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Thread: WEBN Fireworks Open Carry/Firearm Education Get-Together (2015) - Cincinnati

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    WEBN Fireworks Open Carry/Firearm Education Get-Together (2015) - Cincinnati

    Every Labor Day weekend Cincinnati radio station WEBN and various corporate sponsors put on a festival called Riverfest, featuring food, drink, and entertainment, concluding with a HUGE fireworks show. The festival is on both the Ohio and Kentucky sides of the Ohio River in Cincinnati, and an estimated 500,000 people attend.

    Last year, as with prior years, the sponsors prohibited "weapons", in violation of Ohio law and their contracts with Cincinnati. So the open carry event was part social, part education, and part protest - since multiple communications with WEBN/Clear Channel, the Cincinnati Police Department and the Cincinnati Law Department failed to receive a response. Finally, following a report on Channel 12 news, the City Solicitor acknowledged what was already known: that WEBN/Clear Channel's "no weapons" policy wasn't backed by law.

    Despite this, it wasn't until the morning of the fireworks that signage was changed. Also, some "security" people insisted that guns and visible knives were still forbidden, and WEBN's website remained unchanged. Regardless, the event went off quite well, and was a great success in all aspects. Some of us also walked over to Kentucky and back.

    THIS YEAR, although WEBN's website initially indicated "no weapons", it was changed a few days ago following my note to a representative of Clear Channel. So this year's open carry event will be part education and part social.

    Everyone is hereby invited to come armed (** SIDEARMS ONLY **, please) openly, concealed, both, or neither, to the event and the fireworks afterward. Event meetup point and timing is to be determined and will be based on the number of people who accept the invitation.

    Please read more on the Facebook event page, found here: https://www.facebook.com/events/882765588471581/

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Why sidearms only? its a public event, so what would YOU do if a couple people showed up to your public meeting place with a couple AKs, or an Uzi strapped on their backs? You say its for partly education, but say side-arms only, so, what, you're only seeking to inform and educate people that side-arms are a right to carry openly, but publicly chastise people for exercising their right to carry long-arms? Seems counter-intuitive to me. Don't think I'll have anything to do with anyone who promotes side-arm carry only at a public event, and mentions that it's side-arms only.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Why sidearms only? its a public event, so what would YOU do if a couple people showed up to your public meeting place with a couple AKs, or an Uzi strapped on their backs? You say its for partly education, but say side-arms only, so, what, you're only seeking to inform and educate people that side-arms are a right to carry openly, but publicly chastise people for exercising their right to carry long-arms? Seems counter-intuitive to me. Don't think I'll have anything to do with anyone who promotes side-arm carry only at a public event, and mentions that it's side-arms only.
    Did you forget where you are? OCDO has a purpose (to normalize the open carry of holstered handguns) and a rule (no discussion of LGOC).

    I think I understand why you are bringing up LGOC, but is off topic and verboten here. There are many places where such discussion is welcome.

    And thank you for saying that those long stick-like things we don't talk about here should arrive "strapped on their backs" - as opposed to dangling between their legs on single-point slings.

    stay safe.
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    Drake, you are imo besmirching a man who has been on the front lines of promoting all types of legal carry not only here in Ohio but also Kentucky and Missouri not just with words but in person activities for over a decade. That sits badly with me and probably lots of others on here.


    Edit: BB62 was also part of a similar event in Indianapolis Indiana when called at a time when such an action was badly needed.
    Last edited by Brian D.; 08-21-2015 at 07:44 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian D. View Post
    Drake, you are imo besmirching a man who has been on the front lines of promoting all types of legal carry not only here in Ohio but also Kentucky and Missouri not just with words but in person activities for over a decade. That sits badly with me and probably lots of others on here.

    Edit: BB62 was also part of a similar event in Indianapolis Indiana when called at a time when such an action was badly needed.
    Thank you for the kind words.

    I probably can't say much about the poster you referenced without violating OCDO's terms of service, so I will just say that I always look forward to conversing with those on OCDO who disagree, those who engage in constructive criticism and those who ask sincere questions. But I don't have much tolerance for those who snipe from the sidelines or who refuse to look at "the big picture". All that being the case, I will not be responding the poster you referenced.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    * Communications Status Report *

    Despite the passage of more than a week, and apparently demonstrating the low regard with which radio listeners and the citizenry, respectively, are held - neither WEBN/ClearChannel or the City of Cincinnati has responded to my e-mail of 8/12/15 (to Justin Tabas of ClearChannel/IHeartMedia, cc'ed to the authorities) which said in part:

    "As you may recall, I communicated with you last year (8/21/14) regarding WEBN/Clear Channel's "weapons" prohibition at the WEBN Fireworks.

    Despite the fact that last year neither you or anyone else from WEBN/Clear Channel, the Cincinnati Police Department or the Cincinnati Law Department contacted me back, after a TV report in which the City Solicitor finally acknowledged that the "prohibition" wasn't legal, signage was changed at the entrances to the event. Unfortunately, the signage wasn't changed until *the morning of the event*, "security" people at at least one entrance thought that weapons of all kinds (guns & knives) were still prohibited, and WEBN's website remained unchanged.

    ...So, I'm writing to ask 1) if whatever signage you have will will either reference "illegal" weapons or not reference weapons at all, and 2) if your "security" staff will be appropriately informed regarding Ohio law and WEBN's revised weapons policy.

    In another vein, this communication is meant to notify the authorities that it is my intention to carry one or more *sidearms* at the event, openly and/or concealed. I trust that the appropriate parties will be notified of the legality of me doing so.

    Also, and simply because last year I and others enjoyed not only the fireworks, but also the drinks, food, and social aspects of attending, it's quite possible that I will be joined by other similarly armed individuals this year, in what I hope and expect will be a strictly social get-together.

    Thank you for your attention, and I look forward to hearing back from you as well as any other addressee of this e-mail."

    No response is apparently par for the course!

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Why sidearms only? its a public event, so what would YOU do if a couple people showed up to your public meeting place with a couple AKs, or an Uzi strapped on their backs? You say its for partly education, but say side-arms only, so, what, you're only seeking to inform and educate people that side-arms are a right to carry openly, but publicly chastise people for exercising their right to carry long-arms? Seems counter-intuitive to me. Don't think I'll have anything to do with anyone who promotes side-arm carry only at a public event, and mentions that it's side-arms only.
    We are not in a war zone. We are not in a disaster zone. We are not hunting big game. We are not trying to convey to the general public that we are lunatics. Perception is everything.

    We are trying to convey the image of everyday people carrying sidearms. We want to look approachable. We want to educate. We want people to walk away with a positive feeling.

    Your approach is lets shove it down their throat. That doesn't work with the public.

    So, thank-you for not participating.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Why sidearms only?
    Don't think I'll have anything to do with anyone who promotes side-arm carry only at a public event, and mentions that it's side-arms only.
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Perception is everything.

    We are trying to convey the image of everyday people carrying sidearms. We want to look approachable. We want to educate. We want people to walk away with a positive feeling.

    Your approach is lets shove it down their throat. That doesn't work with the public.

    So, thank-you for not participating.
    You seem to be a troublemaker. These "in your face" tactics seemed to work for the "lgbt community" , but in this case you will alienate the very people we are trying to reach. Scaring the cr@p out of people with LGs, just because you can, is, IMHO, @ssinine. Get over yourself and do something positive instead of stirring the pot needlessly.
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 08-23-2015 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Not a rant, is Truth!
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Why sidearms only? its a public event, so what would YOU do if a couple people showed up to your public meeting place with a couple AKs, or an Uzi strapped on their backs? You say its for partly education, but say side-arms only, so, what, you're only seeking to inform and educate people that side-arms are a right to carry openly, but publicly chastise people for exercising their right to carry long-arms? Seems counter-intuitive to me. Don't think I'll have anything to do with anyone who promotes side-arm carry only at a public event, and mentions that it's side-arms only.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Did you forget where you are? OCDO has a purpose (to normalize the open carry of holstered handguns) and a rule (no discussion of LGOC).

    I think I understand why you are bringing up LGOC, but is off topic and verboten here. There are many places where such discussion is welcome.

    And thank you for saying that those long stick-like things we don't talk about here should arrive "strapped on their backs" - as opposed to dangling between their legs on single-point slings.

    stay safe.
    Indeed we promote and defend legal OC of properly holster handguns in daily, routine life.

    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control and lack of trigger guard coverage, we cannot support long gun open carry.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    From this year's event description: "** Those who have attended previous events I've organized know that I tend to carry both a long arm and a sidearm at events, but in the crowd situation that will develop at the fireworks, appropriate muzzle control and trigger protection for long arms are simply unreliable and potentially unsafe acts. ** Again, ** SIDEARMS ONLY **, please."

    From last year's event description: "*** Again, for this event, unlike the open carry events at the University of Cincinnati, and The Ohio State University (links below) I request that you bring SIDEARMS ONLY. In the crowd situation that will develop, appropriate muzzle control and trigger protection for long arms are simply unreliable and potentially unsafe acts. ***"

    Both sections of text have been freely available for reading at the TOP OF the Facebook event pages.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    You seem to be a troublemaker. These "in your face" tactics seemed to work for the "lgbt community" , but in this case you will alienate the very people we are trying to reach. Scaring the cr@p out of people with LGs, just because you can, is, IMHO, @ssinine. Get over yourself and do something positive instead of stirring the pot needlessly.
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    We are not in a war zone. We are not in a disaster zone. We are not hunting big game. We are not trying to convey to the general public that we are lunatics. Perception is everything.

    We are trying to convey the image of everyday people carrying sidearms. We want to look approachable. We want to educate. We want people to walk away with a positive feeling.

    Your approach is lets shove it down their throat. That doesn't work with the public.

    So, thank-you for not participating.
    We are in the United States of America, We are in the Commonwealth of Kentucky. We have [a basic form of] constitutional carry, we have court cases defending our rights. We, in the Commonwealth of Kentucky, has every bit as much of a right to LGOC as we do to SGOC. Now, forum rules don't allow LGOC discussions, with a very few exceptions where LGOC is the only legal mode of OC, and I understand that. But simply saying that you are having a gathering at a public event, and will turn away people who do LGOC, is a **** move. Our right to open carry, and to keep and bear arms, does NOT make a distinction between LG or SG open carry. And even then, WHO ARE YOU to say what someone can, or cannot, show up to a public even, with whatever firearm they deem within their purview to carry at a PUBLIC EVENT? My arguement is that you're making prohibitions against something, that you cannot prohibit outside of our own leased, owned, or rented property. What would you do then, if someone showed up with an AK strapped to their back, and a pistol on their side? would you just simply ignore them? would you call the police with a MWAG at a public event just because they refused to listen to your arbitrary rules for who will and will not show up as you demand, to your little greeting at a PUBLIC EVENT? I'm pretty sure Ohio, although being behind our wonderful Commonwealth for the strength of its codified gun-rights, still has the same basic provisions as Kentucky for public OC.

    And you're darned right that shoving something down peoples throats actually works, MSG; It works for the LGBT community, despite millions of republifascists crying about it, we have universal gay marriage in every single state in the US. It took years, decades even, of shoving things down peoples throats, to get what we wanted in the end. And as for caring about what people think and perceive? What, are you apart of the anti-gun lobby now? Now now, don't be bringing scary long guns to our lil meet, because it MIGHT OFFEND people, and scare the children, and make people cry, and call the police, and think there's a militia in town to kill and rape everyone and everything, then there'll be BLOOD IN THE STREETS! All because someone decided to LGOC at a SGOC meet. Goodness! Can you imagine the outcries? I mean, Gods FORBID people exercise EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of their RIGHTS, because doing so MIGHT MAKE SOMEONE SAD!

    No, I have a mind to participate, to attend, LGOC, SGOC, heck might even OC all nine of my pistols. I'd probably even wear my Purple BDU pants, and Purple BDU shirt, and re-dye my hair Pink, and carry a big Rainbow LGBT version of the Confederate flag, to this event, and stop by your lil meet. Why? Because it's my darned right, and I will not let ANYONE, Government, or Citizen, tell me what I can or cannot do, or how and when I can exercise my RIGHTS.

    If you're not with ALL modes of OC, and ALL forms of our rights, then you're against all of our rights, and an enemy to the Gun community.

    If having a "No F&$#s given" attitude, and exercising ALL of my RIGHTS as MY pleasure, with NO REGARD to what ANYTHING or ANYONE thinks, makes me a "troublemaker" then I'll HAPPILY take my place alongside our Founding farthers, and the heros of the many Civil Rights movements.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 08-25-2015 at 11:00 PM. Reason: language unacceptable
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    --snipped for brevity--
    Drake you make too many assumptions and would seem to want to fight over a request, not a demand.

    Picking where, when and how to take a stand IMO simply shows good judgement and an understanding of the process. Not all events need be overly demonstrative, no compromise, full speed ahead.

    You mention the Civil Rights movement of the not so distant past - I lot of people died during those days. We would like to avoid repeating that type of tragedy. Some potential actions can inflame our enemies, make confrontation inevitable - I just don't see that is necessary to make our point.

    You may do as you will, but most will think you hurt the cause and will likely say, "He is not one of us."
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 08-26-2015 at 04:05 AM. Reason: fixed spelling
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    Drake, at certain places at this event, at various times through the day, the crowds are literally elbow to elbow. Even properly slung, sooner or later a long gun is going to bop somebody in the noggin, ribs, etc. It's just not PRACTICAL to carry a three or four foot metal/wood/plastic pipe around in a swarm of folks. Plus, take into consideration that there are stairs, overhead walkways, etc., this isn't just a flat patch of ground. I wouldn't much like peering over a railing to see a rifle muzzle pointed straight at my head, regardless of the fact it's slung, and I'm a pretty savvy, pro gun guy.Can you at least TRY to grasp these considerations for other people? Things like that could start a fight, or even panic.

    We've had to take the same basic concept into consideration when having walks, rallies, etc. that included a dining stop: You know of many restaurants that provide rifle/shotgun racks? Or would you think it's okay to just lay the gun down across the table, regardless of how that orients the muzzle? Or, maybe just sit down without unslinging the firearm? That's going to be somewhere between uncomfortable, to flat out destructive to the chair back. Or both.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    So let me get this straight, Drake argues that it is a required wearing of a three piece suit to the businessman's special afternoon baseball game.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    ** location updated **

    For those who may not be familiar with the Fireworks, I have changed the event location to where one entrance is located, that being at Sawyer Point Park.

    If you look at Google Maps, for instance, use the Earth view and you can see the east entrance, which will be located underneath the squiggly line at the NE end of the park.

    You could also come in the west entrance, located in-between the US Bank Arena and the Ohio River.

    Either way, come down to the walkway **at the top of** what is called the "Serpentine Wall" (the undulating structure on the river, within Yeatman's Cove Park), and walk around until you see a fellow carrier.

    The area near Wheel Fun Rentals, at the east end of Yeatman's Cove Park, is shaded, and it's quite possible that the group will be there.

    Meet-up time is still to be determined, but be aware that the later you come, the further away the parking, and the larger the crowd.
    Last edited by BB62; 08-27-2015 at 06:32 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    I guess someone forgot to post.

    Jeffry Smith
    I'll be at Yeatman's Cove Park at 1:30 or so, entering via the east entrance. Last year people showed up at various times, for various amounts of time, and I expect the same this year. Please show up when you can, walk the length of the walkway, and I'm sure we'll find one another as we did last year.

    Unfortunately, I didn't pay close attention to *when* the crowd starting getting heavy, but when it did there was no point in walking through the throngs of people while OCing, so after some of us crossed into KY, walked around and returned, we parked ourselves in a corner and talked until just prior to the fireworks. This year I'll pay closer attention to timing, so if there's a demand to do this again next year, things will be more defined.

    I'm not sure what time the food booths open, but I'm sure they'll be open early afternoon.

    To help people meet one another: there are four flagpoles in the park, on the walk just above the Serpentine Wall. They have from four to one blue rings around them about halfway up, the one with four rings being at the EAST end of the park. You may want to use the flagpoles as landmarks.

    If you have questions or comments, please post them - otherwise, see you there!

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    ** Meetup Time **

    I'll be at Yeatman's Cove Park at 1:30 or so, entering via the east entrance. Last year people showed up at various times, for various amounts of time, and I expect the same this year. Please show up when you can, walk the length of the walkway, and I'm sure we'll find one another as we did last year.

    Unfortunately, I didn't pay close attention to *when* the crowd starting getting heavy, but when it did there was no point in walking through the throngs of people while OCing, so after some of us crossed into KY, walked around and returned, we parked ourselves in a corner and talked until just prior to the fireworks. This year I'll pay closer attention to timing, so if there's a demand to do this again next year, things will be more defined.

    I'm not sure what time the food booths open, but I'm sure they'll be open early afternoon.

    To help people meet one another: there are four flagpoles in the park, on the walk just above the Serpentine Wall. They have from four to one blue rings around them about halfway up, the one with four rings being at the EAST end of the park. You may want to use the flagpoles as landmarks.

    If you have questions or comments, please post them - otherwise, see you there!

    (thanks to Color of Law for posting this previously)

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    NOTE: a fireworks regular posted says that the crowds will thicken after the Cincinnati Reds game, around 4 PM. The fact that the Reds are in town will affect parking too. Their game starts at 1:10 PM.

    ** The Reds were out of town last year **

    If you're coming from Ohio, or coming from KY and want to park in Ohio, there is a lot west of Sawyer Point Park (which also has its own lot), on Butler Street, and another lot directly across from it. These are the closest lots to the East entrance to the event. There are other lots & garages around the East entrance, just drive around that area a bit.

    If you want to park in KY, there are two links below which will help you, one of which is to the general transportation page on WEBN's website, and the other which is the Northern KY specific link found there.
    Also, be aware that the bridges are closed at various times, for instance the Purple People bridge was closed at 6:00 PM a couple of years ago. Various automotive bridges close at 7:00 PM or so, depending on traffic.

    General Transportation link: http://www.webn.com/…/transportation-street-closings-87540…/

    KY specific link: http://img.ccrd.clearchannel.com/…/2015_riverfest_tank_info…
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 09-06-2015 at 12:57 PM. Reason: Rule #19

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    ** Parking Alert **

    BEWARE: on the Ohio side, it seems like the City of Cincinnati has conspired with parking lot owners to drive people to parking lots. Numerous signs are posted on parking meters, and some on parking signs saying "No Parking after 11 AM Sunday".

    Such signs can be found >> as far north as Eighth Street <<, and possibly further. * It's sickening. *

    ALSO, meters in the area I drove in ** are no longer free on Sunday **.

    In the lots I saw, prices ranged from $10-$30.

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