Police Training

Firearms Iinstuctor said:

The city folks wanted to gun up and treat every body as deadly threats even when there was no cause to.

Your conservation officers/ Game wardens, rural officers handle armed citizens every hunting season with out trouble.

The problem I see normally comes from the top down if the Department has an anti gun mayor, police chief, city council.

They condone the mistreatment of gun owners and the 2nd amendment and some of the street officers follow their lead..

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Welcome to OCDO, I hope you stay a while as a great deal of useful information can be had here. That said, a few have "attitudes" in dealing with LEOs of any variety so keep your flame suit handy.

I live in a city that "Fought the law", but the law won. Three serious MWAG incidents drew the public into lawsuits. This is not the best way to learn. On the last incident, two Citizens were included when the entire training program was rewritten for both LEOs AND the 911 dispatcher. LEOs saw us all as criminals, not because we were, but because the city council and mayor pushed it on them. See above (Truth) comments by FI.
I recommend getting copies of training bulletins from as many organizations as possible. We have most of Washington's on our sub-forum. Some read as tho we are bad guys and give info on "How to arrest" and some are more realistic on "How to interact with Legally Armed Citizens".
Please include some of the People here in your research to get the best document and the best training possible for the People in your area. We are not your adversaries.

Oh, yes. I added the underlined to your comment. I have had LEOs, in my town, tell me, repeatedly, that they supported us 100% but get harassment from above. That no longer happens

scouser said:

To the OP

please let us know if you wish to take up skidmark's invitation to dinner, and I will be sure to find something else to do that evening

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peter nap said:

That ^

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Really, you two. While you are some of the folks who have has extremely bad encounters with the cops because of OCing this "I'm going to hide in the closet" attitude seems uncalled for.

You both have good reasons to [strike]dislike[/strike] hate cops but this is an opportunity to let a real live cop trainer see that the mere presence of a holstered handgun is not a threat to officer safety or an indication that the mall/restaurant is going to be shot up. It's also an opportunity to provide some background on why you feel the way you do towards/about cops.

Plus, I'll bring cootie repellant for you and cootie killer for CVCJA. (I'm sure he will understand.)

stay safe.

What is the police mindset that we are working with? For example:

What is police procedure if a someone calls the PD saying that they saw a concealed firearm when a man's coat blew open in the breeze while he was pumping gas?

Are efforts made to find the man and verify that he is legally armed, especially considering that a permit would be required for such concealment?

Or is more effort expended to verify legality of an open carrier, who needs no permit, and is statistically far less likely to be up to no good?

skidmark said:

Really, you two. While you are some of the folks who have has extremely bad encounters with the cops because of OCing this "I'm going to hide in the closet" attitude seems uncalled for.

You both have good reasons to [strike]dislike[/strike] hate cops but this is an opportunity to let a real live cop trainer see that the mere presence of a holstered handgun is not a threat to officer safety or an indication that the mall/restaurant is going to be shot up. It's also an opportunity to provide some background on why you feel the way you do towards/about cops.

Plus, I'll bring cootie repellant for you and cootie killer for CVCJA. (I'm sure he will understand.)

stay safe.

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Skid, I'll stand by my original statement

I know it has been just over 1 day from the original post, but was this a 1 post driveby?

JoeSparky said:

I know it has been just over 1 day from the original post, but was this a 1 post driveby?

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Possibly - withholding judgement for now though.

scouser said:

To the OP

please let us know if you wish to take up skidmark's invitation to dinner, and I will be sure to find something else to do that evening

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HAHAHAHA ^^^This again

Grapeshot said:

Possibly - withholding judgement for now though.

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Some people do have life's also. :banana:

Firearms Iinstuctor said:

Some people do have life's also. :banana:

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I heard that too. I wonder where they are?

skidmark said:

Really, you two. While you are some of the folks who have has extremely bad encounters with the cops because of OCing this "I'm going to hide in the closet" attitude seems uncalled for.

You both have good reasons to [strike]dislike[/strike] hate cops but this is an opportunity to let a real live cop trainer see that the mere presence of a holstered handgun is not a threat to officer safety or an indication that the mall/restaurant is going to be shot up. It's also an opportunity to provide some background on why you feel the way you do towards/about cops.

Plus, I'll bring cootie repellant for you and cootie killer for CVCJA. (I'm sure he will understand.)

stay safe.

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Oddly enough, I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with Skid. Here you have a police academy instructor who is reaching out a hand, asking for info to better train his officers. I don't think that a snarky attitude is warranted here.

ProShooter said:

Oddly enough, I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with Skid. Here you have a police academy instructor who is reaching out a hand, asking for info to better train his officers. I don't think that a snarky attitude is warranted here.

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As far as I know it's not snark. One has a very real hatred towards all cops that I have discussed the whys and wherefores, as well as the utility of, with him. The other I believe may just be jaded and have reached the end of his rope about lying cops and lying cop administration. Since nobody is paying me to change their thoughts, and they have basically told me to MYOB I'm out of that part of the discussion.

We shall see what we shall see as regards the OP. My internal BS Troll-o'meter says to give things 7 more days. YMMV

And I agree that is odd that you agree with me. (here I write and delete and rewrite and edit several attempts at a snarky comment but just give it up as not worth the effort of keeping it socially appropriate)

stay safe.

skidmark said:

As far as I know it's not snark. One has a very real hatred towards all cops that I have discussed the whys and wherefores, as well as the utility of, with him. The other I believe may just be jaded and have reached the end of his rope about lying cops and lying cop administration. Since nobody is paying me to change their thoughts, and they have basically told me to MYOB I'm out of that part of the discussion.

We shall see what we shall see as regards the OP. My internal BS Troll-o'meter says to give things 7 more days. YMMV

And I agree that is odd that you agree with me. (here I write and delete and rewrite and edit several attempts at a snarky comment but just give it up as not worth the effort of keeping it socially appropriate)

stay safe.

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I have no doubt that some have had bad dealings with the police. I'm well aware of some of these situations, and I agree that they were poorly handled. I also know of, and we've seen evidence of well handled situations.

In the end though, someone(the OP) not involved in those poorly handled situations has asked for input to try to at least make a difference in their bailiwick in making things better, and I believe that they deserve the courtesy of honest replies, until they prove that they do not deserve honesty. Isn't educating the masses one of the goals of this community?

ProShooter

Perhaps the OP does deserve honest courteous replies. However, I'm at the point where I have an intense distrust of any and all cops so my evening would be spoiled if he were in my presence, hence my request to be forewarned of his attendance so that I can make other plans. It would be a better dinner for everyone there that way.

When you've had a cop lie to get a warrant, and deliberately avoid having the complainant make a sworn written statement to the magistrate as happened in my case perhaps you'd feel the same way. If the statement we did eventually get had been sworn to by the bus driver and the cop then you know that the video would have proved their sworn statement to be a crock of you-know-what. If you haven't seen the cop's written complaint let me know and I'll send you a copy, as for the video I know you saw that in the courtroom.

But my distaste goes back a lot further than 2013, a quarter of a century further back in another part of the world

ESPN 30 for 30: Hillsborough Disaster

OP

One thing you need to drill into the heads of all the people who come through your class

"don't you dare demand respect ... damn well EARN it !!!"

ProShooter said:

I have no doubt that some have had bad dealings with the police. I'm well aware of some of these situations, and I agree that they were poorly handled. I also know of, and we've seen evidence of well handled situations.

In the end though, someone(the OP) not involved in those poorly handled situations has asked for input to try to at least make a difference in their bailiwick in making things better, and I believe that they deserve the courtesy of honest replies, until they prove that they do not deserve honesty. Isn't educating the masses one of the goals of this community?

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who hasn't had bad encounters with police??

heck when I was growing up, I had bad encounters with one of the most corrupt police departments in the country..

Carroll county Iowa, talk about bad news, FBI investigation into drug rings led here where the town paid off the FBI to stop the investigation after several high profile people where found out, but guess it makes sense, the bureaucrats/politicians ship it in and distribute, making themselves rich, the police find and charge the end users, making the county/town more rich, thereby making the politicians/bureaucrats more rich again due to pay increases from a "surplus" of monetary flow from indictments on drug charges.. sad really. even members of the P.D. where in on the whole thing from what I remember of the situation.

if only I knew then about rights and how to enforce them, with video taping encounters and what I know now... would have been a very different time.. probably be rich with civil rights violation lawsuits..

Ezek said:

who hasn't had bad encounters with police??

heck when I was growing up, I had bad encounters with one of the most corrupt police departments in the country..

Carroll county Iowa, talk about bad news, FBI investigation into drug rings led here where the town paid off the FBI to stop the investigation after several high profile people where found out, but guess it makes sense, the bureaucrats/politicians ship it in and distribute, making themselves rich, the police find and charge the end users, making the county/town more rich, thereby making the politicians/bureaucrats more rich again due to pay increases from a "surplus" of monetary flow from indictments on drug charges.. sad really. even members of the P.D. where in on the whole thing from what I remember of the situation.

if only I knew then about rights and how to enforce them, with video taping encounters and what I know now... would have been a very different time.. probably be rich with civil rights violation lawsuits..

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Cite please.

Many folks have never had a bad experience with LE at least in their opinion.
The reason being is they believe that LE was the right to do/say almost anything during their encounter. They excuse bad/poor behavior on stress, low pay, poor training, when good morals, common sense and good judgement is really what is lacking, imho.

I for one have little faith the OP is what he/she claims. Waiting for a reply and more info from them before I add and real commentary.

Marco said:

Many folks have never had a bad experience with LE at least in their opinion.
The reason being is they believe that LE was the right to do/say almost anything during their encounter. They excuse bad/poor behavior on stress, low pay, poor training, when good morals, common sense and good judgement is really what is lacking, imho.

I for one have little faith the OP is what he/she claims. Waiting for a reply and more info from them before I add and real commentary.

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Agree - some bells lack clarity.

The officer who did this was also a "Police trainer" -- at that main King County Sheriffs training academy.



His hyper aggressive behavior was protected by his fellow officers, and his supervisors.

It only cost tax payers 10 million dollars.

THIS is what a LEO trainer can do.

Fix that.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/169255616.html

A scathing audit of the King County sheriff's office has found that deputies accused of misconduct and illegal use of force are falling through the cracks.

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"We're a good department, but we can do better and we know it," said King County Sheriff Steven Strachan

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Every person in prison says they are innocent, right? Every bad police force says they are doing good works.

I'm lost. The guy asked for recommendations. ...
He got a couple. No one has to kiss him.