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Thread: Analysis of S2002: Mental Health and Safe Communities Act + Everytown response

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Analysis of S2002: Mental Health and Safe Communities Act + Everytown response

    Partial text, analysis, and Everytown's response at

    http://gunfreezone.net/wordpress/ind...-questioned-2/

    Be sure to follow the links.

    h/t to Miguel for putting the two together and h/t to Sebastian for digging to find the text and doing the analysis.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    In The Congressional Record August 5, 2015 114th Congress, 1st Session Issue: Vol. 16

    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Da Rat Bastid's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    I, for one, am watching this bill like the proverbial hawk, since I am a disabled person who is drawing Social Security payments and has a representative payee.

    I'm not too optimistic about its chances yet, since Obama would surely veto this blatant defiance of his executive authority, and there are nowhere nearly enough pro-RKBA members of the U.S. House and Senate to override that.

    Why couldn't Senator Cornwyn simply have stuck this legislation into one of those "must pass" bills, like the ones for the annual budget? Is there some rule that limits such tactics to legislation that screws over John and Jane Q. Public instead of helping them?

    My question is this: if legislative efforts fail to stop the adding of Social Security recipients with rep. payees to the "can't buy guns" list, what sort of judicial options would someone like me have, given that I've not fallen into any "prohibited persons" category previously?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Rat Bastid View Post
    ?

    My question is this: if legislative efforts fail to stop the adding of Social Security recipients with rep. payees to the "can't buy guns" list, what sort of judicial options would someone like me have, given that I've not fallen into any "prohibited persons" category previously?
    Right off the top of my head I think your judicial options are limited to trying to get the charge reduced to a misdemeanor or bargaining for how long you will go to [expletive deleted]-in-the-[naughty word deleted] federal prison.

    Humptey Dumptey, SCOTUS, the ATFEIEIO, and those Moms Demanding Attention all agree that words mean what they want them to mean.

    Better sell your guns to me now, before they are all confiscated and melted down for rebar to build the prison you are going to go to.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member Da Rat Bastid's Avatar
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    WHAT charge, Skid?

    Please read my previous post again. The only thing of which I'm guilty is having a representative payee for my Social Security payments. That's not a crime, yet it will (if Obama's plan isn't stopped by this legislation) deny me my RKBA. There'd be nothing to "get reduced".

    To clarify, when I speak of "judicial options" I speak of the possibility of suing this administration's pants off.
    Last edited by Da Rat Bastid; 08-15-2015 at 01:46 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Rat Bastid View Post
    WHAT charge, Skid?

    Please read my previous post again. The only thing of which I'm guilty is having a representative payee for my Social Security payments. That's not a crime, yet it will (if Obama's plan isn't stopped by this legislation) deny me my RKBA. There'd be nothing to "get reduced".

    To clarify, when I speak of "judicial options" I speak of the possibility of suing this administration's pants off.
    Think Skid is just jerking your chain and giggling at the sound of it.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member Da Rat Bastid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Think Skid is just jerking your chain and giggling at the sound of it.
    Ah, I see.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Rat Bastid View Post
    WHAT charge, Skid?

    Please read my previous post again. The only thing of which I'm guilty is having a representative payee for my Social Security payments. That's not a crime, yet it will (if Obama's plan isn't stopped by this legislation) deny me my RKBA. There'd be nothing to "get reduced".

    To clarify, when I speak of "judicial options" I speak of the possibility of suing this administration's pants off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Think Skid is just jerking your chain and giggling at the sound of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Da Rat Bastid View Post
    Ah, I see.
    I don't think either of you really see. The intent is to create a whole new bunch of prohibited persons, go through the list and find out which ones have guns, and take those guns away from them. And when they come to get your guns and find you have them you are most likely to be charged with illegal possession of firearms.

    This is not mere tin-foil hat speculation based on the fact that I am paranoid. There is more than enough out there showing that the antis want to take our guns and are willing to go to any extreme (including encouraging anybody but themselves) to either outright murder us or set it up for some state minion to do their dirty work.

    So far there are only a few examples of how to expect the .gov to handle things and all of them look downright dangerous for the continued safety, if not actual existence, of the gun owner. They are not sending out letters asking folks to please call up and either make an appointment for Ossifer Friendly to come to your house to collect your guns (preferred) or for you to bring your guns down to the police station. And when Ossifer Friendly shows up he is more than likely to bring a few of his fellow Boys in Blue - not to assist in carrying out that arsenal in your man-cave but to make sure that you do not change your mind at the last moment and do something/anything they would call "obstructing justice" or "furtive movements".

    I'm thinking they would love to give you a receipt for all the guns and ammo they haul out of your place. Maybe not on the scene but surely within a few days when they've had a chance to paw through it for all the good stuff and then inventory the rest of what they took away. (OK, not every police dept. is going to have employees that will steal firearms, but there are more than enough documented reports of that happening.) That receipt you get will then be used as prima facie evidence that you possessed the firearm(s) after having been declared a prohibited person. QED and "Welcome to Club Fed, the ghetto* version".

    I do not expect the .gov to start out doing this wholesale, but as they build up a body of cases that do not survive even basic appeal they will see that most folks are not willing to give over their guns barrel first and their ammo one bullet at a time.

    As for myself I expect the .gov to try and figure out any way to avoid having to pay for even just the life-sustaining medical care while I'm incarcerated. That's not just cracker-barrel bravado talking - I've had some conversations with US Attorneys, FBI workers ('cause I will not talk even consensually with ATFEIEIO or its minions) and most importantly with both administrative and medical types in the FBOP.

    stay safe.

    * - No, that is not some racial remark. Go look at the meaning of the word and especially how it has been used politically in the recent past.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member Da Rat Bastid's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Ah, I see. *nods* So, Skid, even if one were to take your word for it regarding the info from your Fedgov contacts (which I do) that Uncle Sam is even now preparing for massive nationwide gun confiscation campaigns, your advice is to completely ignore the final clause of the First Amendment, and not even to try to do anything non-violent about these unconstitutional executive fiats at all? Is that what you're saying here?

    Hey, Grapeshot, could you please refresh my memory regarding what this website's slogan/motto is?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    There is prepping and there is prepping. Right now I'd say the notion is in the "Let's kick this around and see where the easy and hard points would be" stage.

    Ignore petitioning for redress of grievances? No way - although I'd appreciate hearing just what your grievance is at this point. Sounds to me you are more at the "expressing an opinion" stage.

    What to do at this stage of the game? Start by making your congresscritters (all 3 of them) believe they will be better served in the long run by not just supporting S.2002 but amending it such that a person caught up in the executive fiat does not have to go through a judicial and then administrative process to get back to status quo ante but has their record expunged unless there is documentation of the type of hearing Cornyn says is needed to put them on the NICS program to begin with.

    Start working on the publicity/PR campaign to not only counter but smear CCGV, Brady (what's left of them), Everytown, Moms Demanding Attention, Bloomberg's money and Bloomberg himself. Not countering their BS with facts, but smearing them the same way they are smearing us. The gloves come off and the truth comes out.

    In your particular case? File for both temporary and permanent injunctions against Social Security submitting your name to NICS until/unless you have been through the judicial process required by law. Find out who else is under similar threat and create a class action.

    I'm not intending to be mean or nasty or even snarky (although those are my usual and natural states) but I remind you that your question was
    My question is this: if legislative efforts fail to stop the adding of Social Security recipients with rep. payees to the "can't buy guns" list, what sort of judicial options would someone like me have, given that I've not fallen into any "prohibited persons" category previously?
    You did not ask what you can do to stop the process before you got caught up in it. I gave you he best answer I could come up with that did not involve parsing both the executive/administrative directives, the agency(ies) guidance to the field on what to do and who to do it to, and S.2002. I could do that for you but it would entail a) at a minimum 90 days and b) also at a minimum an advance payment of $10,000.00 and c) a non-disclosure agreement to protect my investment of time and cogitation from being diluted by having it spread around to others who are not willing to reimburse me for my efforts. (And no, I am not holding myself out as a subject-matter expert on any of this. I'm just some guy who can usually wade through bureaucratic BS thanks to both education and professional training in doing that sort of thing.)

    OTOH, it would require nothing more than asking me to throw whatever I have to offer into developing and moving forward a class action.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member Da Rat Bastid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    What to do at this stage of the game? Start by making your congresscritters (all 3 of them) believe they will be better served in the long run by not just supporting S.2002 but amending it such that a person caught up in the executive fiat does not have to go through a judicial and then administrative process to get back to status quo ante but has their record expunged unless there is documentation of the type of hearing Cornyn says is needed to put them on the NICS program to begin with.

    Start working on the publicity/PR campaign to not only counter but smear CCGV, Brady (what's left of them), Everytown, Moms Demanding Attention, Bloomberg's money and Bloomberg himself. Not countering their BS with facts, but smearing them the same way they are smearing us. The gloves come off and the truth comes out.

    In your particular case? File for both temporary and permanent injunctions against Social Security submitting your name to NICS until/unless you have been through the judicial process required by law. Find out who else is under similar threat and create a class action.
    Sounds like a decent start. Thanks. I'll get on that.

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