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Thread: Kentucky Chuck E. Cheese refuses to serve police officer with firearm

  1. #1
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    Kentucky Chuck E. Cheese refuses to serve police officer with firearm

    [Edmonson County Sheriff Shane] Doyle told the station he still plans to take his family to the Bowling Green Chuck E. Cheese, but he added that everybody “needs to understand that somebody who is trained and qualified to carry a weapon, they’re there to help people.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/23...?intcmp=hplnws
    The good sheriff is dim to say the least. Irony is, apparently, not in his personal dictionary.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Reading further local coverage, the irony is deep in this one.

    Training is the rationale for cops admittance, but training is the cops' criticism of the manager of the establishment.

    Advised use of irony is in the lexicon of few. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

    A pox on both heir houses; I'd sooner McDonalds than Chuckey Cheese.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 08-24-2015 at 08:20 AM.
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    Odd, I've never had a cop "help me". And they cannot make me "free-er". And, we train monkeys not people.

    Awww..sheriff from another county complaining? So he would not trespass anyone in his jurisdiction if a business owner complained? Right!

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    I'm still trying to find that state law that allows LE to override private business rules.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    I pretty sick and tired of the Executive Branch, Legislative Branch and the Judicial Branch of our government believing they are our masters.

    I don't understand how they think they are entitled to be respected.

    I have a 90 year old neighbor flying his American flag at half staff with a sign under it saying "our country is in morning."

    His pain is my pain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    I pretty sick and tired of the Executive Branch, Legislative Branch and the Judicial Branch of our government believing they are our masters. I don't understand how they think they are entitled to be respected. I have a 90 year old neighbor flying his American flag at half staff with a sign under it saying "our country is in morning." His pain is my pain.
    Meanwhile, in Dickson County, Tennessee, the school district has prohibited students flying the American Flag from their vehicles while on public school district property. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...including-ame/
    Last edited by Nightmare; 08-24-2015 at 04:41 PM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I believe that being a police officer is not one of the protected categories under civil rights laws. The manager can trespass him for any reason, even just for being a LEO.

    The sense of entitlement is what is driving more honest people to dislike the police. And current officers do not understand why they are not showered with kisses, and hugs.

    I have poor tolerance for those who feel entitled, anybody, and that includes politicians, and their agents.

    Next thing the sheriff will be claiming that laws entitle them to free meals.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 08-24-2015 at 04:41 PM.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I believe that being a police officer is not one of the protected categories under civil rights laws. The manager can trespass him for any reason, even just for being a LEO.

    The sense of entitlement is what is driving more honest people to dislike the police. And current officers do not understand why they are not showered with kisses, and hugs.

    I have poor tolerance for those who feel entitled, anybody, and that includes politicians, and their agents.

    Next thing the sheriff will be claiming that laws entitle them to free meals.
    We are an entitlement nation, aren't we?

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    Wisc. Stats. § 943.13  Trespass to land.
    [ ... ] [definitions]
    (1m) Whoever does any of the following is subject to a Class B forfeiture:
    (a) Enters any enclosed, cultivated or undeveloped land of another, other than open land specified in par. (e) or (f), without the express or implied consent of the owner or occupant.
    [ ... ]
    (b) Enters or remains on any land of another after having been notified by the owner or occupant not to enter or remain on the premises. This paragraph does not apply to a licensee or out-of-state licensee if the owner's or occupant's intent is to prevent the licensee or out-of-state licensee from carrying a firearm on the owner's or occupant's land. [basic trespass law]
    [ ... ]
    2. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresidential building, or land that the actor does not own or occupy after the owner of the building, grounds, or land, if that part of the building, grounds, or land has not been leased to another person, or the occupant of that part of the building, grounds, or land has notified the actor not to enter or remain in that part of the building, grounds, or land while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. ...
    [ ... ]
    4. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any part of a building that is owned, occupied, or controlled by the state or any local governmental unit, excluding any building or portion of a building under s. 175.60 (16) (a), if the state or local governmental unit has notified the actor not to enter or remain in the building while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm....
    (4m) 
    (am) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    [ ... ] [LEO excepted]
    (bm) Subsection (1m) (c) 2. and 4. does not apply to a law enforcement officer employed in this state by a public agency to whom s. 941.23 (1) (g) 2. to 5. and (2) (b) 1. to 3. applies, to a qualified out-of-state law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 941.23 (1) (g), to whom s. 941.23 (2) (b) 1. to 3. applies, or to a former officer, as defined in s. 941.23 (1) (c), to whom s. 941.23 (2) (c) 1. to 7. applies if the law enforcement officer, the qualified out-of-state law enforcement officer, or the former officer is in or on the grounds of a school, as defined in s. 948.61 (1) (b).

    http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/stat...utes/943/II/13
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    That law appears to allow them to be armed, but I believe it would be unconstitutional if the law allows them to trespass on private property when told to leave. It really is the same for LAC, firearms are not trespassed, people are. If they are there in an official capacity then the fourth amendment applies, but it appears this officer was there for food, and fun while armed.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Is chucky chese a gun free establishment? Oh yes, children are there.... Seems like a good place for bad guys to maim and murder... Who will protect the children and the employees when the bad guys come?
    My .02

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    If such a law grants immunity to LEO to ignore and override private business in the name of eating pizza, society is a lot scarier than I thought.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I believe that being a police officer is not one of the protected categories under civil rights laws....

    That law appears to allow them to be armed, but I believe it would be unconstitutional if the law allows them to trespass on private property when told to leave.
    My biggest beef with civil rights laws is that there are "protected categories" rather than requiring equal treatment of everyone, period.

    If a business owner cannot legally refuse service to a black man, a Catholic, a homosexual, a republican, or a disabled person, if a store selling "east coast collegiate style clothing" can't require employees to dress in that clothing if doing so violates their religious beliefs, if bakers and photographers can be required to provide services in support of conduct that violates their conscience, then why should a business owner be allowed to refuse to service to someone who happens to be in lawful, possession of a firearm? Or even a person who happens to be a cop?

    If the only way a business owner knows two men are homosexual is that they chose to hold hands in his store he would not get away with refusing service because they were holding hands. He'd get dinged for refusing service to homosexuals. Ditto if a business owner refused service to someone wearing a crucifix, a headscarf, or a yarmulke. He is going to have some explaining to do about religious discrimination.

    So why is it ok to refuse service to someone in lawful possession of a firearm? Are we gun owners really ok being told to sit at the back of the bus?

    What is someone's tag line around here contends? Either we are all equal are we are not. Get rid of the civil rights "protected categories" and treat everyone equally.

    (Which is not to say I don't take a little perverse pleasure seeing cops treated equally poorly as legally armed LACs. But treating Jews as badly as blacks or Catholics isn't quite the equality civil rights laws are supposed to yield.)

    Charles
    Last edited by utbagpiper; 08-24-2015 at 09:09 PM.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
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    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    [ ... ]What is someone's tag line around here contends? Either we are all equal are we are not. [ ... ]
    oh my! What incredible insight. The author is beyond mere genius! Either we are equal or we are not.
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    I feel the same way, that how is it legal to request a law abiding citizen exercising a constitutional right to leave the premises, when according to rules & regulations they have done nothing wrong.

    I watched the DVD "Handgun basics for self-defense and target shooting" that was done by Lenny Magill that was released back in 1994 & I remember, one time, saying a handgun was a tool.

    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    My biggest beef with civil rights laws is that there are "protected categories" rather than requiring equal treatment of everyone, period.

    If a business owner cannot legally refuse service to a black man, a Catholic, a homosexual, a republican, or a disabled person, if a store selling "east coast collegiate style clothing" can't require employees to dress in that clothing if doing so violates their religious beliefs, if bakers and photographers can be required to provide services in support of conduct that violates their conscience, then why should a business owner be allowed to refuse to service to someone who happens to be in lawful, possession of a firearm? Or even a person who happens to be a cop?

    If the only way a business owner knows two men are homosexual is that they chose to hold hands in his store he would not get away with refusing service because they were holding hands. He'd get dinged for refusing service to homosexuals. Ditto if a business owner refused service to someone wearing a crucifix, a headscarf, or a yarmulke. He is going to have some explaining to do about religious discrimination.

    So why is it ok to refuse service to someone in lawful possession of a firearm? Are we gun owners really ok being told to sit at the back of the bus?

    What is someone's tag line around here contends? Either we are all equal are we are not. Get rid of the civil rights "protected categories" and treat everyone equally.

    (Which is not to say I don't take a little perverse pleasure seeing cops treated equally poorly as legally armed LACs. But treating Jews as badly as blacks or Catholics isn't quite the equality civil rights laws are supposed to yield.)

    Charles

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    oh my! What incredible insight. The author is beyond mere genius! Either we are equal or we are not.
    We are all equal. Just some more than others. (law school here I come ! just kidding)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mnrobitaille View Post
    I feel the same way, that how is it legal to request a law abiding citizen exercising a constitutional right to leave the premises, when according to rules & regulations they have done nothing wrong. [ ... ]
    It is an old argument (means defense) here, that property rights, and ones property right in oneself, may be the most fundamental of rights.
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    Individual private property rights is the foundation of liberty. When the state is used to infringe upon our individual private property right liberty does not exist.

    As far as WI goes:
    (bm) Subsection (1m) (c) 2. and 4. does not apply to a law enforcement officer ... if the law enforcement officer, ... is in or on the grounds of a school, as defined in s. 948.61 (1) (b).
    As far as KY goes: Have not found in the trespassing laws of KY any exemptions for LE. I did not search too vigorously.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Individual private property rights is the foundation of liberty. When the state is used to infringe upon our individual private property right liberty does not exist.

    As far as WI goes:

    As far as KY goes: Have not found in the trespassing laws of KY any exemptions for LE. I did not search too vigorously.
    LOL you lost track of the commas and clauses.
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    Lost track of? This presupposes that I had a track on them in the first instance.

    Essentially, in WI, a outta-stater or "usta-be" fuzz can have a gat if his current or former cop shop lets him have a gat. He can't be "in his cups" while he has is gat, Mexican style of course, while ignoring the no gat signs on private [open to the public] and gub'mint property. No burp gats, no "destructive devices that ain't a gat," or silenced gats. Finally, the a fore mentioned fuzz has to have is LEOSA get outta jail card.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    ...Get rid of the civil rights "protected categories" and treat everyone equally...
    Individuals are naturally free to discriminate against anyone for any or no reason. All legislation to the contrary is illegitimate and should be repealed.

    The State has no business protecting, regulating or coercing private interactions and associations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATM View Post
    Individuals are naturally free to discriminate against anyone for any or no reason. All legislation to the contrary is illegitimate and should be repealed.
    I would not actively oppose your efforts to get all such laws repealed. But I don't think you're likely to have much success.

    And so long as they do exist, I believe firearm owners/carriers should enjoy the same level of protection of obtaining basic goods and services in the commercial sphere as do two men holding hands, a woman wearing a burka, a man wearing a yarmulke, or some gal with unshaved arm pits sporting a rainbow tank top.

    Equal application of laws--including laws that some might consider unjust--is one of the sure ways to get unjust laws repealed. Selective application allows one group to infringe on another without personal cost.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Individual private property rights is the foundation of liberty. .
    I thought self-ownership was the foundation of liberty.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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