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Thread: Texas attorney general indicted on felony charges

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Texas attorney general indicted on felony charges

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...say/ar-BBljQAB

    A grand jury has indicted Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton on multiple felony charges, according to several sources who are familiar with the complaints.

    The charges will be unsealed in McKinney on Monday about noon, and a Tarrant County judge has already been appointed to preside over the case, sources told WFAA.

    After the indictments are unsealed, Paxton can surrender to be photographed, fingerprinted and booked into jail.

    It's unclear exactly what Paxton will be indicted for, although a grand jury here has heard evidence that Paxton, 52, violated securities laws.
    Paxton does not have to resign or step down from statewide office as he prepares to face a criminal trial. He can continue to work, just as Gov. Rick Perry did after his two felony indictments in August 2014.
    Please explain to me how this person is able to keep his job as a LAWYER for the state while at the same time being under indictment for a FELONY charge??
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    --snipped--

    Please explain to me how this person is able to keep his job as a LAWYER for the state while at the same time being under indictment for a FELONY charge??
    Maybe because being under indictment is not the same as being determined to be guilty.
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    I believe the term is innocent until proven guilty....

    Because you got arrested for Open Carrying, should you lose your job?
    Last edited by xd shooter; 08-01-2015 at 09:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    I believe the term is innocent until proven guilty....

    Because you got arrested for Open Carrying, should you lose your job?
    Nope. Just your RIGHTS to an effective self-defense until the matter is ultimately resolved in your favor. Or at least that is what current law is regarding any felony indictment or domestic violence misdemeanor, if I'm not mistaken.

    A cop so indicted would be placed on administrative leave until the charges were resolved.

    Seems to me that "officers of the court" and elected officials ought to be subject to some of the same kinds of rules imposed on us commoners.

    Charles
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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    My point is, why is this person who represents the state as the state's attorney, still have his job? If he is charged with a felony, then his judgement as a lawyer is in question. He should NOT be still doing his job until such time as he is cleared of all charges. Period!
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

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    Do felony charges impugn his judgment more than misdemeanor charges, more than fallacious charges? He may beat your rap, he will not beat your ride.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Now days the accusation is almost as bad as the conviction.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    My point is, why is this person who represents the state as the state's attorney, still have his job? If he is charged with a felony, then his judgement as a lawyer is in question. He should NOT be still doing his job until such time as he is cleared of all charges. Period!
    A grand jury indictment is not a charge.
    http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal...jury-work.html
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    My point is, why is this person who represents the state as the state's attorney, still have his job? If he is charged with a felony, then his judgement as a lawyer is in question. He should NOT be still doing his job until such time as he is cleared of all charges. Period!
    Silly me, I always thought that the correctness of one's judgement had to be established in an adversarial process. That's why it's called "questioning one's judgement". The question is raised, a process ensues to determine if one's judgement is in fact impaired. Then we act upon the answer derived.

    I guess I never realized that all it takes is the mere accusation in order to inflict punishment.

    It is rather nice of you to be willing to give him back his job if he is in fact found not guilty. Would that include all back pay and benefits including seniority?

    stay safe.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    The voters can gather signatures and have a recall election to remove the guy.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Maybe because being under indictment is not the same as being determined to be guilty.
    This is Truth! You can accuse me of almost anything, until proven, it is just that, an accusation. Nothing more.

    BUT......this part mite sting a bit

    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Now days the accusation is almost as bad as the conviction.
    If he is innocent of any charges on monday, I will stand with him. That said, if he is proven guilty of a felony, then I will stand with the Law.
    Innocent until proven otherwise.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Nope. Just your RIGHTS to an effective self-defense until the matter is ultimately resolved in your favor. Or at least that is what current law is regarding any felony indictment or domestic violence misdemeanor, if I'm not mistaken.

    A cop so indicted would be placed on administrative leave until the charges were resolved.

    Seems to me that "officers of the court" and elected officials ought to be subject to some of the same kinds of rules imposed on us commoners.

    Charles
    Ok, lets put it another way. As utbagpiper said, If any one of us were to be charged with a felony, our right to keep and bear arms would be stripped away until either the charge was dismissed or ultimately, we were to be found "not guilty" of the crime. Through the whole process, how many of us would keep our jobs? How bout those of us that need a background check for our jobs? What about military personnel? How many employers out there would let you keep your job for the duration of the trial? This also falls on ethical standards.

    How many here would continue to rely on their lawyer that has been charged with a serious crime such as a felony? Could you trust his/her judgement? If he/she has the charges dismissed or is found not guilty then fine, back to business. But until such time, this person should NOT be providing legal advice to the state. There is constant talk about "some animals" being treated better then others. If the common man gets treated a certain way at the onset of a felony charge, why is the state attorney general being treated better? And a better question, why are people here supporting his better treatment? Hold everyone to the same standards regardless of their political position or on whom their employer is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    A grand jury indictment is not a charge.
    http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal...jury-work.html
    Grapeshot, you need to read that carefully. a grand jury indictment is a charge. It's an alternative to the prosecutor bringing the charge his/herself. In this case, the state attorney general is surrendering himself for booking as of Monday.


    Regardless, I'm done. It's obvious that people here would rather attack me then the actual problem.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

    There are two constants when dealing with liberals:
    1) Liberals never quit until they are satisfied.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Ok, lets put it another way. As utbagpiper said, If any one of us were to be charged with a felony, our right to keep and bear arms would be stripped away until either the charge was dismissed or ultimately, we were to be found "not guilty" of the crime. Through the whole process, how many of us would keep our jobs? How bout those of us that need a background check for our jobs? What about military personnel? How many employers out there would let you keep your job for the duration of the trial? This also falls on ethical standards.

    How many here would continue to rely on their lawyer that has been charged with a serious crime such as a felony? Could you trust his/her judgement? If he/she has the charges dismissed or is found not guilty then fine, back to business. But until such time, this person should NOT be providing legal advice to the state. There is constant talk about "some animals" being treated better then others. If the common man gets treated a certain way at the onset of a felony charge, why is the state attorney general being treated better? And a better question, why are people here supporting his better treatment? Hold everyone to the same standards regardless of their political position or on whom their employer is.



    Grapeshot, you need to read that carefully. a grand jury indictment is a charge. It's an alternative to the prosecutor bringing the charge his/herself. In this case, the state attorney general is surrendering himself for booking as of Monday.


    Regardless, I'm done. It's obvious that people here would rather attack me then the actual problem.
    They are attacking the "problem". The problem, of course, is your "guilty until proven innocent" way of thinking as a solution.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Maybe because being under indictment is not the same as being determined to be guilty.
    The Bar in most states is the body who decides if a person will have their license to practice law suspended -- not the courts.

    A conviction in court should NOT be required to jettison an immoral attorney from the Bar Association.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    They are attacking the "problem". The problem, of course, is your "guilty until proven innocent" way of thinking as a solution.
    I didn't take Grim's post as supporting the whole wrongful treatment.

    I took it as treating everyone equally under the law and procedures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post

    I took it as treating everyone equally under the law and procedures.
    Every participant in the legal system (police, to judges to lawyers) protect their own. And they expect the same treatment in return.

    Royals don't suffer the law like Serfs.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    My point is, why is this person who represents the state as the state's attorney, still have his job? If he is charged with a felony, then his judgement as a lawyer is in question. He should NOT be still doing his job until such time as he is cleared of all charges. Period!
    He is an elected officer, he can only be removed from office as outlined in the state constitution.

    Just like our WA state auditor Troy Kelley.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    They are attacking the "problem". The problem, of course, is your "guilty until proven innocent" way of thinking as a solution.
    Maybe you should reread what I have been saying. At no point did I say this person was "guilty until proven innocent". I said that until such time as he is cleared of all charges in one form or another, he should not be representing the state as it's attorney general. If that means he is removed from office on a temporary basis (and the next person in line steps up to take his place) till this issue is resolved, then fine.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

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    Because politicians and lawyers write the laws and they know sooner or later they will trip up and get caught on something so they make it advantages as possible to themselfs

    When the criminals write the laws what do you expect.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Maybe you should reread what I have been saying. At no point did I say this person was "guilty until proven innocent". I said that until such time as he is cleared of all charges in one form or another, he should not be representing the state as it's attorney general. If that means he is removed from office on a temporary basis (and the next person in line steps up to take his place) till this issue is resolved, then fine.
    There is no end to the length of that dog's tail.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    He is an elected officer, he can only be removed from office as outlined in the state constitution.

    Just like our WA state auditor Troy Kelley.
    An attorney can be disbarred without any popular vote. Even one who holds an elected position.

    Boo ya

    (ain't gonna happen though. Snakes protect snakes).
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 08-03-2015 at 12:02 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Maybe you should reread what I have been saying. At no point did I say this person was "guilty until proven innocent". I said that until such time as he is cleared of all charges in one form or another, he should not be representing the state as it's attorney general. If that means he is removed from office on a temporary basis (and the next person in line steps up to take his place) till this issue is resolved, then fine.
    Uh Ok, let's try this the simple way:

    That's pretty much the definition of "guilty until proven innocent".

    Of course, the good news is that there are others that have provided the legal definition so we don't have to start from ground central. Which has apparently passed you by.

    No offense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    The Bar in most states is the body who decides if a person will have their license to practice law suspended -- not the courts.

    A conviction in court should NOT be required to jettison an immoral attorney from the Bar Association.
    Even the Bar Association has a procedure they are required to follow. That procedure includes an adversarial hearing with the presentation of evidence and the cross-examination of witnesses. The "usual" procedure is to wait and see if there is a criminal conviction because that makes the disbarment procedure straightforward.

    Additionally, while the internal events of a disbarment hearing are private, the result is not. The defendant in a criminal trial is either put at a disadvantage if disbarred prior to trial (the prosecutor will beat that drum like a rented mule)or at an advantage if not disbarred (the defense will dance all over the fact that the defendant's fellow attorneys (who know the law better than the jury) decided there was no guilt).

    But what the heck, you want to prejudice the outcome of a criminal trial because feelings.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    Uh Ok, let's try this the simple way:

    That's pretty much the definition of "guilty until proven innocent".

    Of course, the good news is that there are others that have provided the legal definition so we don't have to start from ground central. Which has apparently passed you by.

    No offense.
    Yet they have no qualms about acting this way toward the mundanes.

    Get charged with something, no guns, no seeing kids, no driving, no no no until the trial.

    Some animals are more equal.
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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Even the Bar Association has a procedure they are required to follow. That procedure includes an adversarial hearing with the presentation of evidence and the cross-examination of witnesses. The "usual" procedure is to wait and see if there is a criminal conviction because that makes the disbarment procedure straightforward.

    Additionally, while the internal events of a disbarment hearing are private, the result is not. The defendant in a criminal trial is either put at a disadvantage if disbarred prior to trial (the prosecutor will beat that drum like a rented mule)or at an advantage if not disbarred (the defense will dance all over the fact that the defendant's fellow attorneys (who know the law better than the jury) decided there was no guilt).

    But what the heck, you want to prejudice the outcome of a criminal trial because feelings.

    stay safe.
    Translation: Rats protect their own.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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