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Thread: Guy tries gun grab - caught on video

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Guy tries gun grab - caught on video

    http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...322084072.html

    See commentary here http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot...illusions.html

    OK, it's Philly and for some reason **coughPhillyPDcough** not a lot of folks OC there so maybe the opportunities to try and grab an OD'd handgun are a bit less.

    The hints about a good holster* and going full berserker as soon as the SHTF are still good points.

    Yes, we ought to be able to go into any hoagie shop in any neighborhood and get a sammich.

    stay safe.

    * - a "good holster" does not need to be Level XIV (or even Level III) but it ought to a) hold onto your handgun until b) you want your handgun while c) not being able to be yanked out by anybody passing next to you.

    The dig at a certain Israeli brand of plastic holster is not completely warranted. Sure you can break the holster part away from the belt attachment part, but did you ever try to get the handgun out of the holster part?
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Very interstink - almost qualifies.

    Gun not snatched, but taken in a somewhat prolonged floor fight.

    BG then decides to end the confrontation w/o crossing the last line of stupidity.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Not positive but it looked like this was a concealed carry gun snatch, I bet he was "surprised". Plus he was not paying attention at all to the man coming up behind him.

    As I have pointed out before these assaults no matter what the type seem to happen to CC a lot more than OC.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Not positive but it looked like this was a concealed carry gun snatch, I bet he was "surprised". Plus he was not paying attention at all to the man coming up behind him.

    As I have pointed out before these assaults no matter what the type seem to happen to CC a lot more than OC.
    The guy was printing (his shirt had bunched up a bit over the concealed pistol, thus giving it away. A crime-of-opportunity it seems. A good illustration of when a BUG would have come in handy.

  5. #5
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC4me View Post
    The guy was printing (his shirt had bunched up a bit over the concealed pistol, thus giving it away. A crime-of-opportunity it seems. A good illustration of when a BUG would have come in handy.
    True but it was still not open carry, and he may have been more relaxed because he was counting on the element of surprise. Is there any doubt he was surprised?

    Walk around with your head in the clouds, whether OC, or CC and you will be a target. But it would seem that most OCers know not to walk around with their head in the clouds.

    BTW I can spot almost everybody conceal carrying, if I can so can the criminals. Any case the myth goes out the window that CC prevents a gun grab.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  6. #6
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    So, I'm not sure I've ever seen a "concealed carry" holster (typically, IWB) with any retention, even a thumb strap.

    My question would be, do you consider a simple thumb break "enough" retention for an OWB, open carry holster? I can imagine the answer will be "depends" - as in, retention is only one piece of the pie and so the precise level of retention that is utilized may be "enough" in one scenario while not "enough" in another?
    Advocate freedom please

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    I think is such a CQC situation on the floor (!) a quickly opening (one-handed) knife would be just what the doctor ordered. ;-)

    We all DO carry knives, yes?

    [a rhetorical question]
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 08-20-2015 at 04:23 PM.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    So, I'm not sure I've ever seen a "concealed carry" holster (typically, IWB) with any retention, even a thumb strap.

    My question would be, do you consider a simple thumb break "enough" retention for an OWB, open carry holster? I can imagine the answer will be "depends" - as in, retention is only one piece of the pie and so the precise level of retention that is utilized may be "enough" in one scenario while not "enough" in another?
    "Enough" retention for what? Jumping jacks? Going on the teeter-totter with the kids? Trying to fish the gas cap out from under the car where it has once again rolled because that &*&$%#%^ ring on the inside of the filler door is loose? I've done all those things, and a few more, with a thumb-break holster without problems, and had one of those trigger-guard-locking gizmos spit my gun out when I tripped over a curb stop in a parking lot. (Chicks dig scars, right? Even scars on guns?)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC4me View Post
    The guy was printing (his shirt had bunched up a bit over the concealed pistol, thus giving it away. A crime-of-opportunity it seems. A good illustration of when a BUG would have come in handy.
    You can't live in Condition Yellow forever. But there are some things you can do to maintain security while you lower to Defcon 2 in order to get a sammich. Like moving to the corner on the other end of the counter so your handgun is inboard as opposed to being outboard.

    Class starts promptly at 9:30 AM. The coffee service will stop at 9:15 to ensure you are in your seats on time.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    You can't live in Condition Yellow forever. But there are some things you can do to maintain security while you lower to Defcon 2 in order to get a sammich. Like moving to the corner on the other end of the counter so your handgun is inboard as opposed to being outboard.

    Class starts promptly at 9:30 AM. The coffee service will stop at 9:15 to ensure you are in your seats on time.

    stay safe.
    *raises hand*

    At what point does SA become paranoia? I certainly don't want to be seen in public with a gun on my hip and my head on a swivel, that would classify as suspicious. At the same time I don't want to appear to be hiding it like a criminal or *cough* CCer either and that would throw the who "it's supposed to be a deterrent" out the window.

    IMO any place that has bullet proof glass protecting the proprietor deserves condition RED

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    *raises hand*

    At what point does SA become paranoia? I certainly don't want to be seen in public with a gun on my hip and my head on a swivel, that would classify as suspicious. At the same time I don't want to appear to be hiding it like a criminal or *cough* CCer either and that would throw the who "it's supposed to be a deterrent" out the window.

    IMO any place that has bullet proof glass protecting the proprietor deserves condition RED
    Ol' Pharts frequently travel in pairs for a reason beyond the pleasure of company.

    I can't recall the last time I was in condition RED in my bank. Life is a gamble not w/o risk(s)
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Ol' Pharts frequently travel in pairs for a reason beyond the pleasure of company.

    I can't recall the last time I was in condition RED in my bank. Life is a gamble not w/o risk(s)
    My bank doesn't have it :neener:

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    *raises hand*

    At what point does SA become paranoia? I certainly don't want to be seen in public with a gun on my hip and my head on a swivel, that would classify as suspicious. At the same time I don't want to appear to be hiding it like a criminal or *cough* CCer either and that would throw the who "it's supposed to be a deterrent" out the window.

    IMO any place that has bullet proof glass protecting the proprietor deserves condition RED
    If you have situational awareness there is no need for paranoia.

    There's no need to be paranoid, they really are coming - and probably catching up.

    Situational awareness does not require your entire head to be swiveling. Until you reach a certain age you have ears, and even after a certain age your eyes can use reflective surfaces to advantage. (Tonight I asked my waitress to come over and let me look into her eyeglasses - because there was a guy just outside walking back and forth and I did not want to turn around and look out the window. She laughed and did a really wonderful monologue while bending waaaay over so I could look at her eyeglasses which in fact were "up there". Turns out it was an employee on break using his cell phone.) (I first noticed him because he was breaking the light coming from the drug store across the street. See? Situational awareness without being a swivel-head.)

    (Why kids these days cannot stand in one place and talk at their phone continues to baffle me. They are not hip-hop celebrities stalking back and forth across the stage, but they sure seem to want to look like one.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  14. #14
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    There was plenty the victim could have done without swiveling his head. It appeared outside the employee, the perp, and him were the only ones in the business. How difficult or time consuming would it have been to observe, and make an assessment. Maybe saying hello, and making eye contact, see how he reacted. I usually notice when someone is watching me, most times it is innocent, but some bells should be going off.

    My wife, and I had this happen shopping a couple days ago. 2 young boys kept staring at us, and peeking around the corner, until their mother snatched them. Eventually the mother approached my wife to tell her how her kids thought we, and our guns were kewl. But I have noticed other times being watched where I kept my distance, something just felt off, maybe I was wrong, maybe not, but why get too comfortable.

    I think in this case the victim truly believed his gun was not seen, and it made him too comfortable.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  15. #15
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    There was plenty the victim could have done without swiveling his head. It appeared outside the employee, the perp, and him were the only ones in the business. How difficult or time consuming would it have been to observe, and make an assessment. Maybe saying hello, and making eye contact, see how he reacted. I usually notice when someone is watching me, most times it is innocent, but some bells should be going off.

    My wife, and I had this happen shopping a couple days ago. 2 young boys kept staring at us, and peeking around the corner, until their mother snatched them. Eventually the mother approached my wife to tell her how her kids thought we, and our guns were kewl. But I have noticed other times being watched where I kept my distance, something just felt off, maybe I was wrong, maybe not, but why get too comfortable.

    I think in this case the victim truly believed his gun was not seen, and it made him too comfortable.
    Mentally parked in the white zone - never a good idea.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Don't doors have bells? Or at least scrape the concrete just outside?


    Turn to your left so your gun hip is against the counter, take a step backwards, say hello, and make room for him to order/count his money. The guy making your sandwich can hand it to you over the tall thing.
    I carry everywhere because crime doesn't make appointments.

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    I guess that concealed carrier lost "the element of surprise".
    Hoka hey

  18. #18
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FallonJeeper View Post
    I guess that concealed carrier lost "the element of surprise".
    Nope, he was very surprised...
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    I think is such a CQC situation on the floor (!) a quickly opening (one-handed) knife would be just what the doctor ordered. ;-)

    We all DO carry knives, yes?

    [a rhetorical question]
    I bought about a year ago and now always carry a Benchmade knife that is easy to open with one hand just for that reason.

    I do believe he would have been bleeding copiously at a minimum. Quite likely could be trying to stuff his guts back inside.

    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

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  20. #20
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Probably just another shill with a conceal carry permit who thinks he's invincible with the magical power of a [not so hidden] weapon - the type of passive aggressive personality perfect for concealment only because he's scared of "becoming a target" (all the while concealing what appears to be a medium to full sized pistol under a measly t-shirt). I have no sympathy for the guy. He's an idiot, and if this crap happened to me I would expect you all to call me an idiot as well (although I would never be concealing).

    My $.02 -----

    I can't tell you how many times I've had to rubber neck or pretend to look at something else just to confirm the presence of another. Honestly, unlike some here, I have no problem with people seeing me look around. If I'm open carrying, that's kinda what I'm there for. I'm not going to get too caught up in trying to slink in and out of the convenience store as stealthily as possible. I'm going to go in, make eye contact with just about everyone there and usually politely smile and say hello, and continue to survey the surroundings the entire time I'm in line. Everyone that comes in the door gets a glance from me, probably a quick glance to the eyes followed by a quick glance to the waist band as my eyes move back to the forward position. I keep my elbow usually tight to the butt of my pistol and turn my strong side away from people, even if it looks somewhat awkward. If someone gets uncomfortably close to me I make it a point to turn towards them and greet them politely, just to let them know that they are in my no-go space. When I'm paying, I usually turn my strong side towards the counter, and I always have my wallet in my left pocket. I always make sure my right hand is free, which has actually helped with trying things ambidextrously.

    It's easy to "have one's head on a swivel" and not look like a total creep. Just learn to be a little more outgoing and have assuring eyes and you shouldn't have any issues.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  21. #21
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Probably just another shill with a conceal carry permit who thinks he's invincible with the magical power of a [not so hidden] weapon - the type of passive aggressive personality perfect for concealment only because he's scared of "becoming a target" (all the while concealing what appears to be a medium to full sized pistol under a measly t-shirt). I have no sympathy for the guy. He's an idiot, and if this crap happened to me I would expect you all to call me an idiot as well (although I would never be concealing).

    My $.02 -----

    I can't tell you how many times I've had to rubber neck or pretend to look at something else just to confirm the presence of another. Honestly, unlike some here, I have no problem with people seeing me look around. If I'm open carrying, that's kinda what I'm there for. I'm not going to get too caught up in trying to slink in and out of the convenience store as stealthily as possible. I'm going to go in, make eye contact with just about everyone there and usually politely smile and say hello, and continue to survey the surroundings the entire time I'm in line. Everyone that comes in the door gets a glance from me, probably a quick glance to the eyes followed by a quick glance to the waist band as my eyes move back to the forward position. I keep my elbow usually tight to the butt of my pistol and turn my strong side away from people, even if it looks somewhat awkward. If someone gets uncomfortably close to me I make it a point to turn towards them and greet them politely, just to let them know that they are in my no-go space. When I'm paying, I usually turn my strong side towards the counter, and I always have my wallet in my left pocket. I always make sure my right hand is free, which has actually helped with trying things ambidextrously.

    It's easy to "have one's head on a swivel" and not look like a total creep. Just learn to be a little more outgoing and have assuring eyes and you shouldn't have any issues.
    don't hold back mate...tell us how you actually feel...

    and by the way, we already do (of course, with only the utmost love and passion in our hearts when we do!! )

    the truth, i were to see you engage in your SA routine, i might consider pulling and finding cover as your description sounds as if you are casing the joint geez, lighten up a bit!!

    ipse
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  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    ...* - a "good holster" does not need to be Level XIV (or even Level III) but it ought to...
    I'll tell you what, any man who carries a Level 14 holster is waaaaaaaay more of a man than I'll ever be! Kinda like those guys who carry a 40mm...


  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Mentally parked in the white zone - never a good idea.
    Agreed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ2EPeq1TK0

  24. #24
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    don't hold back mate...tell us how you actually feel...

    and by the way, we already do (of course, with only the utmost love and passion in our hearts when we do!! )

    the truth, i were to see you engage in your SA routine, i might consider pulling and finding cover as your description sounds as if you are casing the joint geez, lighten up a bit!!

    ipse
    I keep it subtle
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  25. #25
    Regular Member razor_baghdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    I keep it subtle
    I agree.

    I maintain a subtle "bubble", while concealing and while OC. Cross that bubble and I take steps to move myself away from the edge of that bubble.

    SA is something as simple as grabbing an item off of a rack nearby and checking the price, also while turning my strong side away from the intended/unintended breach of that bubble, all while smiling but still retaining SA for what's around you.

    It's also awesome having a wife that understands the implications of a suspect person / totally innocent person getting too close. She reads my mind and knows exactly why I'm moving around her / bumping her, picking up an item that I have no interest in - nor that we need.

    Call it "yellow" or "orange" or "red" or whatever color / level you want to call it. That guy would have been "checked" as soon as he entered the store.

    Stay safe and SA folks.
    Last edited by razor_baghdad; 09-01-2015 at 09:52 PM.

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