O'Bama Sends DoD to Eject Citizen Troop Guardians from Strip Malls in Las Vegas!

Ron_O · Jul 31, 2015

Obama Sends DoD to Eject Citizen Troop Guardians from Strip Malls in Las Vegas!

This is true.

My apologies if you've been following us on other sites but I wanted to bring it back here because I know we have a few attorneys in our group. I see this as one of the ultimate open-carry issues we can exercise.

We need some legal advice and may need to seek a Court Order or more to protect our rights to protect our troops here and nationwide. According to the DoD rep they are trying to shut down our efforts all across the nation.

This is Obama's anti-gun agenda in all of it's despicable glory. It's apparent that the sight of armed citizens exercising their 2A rights is an image that he wants to shut down. It's not about the embarrassment, it's about his hatred of legally armed citizens. The troops have LOVED having us around, as have vets, Metro, UNLV police, mall security, shop owners, and the general public.

So here's what's been happening. Our guys have been arming several different facilities across greater Las Vegas, from Henderson to North Las Vegas. I've been focusing on S. Rainbow and UNLV myself. Early this week a mysterious woman ordered an Army sergeant to tell one of our guys to leave the S. Rainbow facility after he'd been there for three hours that day and many days before that.

We speculated that she was DoD. The next morning she confronted one of our other guys, an ex LAPD SWAT guy, and told him to leave the Craig facility in NLV. He asked her for some ID and she refused. She claimed she had the power of the property owner and was trespassing him.

We had planned to meet at UNLV Wednesday morning so we could head over to S. Rainbow to get some answers but then the Craig incident happened so I instead called Metro for some answers. They validated my understanding of the law (while on the phone) and told us to call Metro if anyone saw the woman again.

So a few minutes later a Metro officer showed up at UNLV and while we were chatting who should show up but that very same woman! We sent Metro inside to talk with her. They then came out and told us that DoD CLAIMED to have the property owner's permission to trespass us from the ENTIRE property. All of this is on video.

She claimed to have a letter of some kind to verify things but never produced anything for us. After being there for about an hour we left voluntarily. We don't think DoD can evict anyone from any of these properties and that Metro is violating our civil rights by facilitating their efforts to do so.

A Henderson PD sargeant told two of our guys that she won't stand for DoD's actions and says that if DoD shows up at the W. Warm Springs facility in Henderson that we should call her so she can come down and set them straight.

Our view is not only are we there legally, fully armed, but that we are also voicing a form of protest against the administration's dismal failure to protect our men and women in uniform here in the homeland. Protest/free speech is still legal here in the United States, though Emperor O may soon outlaw that as well. We also feel that the property owner gives up his ability to trespass when he opens up his building to state and federal entities. He can't block us from using the Post Office, for example.

Our view is that this is public property (the FEDERAL recruiting center), this woman is a public employee, we are US citizens, and as citizens we have a right to legal access to their facilities anytime they're open to the public, including their parking lots. In the UNLV strip mall there is also a US Post Office and (federally regulated) Wells Fargo Bank. There may be other PUBLIC facilities as well. Apparently they are only trying to outlaw us standing outside with our weapons but if we're unarmed they have no problem. They claimed that we were acting as a 'provocation' for the enemy.

We had no legal clarification because Metro kept waffling. No documentation or anyone under the landlord's authority was ever produced. It was simply a DoD employee claiming (behind closed doors) to Metro that they could kick us out. The woman never chatted with or introduced herself to us that morning.

There are more legal angles but we need to keep this flag high on the flag pole. Legal advice is hereby solicited. Feel free to share the video in any way you choose. I'll be improving it as time permits. I simply pulled my phone out and started shooting.

Please watch the video HERE>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcILioB88rM

Grapeshot · Jul 31, 2015

So who actually asked/told anyone to leave? Claiming to have authority and actually using it are not the same.

stealthyeliminator · Jul 31, 2015

Ron_O said:
So here's what's been happening. Our guys have been arming several different facilities across greater Las Vegas, from Henderson to North Las Vegas. I've been focusing on S. Rainbow and UNLV myself. Early this week a mysterious woman ordered an Army sergeant to tell one of our guys to leave the S. Rainbow facility after he'd been there for three hours that day and many days before that.

We speculated that she was DoD. The next morning she confronted one of our other guys, an ex LAPD SWAT guy, and told him to leave the Craig facility in NLV. He asked her for some ID and she refused. She claimed she had the power of the property owner and was trespassing him.

The mysterious woman, who is presumably DoD, Grape. She both ordered someone to leave and claimed to have the authority to do so. Try to keep up buddy

The Big Guy · Jul 31, 2015

Ron_O said:
This is true.

My apologies if you've been following us on other sites but I wanted to bring it back here because I know we have a few attorneys in our group. I see this as one of the ultimate open-carry issues we can exercise.

We need some legal advice and may need to seek a Court Order or more to protect our rights to protect our troops here and nationwide. According to the DoD rep they are trying to shut down our efforts all across the nation.

This is O'Bama's anti-gun agenda in all of it's despicable glory. It's apparent that the sight of armed citizens exercising their 2A rights is an image that he wants to shut down. It's not about the embarrassment, it's about his hatred of legally armed citizens. The troops have LOVED having us around, as have vets, Metro, UNLV police, mall security, shop owners, and the general public.

So here's what's been happening. Our guys have been arming several different facilities across greater Las Vegas, from Henderson to North Las Vegas. I've been focusing on S. Rainbow and UNLV myself. Early this week a mysterious woman ordered an Army sergeant to tell one of our guys to leave the S. Rainbow facility after he'd been there for three hours that day and many days before that.

We speculated that she was DoD. The next morning she confronted one of our other guys, an ex LAPD SWAT guy, and told him to leave the Craig facility in NLV. He asked her for some ID and she refused. She claimed she had the power of the property owner and was trespassing him.

We had planned to meet at UNLV Wednesday morning so we could head over to S. Rainbow to get some answers but then the Craig incident happened so I instead called Metro for some answers. They validated my understanding of the law (while on the phone) and told us to call Metro if anyone saw the woman again.

So a few minutes later a Metro officer showed up at UNLV and while we were chatting who should show up but that very same woman! We sent Metro inside to talk with her. They then came out and told us that DoD CLAIMED to have the property owner's permission to trespass us from the ENTIRE property. All of this is on video.

She claimed to have a letter of some kind to verify things but never produced anything for us. After being there for about an hour we left voluntarily. We don't think DoD can evict anyone from any of these properties and that Metro is violating our civil rights by facilitating their efforts to do so.

A Henderson PD sargeant told two of our guys that she won't stand for DoD's actions and says that if DoD shows up at the W. Warm Springs facility in Henderson that we should call her so she can come down and set them straight.

Our view is not only are we there legally, fully armed, but that we are also voicing a form of protest against the administration's dismal failure to protect our men and women in uniform here in the homeland. Protest/free speech is still legal here in the United States, though Emperor O may soon outlaw that as well. We also feel that the property owner gives up his ability to trespass when he opens up his building to state and federal entities. He can't block us from using the Post Office, for example.

Our view is that this is public property (the FEDERAL recruiting center), this woman is a public employee, we are US citizens, and as citizens we have a right to legal access to their facilities anytime they're open to the public, including their parking lots. In the UNLV strip mall there is also a US Post Office and (federally regulated) Wells Fargo Bank. There may be other PUBLIC facilities as well. Apparently they are only trying to outlaw us standing outside with our weapons but if we're unarmed they have no problem. They claimed that we were acting as a 'provocation' for the enemy.

We had no legal clarification because Metro kept waffling. No documentation or anyone under the landlord's authority was ever produced. It was simply a DoD employee claiming (behind closed doors) to Metro that they could kick us out. The woman never chatted with or introduced herself to us that morning.

There are more legal angles but we need to keep this flag high on the flag pole. Legal advice is hereby solicited. Feel free to share the video in any way you choose. I'll be improving it as time permits. I simply pulled my phone out and started shooting.

Please watch the video HERE>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcILioB88rM

Contact Oath Keepers. Let them know what it going on. http://oathkeepers.org/

The Big Guy

Grapeshot · Jul 31, 2015

stealthyeliminator said:
The mysterious woman, who is presumably DoD, Grape. She both ordered someone to leave and claimed to have the authority to do so. Try to keep up buddy

Telling a third party to leave is not the same as telling you.

jdholmes · Jul 31, 2015

I don't know about the legalities with the recruiting centers, but one thing you should be aware of if you are going to carry is that a bank that is federally insured is not the same thing as being a federal building.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Grapeshot · Jul 31, 2015

jdholmes said:
I don't know about the legalities with the recruiting centers, but one thing you should be aware of if you are going to carry is that a bank that is federally insured is not the same thing as being a federal building.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yep, banks are private property.

skidmark · Jul 31, 2015

IF the female suspected of being DoD has "authority" from the strip mall owner/manager then she needs to produce that (a written document) to the police to establish her legal authority to ask the police to cite you for trespass. That document needs to identify her either by name or as some verifiable representative of some organization to whom a blanket "authority" has been given.

Metro may or may not be willing to act without being provided the bona fides of putatively DoD female. They might be willing to discuss the ramifications of taking any action without verification of the authenticity and authority of DoD female and her "power" to have you cited for trespass. (It sounds as if Metro is not willing to take that risk right now.)

A bit of advice, worth everything you are paying for it: any arguing should be done in the courtroom and not in the street.

A personal thought for which you cannot hold me liable should you take action based on it: a citation is a release without incarceration based on both a promise to show up in court at the appointed time and a promise to cease the action cited for until the court rules. Being jailed could be a possible tactic - look at what Gandhi did leading the protests against the salt tax both i terms of public relations and shutting down the system.

stay safe.

The Big Guy · Jul 31, 2015

skidmark said:
IF the female suspected of being DoD has "authority" from the strip mall owner/manager then she needs to produce that (a written document) to the police to establish her legal authority to ask the police to cite you for trespass. That document needs to identify her either by name or as some verifiable representative of some organization to whom a blanket "authority" has been given.

Metro may or may not be willing to act without being provided the bona fides of putatively DoD female. They might be willing to discuss the ramifications of taking any action without verification of the authenticity and authority of DoD female and her "power" to have you cited for trespass. (It sounds as if Metro is not willing to take that risk right now.)

A bit of advice, worth everything you are paying for it: any arguing should be done in the courtroom and not in the street.

A personal thought for which you cannot hold me liable should you take action based on it: a citation is a release without incarceration based on both a promise to show up in court at the appointed time and a promise to cease the action cited for until the court rules. Being jailed could be a possible tactic - look at what Gandhi did leading the protests against the salt tax both i terms of public relations and shutting down the system.

stay safe.

It would seem to me that if the property owner really did not want them there, they themselves would call the police after having their security, or in person, make their intentions known to the self appointed guards. Sounds might smelly to me.

TBG

HPmatt · Jul 31, 2015

I haven't seen or read anything here that the woman produced ANY proof she was DOD or had bldg owners' permission to trespass you. Heck I could say 'I' was a representative of the owner and told you to get off property and it looks like the cops would say 'okay' and would enforce my command w/o seeing any documentation of 1) who I was and 2) was I authorized as rep of Tenant or Owner to ask you to get off the private property.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JoeSparky · Jul 31, 2015

HPmatt said:
I haven't seen or read anything here that the woman produced ANY proof she was DOD or had bldg owners' permission to trespass you. Heck I could say 'I' was a representative of the owner and told you to get off property and it looks like the cops would say 'okay' and would enforce my command w/o seeing any documentation of 1) who I was and 2) was I authorized as rep of Tenant or Owner to ask you to get off the private property.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can see a DOD rep having authority to trespass from only that space the DOD rented or leased---NOT THE ENTIRE PROPERTY!

Logan 5 · Jul 31, 2015

I used to do property management, and I see mistakes on both sides.

First off, you should have looked into the legality of this BEFORE actually doing it.
In doing that, you should have verified who the owner is.
Then you should have asked the recruiting station NCO for written consent to perform this duty.
Then if the owner has a problem with it, you have consent from the tenant/recruiting station NCO.

Now, reflecting on what has transpired, I think that if you were to discuss this with the NCO/CO and get their view. If they are willing to give you a letter of consent or request, that helps a lot. Make sure you tell them your intent- the service you wish to provide, why, where, when, and that you want to write a letter to the owner of the property asking them for their consent, and make sure those doing the service ARE or WERE verified law enforcement or military.
Ref.: http://www.lancastereaglegazette.co...15/07/23/armed-volunteer-fires-shot/30574117/

In the video, you "babbled" about unrelated stuff, then you "ran the circle" by going over and over and over the same stuff. That wastes your time and the cop's time, and it gives them info for the profile they're doing on you. Guaranteed, they ARE doing a profile on you. If that's ok with you, give them your house key as well.

Use your head NEXT TIME. There's too much at risk here.

As for the property owner, it is not always the best idea in the book to rely on the cops for this stuff. What I found that has always been the best route to take is to personally tell the people (not anything like this, something different) myself. Be polite, be respectful, and ASK them to leave. If they ask why you can always decline to answer.

The chain of command is very simple- Owner ---> Property Manager ---> Tenant

However, if the tenant asks someone or gives consent for someone to be there, technically the owner can't do or say anything UNLESS the safety of other tenants is in question. Or if the guest is damaging property or is causing problems for other tenants. Otherwise, the owner can't really do or say much. And that kind of disagreement between owner/manager/tenant is a bad mix. But remember, it's easier to cancel a lease instead of getting into an argument.

DVC · Jul 31, 2015

Ron_O said:
This is O'Bama's anti-gun agenda in all of it's despicable glory.

Actually, what it looks like is a liability issue.

They would rather take their chances with the terrorists than have you accidentally rope them into an incident due to error. You can almost smell the alcohol fumes from the breath of the ambulance chasers who are eagerly awaiting an incident in which they can sue everyone for everything, and if the DOD didn't do everything practical to run you off, that gives grounds for a claim that they approved of you being there.

As far as the POLITICAL agenda, I'd bet that Doomberg would rather have you there, in hopes that you WILL cause an incident.

DeSchaine · Aug 1, 2015

Hmm. I call shens. Civilian employees of the DoD do NOT have the authority to order around uniformed personnel. Even with recruiters, there is a very clear chain of command. Civilian employees are not in that. Unless she was carrying a letter from SECDEF, SECARM, or Obismal himself, that uniformed (I assume?) E-5 just violated the UCMJ.

Ron_O · Aug 1, 2015

DeSchaine said:
Hmm. I call shens. Civilian employees of the DoD do NOT have the authority to order around uniformed personnel. Even with recruiters, there is a very clear chain of command. Civilian employees are not in that. Unless she was carrying a letter from SECDEF, SECARM, or Obismal himself, that uniformed (I assume?) E-5 just violated the UCMJ.

Metro kept repeating that she had a LETTER that she presented to them. I'd speculate that it's along the lines of what you suggest. They didn't seem to be clear on who she actually was or worked for. Before I turned the camera back on, after they first came out of the meeting, I specifically asked who she worked for. The officer was tight lipped about answering and simply never said, only that she had a LETTER...

The troops seemed to be familiar with her and the RJ reporter suggested that she was probably from Nellis.

If you haven't read the RJ article, it's here: http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/military/armed-citizen-guards-kicked-recruiters-doorsteps

The DoD spokesman told the reporter that they had no such directive in place nor did they have the authority to trespass anyone from private property. The Army spokesman said that he was aware of orders in the west to expel us all from the properties but he didn't know who was behind the order. He named several states and locations in the process.

Frankly I understand the liability issues and I'm surprised that the property owners everywhere didn't react immediately, however OC is legal in Nevada and perhaps their concerns were slight at best, particularly since we were in the direct vicinity of the military itself. I'm not sure that mall owners want to be viewed as anti-American or anti-troops and particularly when the military is paying to be there.

We were vetted many times by Metro, Henderson PD, mall security, and military personnel. No one had any concerns about our presence but rather it was just the opposite. It would be hard to see them be any more supportive than they were. Our interactions were stellar.

We're considering our options for the next steps but you can believe that a lot of us are still going to be out there. We may employ a rotating strategy of deployment, a musical chairs game of moving from center to center.

Regarding my continuing to keep Metro engaged, going round and round so to speak, it was moot. The more I could get on video the better, and those guys were genuinely on our side. My only regret is that I didn't wait another couple of hours for them to produce some type of paperwork (the letter) so I'd have that to move forward with. But I'd only had a couple of hours of sleep and my mind wasn't all that dialed in at the moment after doing that for a week at that point. I knew I couldn't be arrested on first notice but opted to leave before that notice could legally be issued.

MAC702 · Aug 1, 2015

Logan 5 said:
I used to do property management, and I see mistakes on both sides.

First off, you should have looked into the legality of this BEFORE actually doing it.
In doing that, you should have verified who the owner is.
Then you should have asked the recruiting station NCO for written consent to perform this duty.
Then if the owner has a problem with it, you have consent from the tenant/recruiting station NCO.

Now, reflecting on what has transpired, I think that if you were to discuss this with the NCO/CO and get their view. If they are willing to give you a letter of consent or request, that helps a lot. Make sure you tell them your intent- the service you wish to provide, why, where, when, and that you want to write a letter to the owner of the property asking them for their consent, and make sure those doing the service ARE or WERE verified law enforcement or military.
Ref.: http://www.lancastereaglegazette.co...15/07/23/armed-volunteer-fires-shot/30574117/

In the video, you "babbled" about unrelated stuff, then you "ran the circle" by going over and over and over the same stuff. That wastes your time and the cop's time, and it gives them info for the profile they're doing on you. Guaranteed, they ARE doing a profile on you. If that's ok with you, give them your house key as well.

Use your head NEXT TIME. There's too much at risk here....

He had no need to 'look into the legality of it before actually doing it' as it's obvious he never did anything illegal. EVEN IF there comes to be a legal trespass order (per person), that isn't in effect until that individual has been notified. No one would need written consent to be in a public area, unless, again, trying to head off a trespass order from someone pretending to have authority, which still doesn't make the initial presence wrong.

There is no need for those doing this activity to be verified or prior anything, except lawfully armed civilians. The only thing we can ask is that they be safe about it.

I will never Monday-morning-QB someone's recording. I can only hope to have a tenth as much presence of mind as I do when typing on the Internet. Telling him to 'use his head next time' was entirely uncalled for.

Ron_O · Aug 1, 2015

MAC702 said:
He had no need to 'look into the legality of it before actually doing it' as it's obvious he never did anything illegal. EVEN IF there comes to be a legal trespass order (per person), that isn't in effect until that individual has been notified. No one would need written consent to be in a public area, unless, again, trying to head off a trespass order from someone pretending to have authority, which still doesn't make the initial presence wrong.

There is no need for those doing this activity to be verified or prior anything, except lawfully armed civilians. The only thing we can ask is that they be safe about it.

I will never Monday-morning-QB someone's recording. I can only hope to have a tenth as much presence of mind as I do when typing on the Internet. Telling him to 'use his head next time' was entirely uncalled for.

Mac, I pretty much ignored the post you quoted as it's an outline for '50 ways to get them to say NO before you get started'. Not even worth commenting on. What we were doing was highly publicized and broadly visible and even the mall security guards were giving us some very hearty thumb's up, including letting us know that the negative element had left the shopping centers as a result of our presence. Apparently the bad guys are more afraid of the 'armed citizen whack-jobs' than they are of the police or mall security. We don't have to play by the same rules that those guys do LOL.

And, use my head about WHAT? We'd been there a week doing our thing, with ZERO resistance from property owners. In the video I chose to give Metro all the rope it needed to hang itself. They just kept taking more, and all the while the magical 'letter' never appeared. We're guessing that the woman showed Metro something on her phone that resembled an email from someone important. If you watch the video you'll see Metro ask us several times to stick around, not leave, so they 'could do it right'. I guarantee you that this woman's authority had never been challenged until I called Metro on her. When it came time to put up or shut up she had no ball to play with.

They also made it clear several times that we were free to go, so we left. No prior clearance was needed, we've been doing this all over Clark County and except for this ONE SINGLE WOMAN no one associated with any of the malls had even SUGGESTED that we leave. In fact it was quite the opposite, the shop owners invited us in, brought us gifts, and thanked us for being there, they too thankful for the lack of the shady element that often hung around there, in addition to supporting our cause.

BB62 · Aug 2, 2015

Watching for developments.

DeSchaine · Aug 2, 2015

Yeah yeah yeah. Under specific circumstances, with specific orders from those political appointed individuals that are normally automatically sent out due to contingency plans put in place.... yadda yadda yadda. But on a day to day basis, or for stupidly mundane stuff such as this, you couldn't. It's why Army CID agents are required to be active service. Makes the whole command thing during an investigation simpler.

I dont suppose anyone took her picture? Be interesting to see who she is.

Ron_O · Aug 2, 2015

DeSchaine said:
Yeah yeah yeah. Under specific circumstances, with specific orders from those political appointed individuals that are normally automatically sent out due to contingency plans put in place.... yadda yadda yadda. But on a day to day basis, or for stupidly mundane stuff such as this, you couldn't. It's why Army CID agents are required to be active service. Makes the whole command thing during an investigation simpler.

I dont suppose anyone took her picture? Be interesting to see who she is.

She's in the video, outlined in gold early on, dressed in civilian clothing.

I just spoke with a Henderson PD rep and he affirmed that only the building owner can trespass us. I'm not sure it's even legal for DoD to ASK the landowner to trespass us, because that would constitute them violating our rights as American citizens. IMHO they need to keep a hands-off approach, regardless of how they feel about what we're doing. If the landowner approaches them then that's another story. The landowner can be holding back with reservations, waiting for the word from the recruiting centers. Landlords may fear being labeled anti-American or anti-troop so have been keeping their hands off for exactly that reason.

It's my belief that the only thing we can be trespassed for is firearms and only if the center has a no-guns policy. We can't be barred from doing business with federal offices and there's a question as to whether we have a right to PROTEST (free speech) outside of their offices regardless. IMHO the landowners can't have it both ways, accept government money and then disallow the appendages that accompany having them as tenants.

This begs the question, should we target every entrance to these facilities and if so what impact would that have on the other tenants? Would the landowners rather have us in front of the recruitment centers or at every entrance, where we'd be much more visible? We could put out a public notice asking the public not to do business in the centers from which we'd been trespassed and see what kind of impact that had.

O'Bama Sends DoD to Eject Citizen Troop Guardians from Strip Malls in Las Vegas!

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