Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Washington Cop asks open carrier if he is feeling erratic.

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, United States
    Posts
    125

    Washington Cop asks open carrier if he is feeling erratic.

    Tacoma, WA – On 8/6/2015, at approximately 1:20 pm, I was walking down the street when I noticed about 3 marked police vehicles and 1 unmarked SUV in the area. Eventually a motorcycle officer pulled up and the officer directed me to come over to him. Upon complying with the officer’s request, he immediately asked me if I was “in some kind of bad mood or an erratic state of mind.” Knowing better than to answer questions from law enforcement, I politely informed him that I don’t answer questions from law enforcement. He then informed me that a citizen had “called” and reported that I was acting erratically. I thought that was perplexing, since I was simply ambulating with one foot in front of the other, like I normally do. The officer did not press the issue or resort to failed intimidation tactics. He simply was responding to a call. I informed him that I understood, but I still chose to exercise my right to not answer questions and go on about my way.

    Some might think a citizen who refuses to answer questions is rude to a police officer who has a hard and dangerous job. I submit that no good can EVER come out of talking to a police officer (unless you have called them for a service) since the relationship between citizen and police officer is adversarial in nature. I believe it is best to be informed of the laws, exercise your right to remain silent, and go on about your business. Once a citizen starts answering questions, they run the risk of law enforcement officials using the words of the citizen against him/her. It is not rude to be free and decide not to comply with police officers, if you have done nothing illegal and there is no legal reason for an interaction with them. Often times “discussions” with citizens turn into probable cause for further investigation or detention.

    The following is the video of the encounter with the law enforcement officer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7BH_WqK6yQ

    - Rogue Reflections –
    www.roguereflectionsphotography.com

  2. #2
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Lacey, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,991
    Why do yo keep getting hassled?
    Iv'e OC'd for about 6+ years, and Iv'e never had an issue.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
    http://nwfood.shelfreliance.com

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766
    Didn't watch the video. Like your handling, though.

    Have you considered following up on the false report phone call?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, United States
    Posts
    125
    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    Why do yo keep getting hassled?
    Iv'e OC'd for about 6+ years, and Iv'e never had an issue.
    Not sure. Maybe walking with one foot in front of the other, in a left-right-left fashion, is the new erratic?

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, United States
    Posts
    125
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Didn't watch the video. Like your handling, though.

    Have you considered following up on the false report phone call?
    I just took this video a little while ago. I will be submitting (as per my norm) the audio for the 911 call, through Public Disclosure. I am entitled to the call and I think it would be interesting to hear. I will include that audio once I get it. I will decide what to do after I hear the call.

  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    Why do yo keep getting hassled?
    Iv'e OC'd for about 6+ years, and Iv'e never had an issue.
    Some people get hassled some don't.

    I have several times by the cops. For doing nothing unlawful.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  7. #7
    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Yelm, Washington USA
    Posts
    419
    excellent work as always rougue, I guess your just lucky, I have not had any LEO interactions in years when I OC.
    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

  8. #8
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Greater Eastside Washington
    Posts
    4,690
    Rogue and I should go for a walk around Redmond, Washington.

    Kirkland and Bellevue should also be on the list.

    I can hold the camera. Hopefully I could OC again after, drum roll please, September 11th.

    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Philipsburg, Montana
    Posts
    3,139
    Quote Originally Posted by RogueReflections View Post
    Some might think a citizen who refuses to answer questions is rude to a police officer who has a hard and dangerous job.
    I submit that no good can EVER come out of talking to a police officer (unless you have called them for a service) since the relationship between citizen and police officer is adversarial in nature.
    You have the Right to remain silent, everything you say can, and will, be held against you.................Everything you say will be used to support your claim, said no LEO ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Have you considered following up on the false report phone call?
    Absolutely. You were "swatted" and that ***** needs to be stopped. A few public convictions, followed by hanging would be nice.


    gee, cuts chinese swear words too?
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 08-07-2015 at 06:50 PM. Reason: fat fingers
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, United States
    Posts
    125
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Rogue and I should go for a walk around Redmond, Washington.

    Kirkland and Bellevue should also be on the list.

    I can hold the camera. Hopefully I could OC again after, drum roll please, September 11th.

    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    That would be a fun way to celebrate your re-entering into the OC realm. LoL

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, United States
    Posts
    125

    Was I "Swatted?"

    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    You have the Right to remain silent, everything you say can, and will, be held against you.................Everything you say will be used to support your claim, said no LEO ever.


    Absolutely. You were "swatted" and that ***** needs to be stopped. A few public convictions, followed by hanging would be nice.


    gee, cuts chinese swear words too?
    It is interesting to consider this may have been a "swatting" call. I had not considered it as an option until someone suggested it in another forum. If that was the case, this officer handled himself well in the way he responded. If he was doing the normal "we got a call" thing, he still did not press the issue, which is what I was interested in determining if he might be inclined to do. Either way, I will be doing a number of records requests to try to get the full picture of the story behind the encounter.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Kitsap Co., Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,234

    ... give the caller a consiquence ...

    I don’t know if it’s possible to find out “who” made the call, but if possible, I’d file charges and a lawsuit against them, make it as public as possible so as to make an example of them, and give others who consider the same tactic reason for pause. If allowed to consider it a successful harassing tactic, then others may do the same without consiquence.
    ~ ENCLAVE vmc ~
    The Enclave is looking for patriotic motorcycle riders in Washington State who support liberty and freedom for all. ~ Check us out!
    ~
    * " To be swayed neither by the opponent nor by his sword is the essence of swordsmanship." - Miyamoto Musashi.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Greater Eastside Washington
    Posts
    4,690
    Quote Originally Posted by Batousaii View Post
    I don’t know if it’s possible to find out “who” made the call, but if possible, I’d file charges and a lawsuit against them, make it as public as possible so as to make an example of them, and give others who consider the same tactic reason for pause. If allowed to consider it a successful harassing tactic, then others may do the same without consiquence.
    I agree with this idea and I agree that we all should try this. Is there an attorney who would take this case? Maybe file to force the prosecutor to do his/her job by prosecuting the caller with misuse/abuse of 911 service.

    I would say the charge would be attempted murder.

    Then file a civil charge.

    If the system was fair this would work. Now we have corrupt public servants and judges who would side against you (the gun owner).



    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  14. #14
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Batousaii View Post
    I don’t know if it’s possible to find out “who” made the call, but if possible, I’d file charges and a lawsuit against them, make it as public as possible so as to make an example of them, and give others who consider the same tactic reason for pause. If allowed to consider it a successful harassing tactic, then others may do the same without consiquence.
    it should be, just PDR the audio of the 911 call, those are public record, normally the dispatcher will ask what the complainants name is and confirm the phone number they're calling from.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  15. #15
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I agree with this idea and I agree that we all should try this. Is there an attorney who would take this case? Maybe file to force the prosecutor to do his/her job by prosecuting the caller with misuse/abuse of 911 service.

    I would say the charge would be attempted murder.

    Then file a civil charge.

    If the system was fair this would work. Now we have corrupt public servants and judges who would side against you (the gun owner).



    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    remember though, due process also cuts to the 911 caller, the prosecutor would have to prove the caller was malicious in their intent. an attempted murder would NEVER fly, they would have to prove that the caller 1) made a phony 911 call 2)with the intent to cause death to RR tell statements that they knew were false and 3) reasonably expected the police would use deadly force against RR based soley on the information they provided. good luck proving that.

    it's not ilelgal to be wrong when you call 911, only if you lie or tie up their resources.

    a few months ago I was delivering to a customer in a part of a town where all the businesses were closed, so I go to the back of our customer, enter the code in their key box and grab the key so i can open the back door and start delivering. across the street at another business were these two people who looked in their teens, wearing dark clothing, walking around a business and trying at door handles, I called the king county sheriff and reported this as suspicious activity.

    if the deputies showed up and searched these two and found everything legitimate, they were really on the up and up, should I be faced with charges for being wrong?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Larimer County, CO
    Posts
    212
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    it should be, just PDR the audio of the 911 call, those are public record, normally the dispatcher will ask what the complainants name is and confirm the phone number they're calling from.
    The problem is that nobody is required to give their name and people call 911 for some of the dumbest things. I once heard a dispatched call over the scanner from a person who called because his neighbor's rooster woke him up at 6 am!

  17. #17
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    The problem is that nobody is required to give their name and people call 911 for some of the dumbest things. I once heard a dispatched call over the scanner from a person who called because his neighbor's rooster woke him up at 6 am!
    true they're not required but many do.

    it makes sense to start there because it's the easiest thnig to search. and maybe he'll get lucky and get a name, number, possibly an address.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Larimer County, CO
    Posts
    212
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    true they're not required but many do.

    it makes sense to start there because it's the easiest thnig to search. and maybe he'll get lucky and get a name, number, possibly an address.
    Good point. They do ask and most people probably give it out now that you mention it.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Greater Eastside Washington
    Posts
    4,690
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    remember though, due process also cuts to the 911 caller, the prosecutor would have to prove the caller was malicious in their intent. an attempted murder would NEVER fly, they would have to prove that the caller 1) made a phony 911 call 2)with the intent to cause death to RR tell statements that they knew were false and 3) reasonably expected the police would use deadly force against RR based soley on the information they provided. good luck proving that.

    it's not ilelgal to be wrong when you call 911, only if you lie or tie up their resources.

    a few months ago I was delivering to a customer in a part of a town where all the businesses were closed, so I go to the back of our customer, enter the code in their key box and grab the key so i can open the back door and start delivering. across the street at another business were these two people who looked in their teens, wearing dark clothing, walking around a business and trying at door handles, I called the king county sheriff and reported this as suspicious activity.

    if the deputies showed up and searched these two and found everything legitimate, they were really on the up and up, should I be faced with charges for being wrong?
    Seeming to check for unsecured doors is PC and RAS. That is a legitimate sign of a possible crime about to be committed.

    Openly Carrying a pistol is not illegal. Also stated on some anti-gun organizations they admit to trying to get LACs killed through police interactions by calling 911.

    Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  20. #20
    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bothell, WA
    Posts
    565
    Allegations of "behaving erratically" are a common ruse used by LEOs to create probable cause to arrest someone who is carrying. The term "erratic" appears frequently in police reports to support arrests of firearm carriers. It's utter rubbish in most cases. I suggest that being approached by an armed LEO for no reason other than the fact that you are lawfully carrying is "erratic behavior" as it is not supported by the law and has been openly criticized by the courts as not establishing an exigent circumstance.
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •