reasonable manner,
    at such a height as not to interfere unreasonably with the possessor’s enjoyment of the surface of the earth and the air space above it, and
    in conformity with such regulations of state and federal aeronautical authorities as are in force in a particular state."

    [i] Drennen v. County of Ventura, 38 Cal. App. 3d 84 (Cal. App. 2d Dist. 1974).

    [ii] Lacey v. United States, 219 Ct. Cl. 551 (Ct. Cl. 1979).

    [iii] Powell v. United States, 1 Cl. Ct. 669 (Cl. Ct. 1983).

    [iv] Hero Lands Co. v. United States, 1 Cl. Ct. 102 (Cl. Ct. 1983).

    [v] Newark v. Eastern Airlines, Inc., 159 F. Supp. 750 (D.N.J. 1958).

    [vi] Id.

    [vii] Persyn v. United States, 34 Fed. Cl. 187, 195 (Fed. Cl. 1995).

    [viii] United States v. Causby, 328 U.S. 256 (U.S. 1946).

    [ix] Lacey v. United States, 219 Ct. Cl. 551 (Ct. Cl. 1979).

    [x] Guith v. Consumers Power Co., 36 F. Supp. 21 (D. Mich. 1940).

    [xi] Id.

    [xii] Long v. Charlotte, 306 N.C. 187 (N.C. 1982).

    [xiii] Sneed v. County of Riverside, 218 Cal. App. 2d 205 (Cal. App. 4th Dist. 1963).

    [xiv] Drennen v. County of Ventura, 38 Cal. App. 3d 84, 88 (Cal. App. 2d Dist. 1974).

    [xv] Twitty v. State, 85 N.C. App. 42, 53 (N.C. Ct. App. 1987).
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    DAMMIT!!

    When are you [deleted as socially inappropriate] [deleted as demeaning] [deleted as insulting] [deleted as physically impossible] folks going to learn that the 4th Amendment only applies to what the government does/tries to do to you?

    There is a Common Law right to privacy, and may even be statutes that govern privacy and the breaching of that by another person. (Try "peeping tom" as your search statement.)

    stay safe.
    uhm you realize this implies that you also continue to have your rights enforceable against OTHER PRIVATE CITIZENS right? and as the previosu poster showed, the area above the terrestrial property to a certain point is private and therefore restrictable. any drone flight at a low level could be viewed as a trespass. as a result, also a forfeiture of said drone property.

  20. #20
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    This story has all the makings of a reality TV show.

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    DAMMIT!!

    When are you [deleted as socially inappropriate] [deleted as demeaning] [deleted as insulting] [deleted as physically impossible] folks going to learn that the 4th Amendment only applies to what the government does/tries to do to you?
    I think everybody on the site knows that, but they like pushing your buttons.

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    Hmmmmm.

    Blasting them out of sky is dangerous and illegal. So, how to respond? How to respond? <fingers tapping> Lets make a list!


    1. Time to get busy building that argon laser?

    2. Time to get busy building that directed-beam EMP generator? (fry the video card, too)

    3. Plain old-fashion lasso?

    4. Put a buxom mannequin naked on a chaise by the pool, and lure one of them in close, and then...(baseball bat? Silly-string to jam the rotors? Tennis racket?)

    5. Place ads in the paper offering the return of drones upon large payment. No drones actually captured; just make the pilots think you've got some way to take them down.

    6. Train a falcon.

    7. Build a jammer--find out the frequencies they typically operate at, build a scanner to find a strong local frequency, then jam that one. Pick up crashed drone at leisure. (Maybe not legal. Check first.)

    8. Cross-bow slinging a net. Similar to capturing birds for scientific research, just a smaller net.

    9. C'mon guys, help me out here. Dream up s'more.

    Last edited by Citizen; 07-29-2015 at 08:02 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
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    Pressure washer?

    Firefighter Hoses Drone
    Starting around 12:00 mark
    Last edited by Shovelhead; 07-29-2015 at 08:36 PM.
    Assault Weapon (N) “Any firearm whose design disturbs the sleep of progressive politicians.”.

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    Military/Industrial grade Silly String! I believe that the propellant, solvent and substance all evaporate. It's used to detect trip wires.

    The lengths that we must go to, to defeat a drone, is good evidence of the swaddling cloth that FedGov is suffocating freedom in. As a high school student in a chemistry class taught by Brigadier General W. W. Wright USAF Ret, I learned how to make all sorts of stuff(!) now illegal and obscured.

    EMP and lasers were just being invented, but my 2 KW Tesla Coil would blank TV for hundreds of yards and light florescent lights if its Faraday cage was left open. I was required to interlock the shielded door with the power supply - by the school administration.

    Here is the tube, two of which I used in the power oscillator.
    https://home.comcast.net/~n6jv/750tl.html
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  24. #24
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    Animatronic Whomping Willow from Harry Potter?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    If the drone had crashed into the shooters yard the owner legally could retrieve his property.

    Logsdon v. Hains, Case No. 06-4085 (C.A. 6, Jul. 6, 2007)
    http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions...7a0252p-06.pdf

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