Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 40

Thread: OC in Denver

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    32

    OC in Denver

    Moderator note - created this thread from off topic posts in the following thread:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...SJ-Filed/page3

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveInCO View Post
    He's presented no cite whatsoever (that a CHP, under state law, allows you to ignore OC bans) and refused to do so when challenged.

    It's not that Denver is ignoring that law. It's that there is no such law. Leastwise not until someone produces a cite.

    Now Denver is wrong to do what it is doing, but that's because they are violating the state constitution, not because of this non-existent law. The supremes allowed to stand a ruling that Denver wasn't violating the constitution, but that's a different question than whether a local OC ban is overriden by a CHP. I've still seen no evidence (other than someone's unsubstantiated opinion) that that is the case.
    I wanted evidence as well, it took some digging but found it!


    So here is the statute banning CC:
    Sec. 38-117. – Dangerous or deadly weapons—Prohibitions.

    (a)

    It shall be unlawful for any person, except a law enforcement officer in the performance of duty, to wear under their clothes, or concealed about their person any dangerous or deadly weapon, including, but not by way of limitation, any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, air gun, gas operated gun, spring gun, sling shot, blackjack, nunchaku, brass knuckles or artificial knuckles of any substance whatsoever, or any switchblade knife, gravity knife, or any knife having a blade greater than three and one-half (3) inches in length, or any explosive device, incendiary device or bomb, or other dangerous or deadly weapon.
    and here is the the statute banning OC:


    (b)

    It shall be unlawful for any person, except a law enforcement officer in the performance of duty, to carry, use or wear any dangerous or deadly weapon, including, but not by way of limitation, any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, air gun, gas operated gun, spring gun, sling shot, blackjack, nunchaku, brass knuckles or artificial knuckles of any substance whatsoever, or switchblade knife, gravity knife, or any knife having a blade greater than three and one-half (3) inches in length, or any explosive device, incendiary device or bomb, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon.
    and here is the exemption:

    (f)

    It shall not be an offense under 38-117(a) or 38-117(b) if:

    (1)

    The person, at the time of carrying the concealed weapon, holds a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, C.R.S., prior to its repeal, or, if the weapon involved was a handgun, holds a valid permit or a temporary emergency permit to carry a concealed handgun issued pursuant to state law and is otherwise carrying the handgun in conformance with any applicable state or local law; or

    (2)

    The person is carrying the weapon concealed within a private automobile or other private means of conveyance, for hunting or for lawful protection of such person’s or another person’s person or property, while travelling, and the weapon is not an explosive device, incendiary device, or a bomb. If the weapon is a firearm being transported for hunting, it shall be unloaded while being carried within the private automobile or other private means of conveyance.
    From the 10th district court as well(page 18)!

    We proceed to analyze Peterson’s Second Amendment claim under this two-step
    approach. Our task is complicated, however, by the somewhat unusual posture of
    Peterson’s claim. Peterson argues that strict scrutiny is appropriate because he is
    “completely disarmed” while in Denver. That alleged complete disarmament results
    from the confluence of two enactments: the state statute that requires CHL applicants to
    be legal residents of Colorado, Colo. Rev. Stat. 18-12-203, and the Denver ordinance
    that requires a CHL for most forms of open carry, Denver Rev. Mun. Code 38-117(a),
    (b), & (f).
    So let it be settled OC of handguns is legal in Denver with a Valid CHP permit!
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 08-22-2015 at 12:46 AM. Reason: stated reason for separate thread

  2. #2
    Regular Member Anubis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Arapahoe County CO, ,
    Posts
    451
    Thanks, JG_Buffalo. That's enlightening. I thought OC was illegal in Denver, period.

    Now attorneys will probably argue over the meaning "permit issued pursuant to state law" in the Denver statute. It could mean any state law or only Colorado state law.
    Last edited by Anubis; 08-13-2015 at 08:19 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Eastern Panhandle,WV ,
    Posts
    408
    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Thanks, JG_Buffalo. That's enlightening. I thought OC was illegal in Denver, period.

    Now attorneys will probably argue over the meaning "permit issued pursuant to state law" in the Denver statute. It could mean any state law or only Colorado state law.
    Im a little disappointed there hasn't been a non resident OC lawsuit against Denver, or several Oregon towns that ban OC, or SC. Any reason why? I'd have to believe these state courts might be receptive to such challenges. The Federal courts are such a lost cause at this point and we need conflicts to reach SCOTUS, not Federal court losses all trying to follow each other instead of Heller.
    Last edited by press1280; 08-15-2015 at 03:58 PM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Larimer County, CO
    Posts
    212
    Quote Originally Posted by JG_Buffalo View Post

    So let it be settled OC of handguns is legal in Denver with a Valid CHP permit!
    Sarcasm?

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    Sarcasm?
    I got my info from the horses mouth.

    If you get stopped for OC'ing, with a valid CHP, in Denver then just have the statute on hand which I cited. Now the cop can be ignorant of the law but you'll still be in the right according the 10th district court. So any appeal from the Denver DA would have to reverse the 10th's decision. You can ask a lawyer to read the decision for you, but it seems pretty cut and dry to me.

    It's not the constitutional carry that we wanted but it's better than nothing.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Larimer County, CO
    Posts
    212
    Quote Originally Posted by JG_Buffalo View Post
    I got my info from the horses mouth.

    If you get stopped for OC'ing, with a valid CHP, in Denver then just have the statute on hand which I cited. Now the cop can be ignorant of the law but you'll still be in the right according the 10th district court. So any appeal from the Denver DA would have to reverse the 10th's decision. You can ask a lawyer to read the decision for you, but it seems pretty cut and dry to me.

    It's not the constitutional carry that we wanted but it's better than nothing.
    But it hasn't been tested yet. Are you volunteering?

    If you do a Google search it is pretty much unanimous that Denver has an outright OC ban that is enforceable.

    I hope everyone else is wrong. Maybe the OP can comment on this. In the meantime, I would advise caution unless you have a good lawyer.
    Last edited by Dario; 08-17-2015 at 04:37 PM.
    * The facts referred to in this post are not intended to advocate breaking any local, state or federal laws. It is incumbent on the reader to determine the consequences of any illegal activities.

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,616
    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    But it hasn't been tested yet. Are you volunteering?

    If you do a Google search it is pretty much unanimous that Denver has an outright OC ban that is enforceable.

    I hope everyone else is wrong. Maybe the OP can comment on this. In the meantime, I would advise caution unless you have a good lawyer.
    And a huge stack of greenbacks looking to be spent.

    Would be better IMHO to have a major gun rights group tackle this problem, than an individual bent on righting a wrong but risking his hide.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  8. #8
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Lakewood, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    703
    Shortened for brevity.
    Quote Originally Posted by JG_Buffalo View Post
    I wanted evidence as well, it took some digging but found it!

    f)
    It shall not be an offense under 38-117(a) or 38-117(b) if:
    (1)
    The person, at the time of carrying the concealed weapon, holds a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, C.R.S., prior to its repeal, or, if the weapon involved was a handgun, holds a valid permit or a temporary emergency permit to carry a concealed handgun issued pursuant to state law and is otherwise carrying the handgun in conformance with any applicable state or local law; or
    (2)
    The person is carrying the weapon concealed within a private automobile or other private means of conveyance, for hunting or for lawful protection of such person’s or another person’s person or property, while travelling, and the weapon is not an explosive device, incendiary device, or a bomb. If the weapon is a firearm being transported for hunting, it shall be unloaded while being carried within the private automobile or other private means of conveyance.
    There is nothing in your stated answer- exception that covers a CCW being an answer to the OPEN carry ban. Your answer still covers only "concealed."
    Last edited by JamesB; 08-19-2015 at 08:38 AM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    Shortened for brevity.


    There is nothing in your stated answer- exception that covers a CCW being an answer to the OPEN carry ban. Your answer still covers only "concealed."
    Reread the bold text in my OP

    This is the statute text that bans OC

    (b)

    It shall be unlawful for any person, except a law enforcement officer in the performance of duty, to carry, use or wear any dangerous or deadly weapon, including, but not by way of limitation, any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, air gun, gas operated gun, spring gun, sling shot, blackjack, nunchaku, brass knuckles or artificial knuckles of any substance whatsoever, or switchblade knife, gravity knife, or any knife having a blade greater than three and one-half (3) inches in length, or any explosive device, incendiary device or bomb, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon.
    This is the text that creates an exemption to the OC ban. If the CHL only allows CC, then the exemption text would only apply to section (a).

    f)

    It shall not be an offense under 38-117(a) or 38-117(b) if:
    or, if the weapon involved was a handgun, holds a valid permit or a temporary emergency permit to carry a concealed handgun issued pursuant to state law and is otherwise carrying the handgun in conformance with any applicable state or local law;
    The 10th district court, the highest court that has heard this case, explicitly stated that OC is legal with a valid state CHL. So it doesn't even matter what the law says, it matters what the judge says the law says. "most forms" applies to "pistols and revolvers".

    the Denver ordinance
    that requires a CHL for most forms of open carry, Denver Rev. Mun. Code 38-117(a),
    (b), & (f).

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Larimer County, CO
    Posts
    212
    Quote Originally Posted by JG_Buffalo View Post
    Reread the bold text in my OP

    This is the statute text that bans OC

    This is the text that creates an exemption to the OC ban. If the CHL only allows CC, then the exemption text would only apply to section (a).

    The 10th district court, the highest court that has heard this case, explicitly stated that OC is legal with a valid state CHL. So it doesn't even matter what the law says, it matters what the judge says the law says. "most forms" applies to "pistols and revolvers".
    Again, are you volunteering to test this theory? If not, are you a lawyer willing to take this case pro bono if I volunteer?

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    Again, are you volunteering to test this theory? If not, are you a lawyer willing to take this case pro bono if I volunteer?
    I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not going to Denver anytime soon. Next time I'm passing through though, and I have some time to get detained by DPD, I'll OC and carry a copy of the judges ruling and the Denver statue.

    I'm not trying to entrap anyone. If you have a CHL, then you likely carry concealed and it's not an issue for you.

    I have yet to OC in public, so going to Denver where I know I'm going to get a police response versus a smaller town where it might be seen as okay, would not be my first choice.

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,616
    Quote Originally Posted by JG_Buffalo View Post
    --snipped--

    The 10th district court, the highest court that has heard this case, explicitly stated that OC is legal with a valid state CHL. So it doesn't even matter what the law says, it matters what the judge says the law says. "most forms" applies to "pistols and revolvers".
    I think you are ill informed.

    The 10th District Court is located in Pueblo, is of the lowest level court in the judicial system, and its decisions do not create case law = not binding on other courts.

    The Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court decisions do create case law and are therefore legal directives to the lower courts i.e. District Courts.

    This was widely reported and nothing has changed.

    "The open carry law makes it unlawful to walk around visibly wearing a firearm in public. Certain individuals, with a concealed carry permit, are allowed to carry concealed weapons - but they are an exception.
    http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3901503
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,616
    Quote Originally Posted by JG_Buffalo View Post
    I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not going to Denver anytime soon. Next time I'm passing through though, and I have some time to get detained by DPD, I'll OC and carry a copy of the judges ruling and the Denver statue.

    I'm not trying to entrap anyone. If you have a CHL, then you likely carry concealed and it's not an issue for you.

    I have yet to OC in public, so going to Denver where I know I'm going to get a police response versus a smaller town where it might be seen as okay, would not be my first choice.
    Your youthful inexperience and lack of knowledge is showing - not trying to be insulting. It is probable that you have no dealings with the court system on this subject and you are likely making judgements on what you as an untrained layman think or would like to believe. That's a recipe for disaster. An arrest would cost thousands to defend and likely end with a conviction/record that would impact your future.

    ************************************************** ************
    Some of the things I look for on this forum are adherence to Forum Rules, spammers, trolls, providing cites accurately and off topic posts.

    You actually have violated forum rule #18:
    "WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

    Think you would be well advised to spend more time listening, learning, and get some training under your belt so that you can speak from a solid knowledge/experience base + learn to research the subject before 'going public' with such off the wall declarations.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  14. #14
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Lakewood, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    703
    So, the way I remember the original argument was:
    that no one could OC in Denver
    and only those who had a permit could carry concealed.
    Only a Colorado resident was eligible to be granted a permit.
    Therefore a non resident of Colorado was effectively prohibited from carrying at all in Denver.

    There is nothing in there saying that having a permit to carry concealed was an exemption for OC.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    So, the way I remember the original argument was:
    that no one could OC in Denver
    and only those who had a permit could carry concealed.
    Only a Colorado resident was eligible to be granted a permit.
    Therefore a non resident of Colorado was effectively prohibited from carrying at all in Denver.

    There is nothing in there saying that having a permit to carry concealed was an exemption for OC.
    Well the court said that:
    the Denver ordinance
    that requires a CHL for most forms of open carry, Denver Rev. Mun. Code 38-117(a),
    (b), & (f).
    Can someone else sit down and actually read what the law and court says like [B]I did?

    Am I getting tripped up on the "or"? of 38-117(a),
    (b), & (f)?

    Because my reading says,

    You cannot be charged for either open or conceal carry when you have a conceal carry permit

    because:
    It shall not be an offense under...38-117(b) (which says:"It shall be unlawful for any person, except a law enforcement officer in the performance of duty, to carry, use or wear any dangerous or deadly weapon, including, but not by way of limitation, any pistol, revolver)... if the weapon involved was a handgun, holds a valid permit or a temporary emergency permit to carry a concealed handgun issued pursuant to state law and is otherwise carrying the handgun in conformance with any applicable state or local law"
    IF they only meant for police officers to be able to OC and civvies to CC then they would ONLY have to provide an exemption to 38-117(a) and not 38-117(b).

    If you will provide an explanation as to why the charge under 38-117(B) was specifically exempted by having a concealed handgun permit, then please illuminate me.

    Can SAF or the NRA put a lawyer on this to clarify?
    What's the best way to contact either the SAF, NRA, or even DPD and find out?

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Larimer County, CO
    Posts
    212
    Quote Originally Posted by JG_Buffalo View Post
    If you will provide an explanation as to why the charge under 38-117(B) was specifically exempted by having a concealed handgun permit, then please illuminate me.
    I think you already know the answer:
    ...and is otherwise carrying the handgun in conformance with any applicable state or local law
    Re-read the Meyer decision. It specifically names Denver and only Denver as being exempt regarding OC.

  17. #17
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,880
    quote:
    DISTRICT COURT
    CITY AND COUNTY OF DENVER, COLORADO

    In the 2003 legislative session, the General Assembly passed Senate Bills 24 and 25.
    Both bills were signed into law by Governor Owens on March 18, 2003. The bills contained sweeping legislative declarations that identify control of firearms as a state interest and seek to
    preempt conflicting local laws. Senate Bill 24 addresses primarily a uniform system for issuing permits for carrying concealed handguns, while Senate Bill 25 addresses other aspects of
    firearms regulation.

    The City and County of Denver is a home rule city created and organized under Article XX, Section 6 of the Colorado Constitution (the "home rule amendment"). Under the home
    rule amendment, a home rule municipality has the supreme power to legislate in matters of local concern. Historically, Denver has had a range of ordinances controlling various aspects
    of the possession, use and sale of firearms in the city.

    snip...

    OPEN CARRYING OF FIREARMS

    snip...

    Unlike the legislation for concealed carry, Senate Bill 25 fails to set forth a comprehensive regulatory scheme that serves as uniform authority for open carry of firearms.
    Also, unlike transportation of concealed weapons in automobiles, it should be relatively simple for a gun owner to recall that he or she may not carry a sidearm openly in downtown
    Denver as is possible in rural Colorado. History is also on the side of the local ordinance.
    Since 1973, Denver has regulated the open carrying of firearms in public. The State has been silent on the topic until Senate Bill 25. The Colorado Constitution, while protecting the right to
    bear arms, does not specifically commit regulation of open carrying of firearms to either state or local government.

    Based on the totality of the circumstances, I conclude that the State's interest in allowing the general open carry of firearms is insubstantial and is far outweighed by Denver's local interest in regulating firearms more strictly in an urbanized area.

    snip...

    For the reasons stated above, I find the State has failed to demonstrate a significant interest in requiring every city and town to allow open carry of firearms. Thus, I conclude that the City has proved, beyond a reasonable doubt, that C.R.S. 29-11.7-103, insofar as the state relies on it to preempt the ordinances at issue here, is an unconstitutional infringement on the home rule powers of the City and County of Denver as guaranteed by Article XX, 6 of the Colorado Constitution .

    snip...

    The State is and shall be permanently enjoined from enforcing against the City the preemptive language of the statutes adopted or amended by SB 03-24 and SB 03-25, or from otherwise interfering with Denver's enforcement of the City ordinances and regulations set forth above in paragraphs 2, 3, 4, 6, 7A and 8A through 81 on the basis of these statutes.

    10. Any and all claims related to DRMC 38-125 shall be dismissed due to the fact that this ordinance was repealed after the institution of this action by the City.
    SO ORDERED.
    Dated this 5th day of November, 2004.
    BY THE COURT:
    Joseph E. Meyer III
    District Court Judge

    http://www.davekopel.com/2A/Lawsuits...rt-opinion.pdf

    JG, PLEASE in the future, when you feel the need and wish to promote significant mis-information to the citizens of CO, Denver and Denver County, based on your obviously limited experience and your apparent failure to accomplish appropriate research both here (as this has been discussed in-depth previously on this subthread) or on al gore's invention...

    DON"T!!

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 08-25-2015 at 08:47 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,616
    Originally Posted by JG_Buffalo
    If you will provide an explanation as to why the charge under 38-117(B) was specifically exempted by having a concealed handgun permit, then please illuminate me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    I think you already know the answer:
    ...and is otherwise carrying the handgun in conformance with any applicable state or local law
    Re-read the Meyer decision. It specifically names Denver and only Denver as being exempt regarding OC.
    This has been asked an answered most completely, Mr. Buffalo. If someone cannot understand the plain, direct English contained therein, then I suggest they contact a competent gun rights attorney and not muddy up this forum by repeating the same questions over and over.

    Plain and simple - OC is illegal in Denver. Period. Exclamation point!
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 08-25-2015 at 10:22 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    I think you already know the answer:


    Re-read the Meyer decision. It specifically names Denver and only Denver as being exempt regarding OC.


    I think you are ill informed.

    The 10th District Court is located in Pueblo, is of the lowest level court in the judicial system, and its decisions do not create case law = not binding on other courts.

    The Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court decisions do create case law and are therefore legal directives to the lower courts i.e. District Courts.

    This was widely reported and nothing has changed.

    "The open carry law makes it unlawful to walk around visibly wearing a firearm in public. Certain individuals, with a concealed carry permit, are allowed to carry concealed weapons - but they are an exception.
    http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3901503
    As far as I can read Meyer was about OC w/o a permit in conformance with state law.

    I am quoting the LOCAL LAW, Denver municipal code Sec. 38-117. It has nothing to do in state law. And I'm not "making judgements on what [I]...would like to believe" I'm trying to figure out what a court ruling means

    Your youthful inexperience and lack of knowledge is showing - not trying to be insulting. It is probable that you have no dealings with the court system on this subject and you are likely making judgements on what you as an untrained layman think or would like to believe. That's a recipe for disaster. An arrest would cost thousands to defend and likely end with a conviction/record that would impact your future.
    Well it seems like if you read the code, you would know that the fine for the first offense is $500, although court costs of challenging it and potentially losing would be much greater, I give you that.

    This has been asked an answered most completely, Mr. Buffalo. If someone cannot understand the plain, direct English contained therein, then I suggest they contact a competent gun rights attorney and not muddy up this forum by repeating the same questions over and over.

    Plain and simple - OC is illegal in Denver. Period. Exclamation point!
    Again, if Meyer HELD UP Denver local law then the Denver law which grants an exemption to OC is the exemption to OC, not Meyer. The Meyer decision only cites that Sec 38-117 bans OC. Well Sec 38-117(f) provides an exemption provided one has a concealed handgun permit. The judge mentions multiple times that Denver doesn't ban OC , it "regulates it".

    I am just a layman, but I am not making stuff up and not trying to read to much into things. My belief is based on the written interpretation of the law from a judge. I think the only way to really determine this is to ask a lawyer to investigate OC with a permit in Denver, call the DPD, call the Denver DA, and call some 2nd amendment friednly org to fund your court costs if they want to back you up on your test run.

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,616
    Quote Originally Posted by JG_Buffalo View Post
    --snipped--.

    I am just a layman, but I am not making stuff up and not trying to read to much into things. My belief is based on the written interpretation of the law from a judge. I think the only way to really determine this is to ask a lawyer to investigate OC with a permit in Denver, call the DPD, call the Denver DA, and call some 2nd amendment friednly org to fund your court costs if they want to back you up on your test run.
    You need to ask a gun friendly lawyer, as you are one of an infinitesimally small group that doesn't get it.

    We have done our best to explain the reality and facts. That you can't (or wont?) accept the validity of the responses is unfortunate.

    For the 2nd time, I suggest you cease/desist continuing down this path of repetition on this forum.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Larimer County, CO
    Posts
    212
    JG_Buffalo

    When multi-quoting please attribute the quotes correctly as I'm not the only one replying in this thread.

    Thanks,

    Dario

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    JG_Buffalo

    When multi-quoting please attribute the quotes correctly as I'm not the only one replying in this thread.

    Thanks,

    Dario
    Sorry, I was trying to manage 3 different peoples responses.

    Ultimately I think we are talking about different things. I will contact a lawyer, and the Denver Attorney and see what responses I get.

    I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time.

  23. #23
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,880
    Quote Originally Posted by JG_Buffalo View Post
    Sorry, I was trying to manage 3 different peoples responses.

    Ultimately I think we are talking about different things. I will contact a lawyer, and the Denver Attorney and see what responses I get.

    I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time.
    JG, tis never a waste of time per se when ppl remain open minded & can learn something new...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  24. #24
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3

    I think JG has a point

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    This has been asked an answered most completely, Mr. Buffalo. If someone cannot understand the plain, direct English contained therein, then I suggest they contact a competent gun rights attorney and not muddy up this forum by repeating the same questions over and over.

    Plain and simple - OC is illegal in Denver. Period. Exclamation point!
    JG isn't advocating that anyone attempt to do anything illegal so I don't believe he's violating any forum rules. I think we are just looking to clarify the law, because I agree by the reading of Denver municipal code 38-117 I could see how the interpretation would allow for CHL holders to OC.

    Before dismissing this interpretation, can anyone cite the Denver Municipal Code that specifically bans open carry?

    We understand Meyer failed to PREEMPT Denver's ban/regulation of on open carry. So with that being said, what is Denvers law on open carry? If Open Carry is illegal in Denver plain and simple Mr. Grapeshot can anyone cite the Denver statute/code that explicitly bans open carry?

  25. #25
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3

    JG meant the U.S. 10th Circuit Court of Appeals not the 10th distirct

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I think you are ill informed.

    The 10th District Court is located in Pueblo, is of the lowest level court in the judicial system, and its decisions do not create case law = not binding on other courts.

    The Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court decisions do create case law and are therefore legal directives to the lower courts i.e. District Courts.

    This was widely reported and nothing has changed.

    "The open carry law makes it unlawful to walk around visibly wearing a firearm in public. Certain individuals, with a concealed carry permit, are allowed to carry concealed weapons - but they are an exception.
    http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3901503

    The case JG is quoting is Peterson v Martinez ruled by the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals 10th Circuit.

    And that court ruling does clearly cite that the Denver statute requires a CHL for most forms of open carry. Page 18 if you'd like to read it yourself.

    http://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/opinions/11/11-1149.pdf

    I think JG is on to something here... Unless grapeshot or anyone else can cite the Denver statute that prohibits open carry with/without a CHL....

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •