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Asked to leave a restaurant because of a gun

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
Well the owner has replied to the incident with the same lack of knowledge the staff had. He still thinks his entire "restuarant" is off limits to firearms by RCW. Sad. I think he should clear it with his attorney.

He did mention that anyone with a weapon will have an MWAG call.
 

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
Well the owner has replied to the incident with the same lack of knowledge the staff had. He still thinks his entire "restuarant" is off limits to firearms by RCW. Sad. I think he should clear it with his attorney.

If his entire restaurant is off limits to firearms for the reason he gave, then it's also off limits to anyone under 21. Is there a non-bar seating area? Do people under 21 eat there? Or is there a sectioned-off bar with the under-21 signage on that section only?
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
If his entire restaurant is off limits to firearms for the reason he gave, then it's also off limits to anyone under 21. This is Truth!

Is there a non-bar seating area? Yes

Do people under 21 eat there? Yes

Or is there a sectioned-off bar with the under-21 signage on that section only? Yes

I stood outside the bar area and got a waitstaffs attention. Told her upfront that I could not enter that area because I was legally armed and open carrying. No worries at that time.
 
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Liberty-or-Death

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
411
Location
23235
I posted this question to their FB page:

Is it true your establishment does not respect the right of it's patrons to provide for their own self defense? And is it also true you would rather such abiding citizens to leave than to pay to quietly enjoy your service and hospitality?

This is their reply:

David, I have no issue with people that feel the need to provide self defense for themselves or their famliy, but as a business owner I am stuck in the middle of the 2nd ammedment and people that don't see that issue. I see no reason for anyone to be fearful of their saftey or need for self defense in our establishment. I am a member of the 2nd ammedment organization also a former Military Police Officer. I truly respect the fact that ALL american citizens are given the right to carry a weapon. BUT, as a business owner I must respect the rights of my patrons regarding being itimidated by a person carrying a weapon openly in an establishment that serves alcohol and underage persons. We did not say that a person that may be carrying a pistol in open carry must leave, what we asked is that would that person please secure your weapon in your vehicle. Our parking lot is pretty secure, and we do have cameras over looking the parking lot. We have windows and a large beer garden where if the person was riding a motorcycle and eating in the beer garden, and parked in back near the beer garden, they could see their vehicle from where they were sitting. ONLY IF the person were to refuse to secure their weapon in their vehicle would we ask the person to leave. It matters not if the person is a law abiding citizen or not, it still has a tendancy to INTIMIDATE other patrons. If a person were to enter my establishment with a weapon concealed , and it was not apparent that they were carrying, I would not have made a big deal out of this issue. But they did not, and were asked politley to secure the weapon on their bike. They refused and made the desicion to leave without paying, they were not kicked out, and did infact at that time brake the law. We have had MANY patrons ask us if we were going to allow "gun toting" individuals in our establishment, "if that is so we will not be returning". So I ask you David, WHAT DO I DO? Allow a few, by few I mean one over the last 4 years, carry openly in my business where alcohol is served AND minors,or loose MANY patrons due to one case. I am TOTALLY in favor of open carry, but I would certainly respect the business owner and not carry openly into a business of any kind. I do have a permit and carry concealed, but I DO NOT FLAUNT IT, as they did. No one knows that I am carrying a weapon but ME not even my staff, and I am, as a business owner allowed to by law. Yes, it is in the Washington state RCW that it is allowed to carry in a bar/resturant, but it is "OUR HOUSE OUR RULES" per Washington State Liquor Control Board. If someone enters our establishment and is openly carrying a weapon they will, #1 ask them to secure the weapon in their vehicle, if the person refuses they will not be allowed to enter. OUR HOUSE OUR RULES. End of disscussion. Thank you for asking, I mean no disrespect, sincerly Bruce Brown
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
So, Bruce is a hypocritical idiot and illiterate.

He waited until they were served before asking them to leave and then they stopped the law (brake). Then says that it is his policy to ban OC per WSLB rules...

He is too stupid and intellectually dishonest to own a gun, IMHO. No, I would never disarm him or deprive him of his rights, but I would publicly decry his lack of intellectual integrity.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

http://www.liq.wa.gov/enforcement/required-signs

Parse away...I'll go first.

I truly respect the fact that ALL American citizens are given the right to carry a weapon.
Given?

It matters not if the person is a law abiding citizen or not, it still has a tendency to INTIMIDATE other patrons.
Logic fail...no?

If a person were to enter my establishment with a weapon concealed , and it was not apparent that they were carrying, I would not have made a big deal out of this issue.
A trend reveals itself.

I do have a permit and carry concealed, but I DO NOT FLAUNT IT, as they did.
Don't flaunt carrying concealed?...oh kay.:rolleyes:
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
The guy is a doofus. Another example that our worse enemies for liberties and gun rights are other "gun rights" guys.The only thing he got right was his house his rules. Pretending it was for "others" and for the "law" is really dumb.
 

Jeff Hayes

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
2,569
Location
Long gone
Now can we get 100, 200 or 500 letters sent to Mr. Brown or are we just going to kick back and let other business owners see what happened and do the same thing?

I can get several letters from friends and family out in the next few days or so can you?
 
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Liberty-or-Death

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
411
Location
23235
I've sent my reply.

Bruce:

It's clear to me that you've already made up your mind on the matter. You consider the matter closed. That's fine, and my reply therefore could be meaningless to you. Nevertheless, I am going to give you some free advice intended to make you think, which admittedly, you may find it to be worth exactly what you paid.

American citizens are not given the right to carry a weapon. They are guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution that their government will not take away their God-given right to self defense. Respectfully, you are not stuck between patrons who agree with that right and patrons who irrationally fear the tools they might need to use. These patrons are not intimidated by guns, they are indoctrinated and uneducated about guns. The people who OC just want to be left alone, to go safely about their day and mind their own business.

Now, the purpose of concealed carry is to defend oneself and keep those uneducated people ignorant that you are armed and ignorant of the truth about firearms, but you do look unarmed and like a potential victim to a criminal. Meanwhile, the purpose of open carry is to defend oneself and to educate people, and to not look like a potential victim to a criminal. I say again, open carry is not meant to intimidate or flaunt, but to educate and as a deterrent for evil to beware. If you oppose open carry (you say you favor OC but your actions and words betray you), then you support their ignorance and your own, making them feel safer, while in reality making everyone less safe.

Regardless of how safe you try to make your parking lot and your establishment, evil still exists in the world, and it's ultimately each individual's right and responsibility to defend themselves and their loved ones from that evil. What do you do when faced with making a choice between losing the ignorant market share or losing the educated market share? You EDUCATE those ignorant patrons yourself. With your military history and carry experience, you are uniquely positioned to do just that. Then you are left with all educated patrons that not only feel safer, but are safer, and also remain patrons. Win-win-win.

You are of course correct that as proprietor, you make the rules regarding your private property, and your rules are final. That said, I don't agree that those patrons who left without paying were law breakers and here's why. You offered a service and they placed an order, you accepted their order and entered into contract with them, then you changed the terms of the contract. Had it been me, I'd probably have given you the chance to make good on your original contract or accept my departure without payment. But as proprietor, you make the rules, and you can change the rules, but how you did so mid-contract was poor form.

Perhaps with this different perspective, you may consider changing the rules for the better, for the safety of all concerned. I don't expect a reply, I know you consider the matter closed, I just hope I've made you think.

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/7230-open-carry-argument.html

http://www.examiner.com/article/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw
 
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utbagpiper

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Jul 5, 2006
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This is their reply:

OUR HOUSE OUR RULES. End of disscussion. Thank you for asking, I mean no disrespect, sincerly Bruce Brown

No disrespect, but "your kind" is not welcome unless you can go deep enough into the closet that no one knows your kind is here.

During Jim Crow, some number of establishments would at least serve blacks if they used the back door, or sat in the balcony, or were content to sit in the back of the bus.

How is "leave your gun in your car" any less offensive than "leave your burka or turban in your car" or "you and your same-sex partner are welcome as long as you don't show any affection toward one another lest someone realize you are intimate rather than just friends or business associates"?

Stinkin' small-minded bigots. And the bigotry does't stink any less just because it is directed toward us rather than some other (once) unpopular group.

Charles
 

Alpine

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Aug 10, 2012
Messages
671
Location
Idaho
No disrespect, but "your kind" is not welcome unless you can go deep enough into the closet that no one knows your kind is here.

During Jim Crow, some number of establishments would at least serve blacks if they used the back door, or sat in the balcony, or were content to sit in the back of the bus.

How is "leave your gun in your car" any less offensive than "leave your burka or turban in your car" or "you and your same-sex partner are welcome as long as you don't show any affection toward one another lest someone realize you are intimate rather than just friends or business associates"?

Stinkin' small-minded bigots. And the bigotry does't stink any less just because it is directed toward us rather than some other (once) unpopular group.

Charles

Great post. I agree completely. We need to reframe concealed carry as "closet carry" and point out that anyone opposed to OC is a bigot that is the same as whites not wanting to "see" blacks during segregation out in public or at businesses.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I've sent my reply.

Bruce:

It's clear to me that you've already made up your mind on the matter. You consider the matter closed. That's fine, and my reply therefore could be meaningless to you. Nevertheless, I am going to give you some free advice intended to make you think, which admittedly, you may find it to be worth exactly what you paid...
Excellent reply.
 

utbagpiper

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Jul 5, 2006
Messages
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Location
Utah
I can say for a matter of fact I will not be stepping into that establishment EVER. "Closet Carry", I like it!

To be clear, I am very much in favor of discrete carry anytime someone prefers it for whatever personal reason. I simply don't think it should be required.

As a gun owner, I have no intention of burying myself in the same closet the homosexuals have so recently--and with such difficulty--vacated.

I don't care whether a business owner or anyone else doesn't like my choice to own and carry a gun, perhaps visibly. He should say no more about that than he would feel comfortable saying about a clergyman in priestly vestments, a homosexual couple holding hands, purple hair, etc.

That the laws force business owners to provide service to certain groups that may offend them, while providing no legal protection for the lawful possession of guns is offensive. Since we are not going to repeal anti-discrimination laws, we ought to add lawful possession of a gun to the list of protected categories.

Charles
 
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