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Thread: Black Voices: We Donít Need Armed Students on Campuses. TheProgressive.org

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    Black Voices: We Donít Need Armed Students on Campuses. TheProgressive.org

    "Texas has just joined Colorado, Idaho, Kansas, Mississippi, Oregon, Utah and Wisconsin on the list of states authorizing concealed handguns for students over the age of 21. Twenty-three other states give their universities the leeway to decide whether to allow guns.

    There has been no major demand on college campuses from students who want to bring guns to school. Instead, pro-gun laws have been foisted on colleges and universities that donít want them. Why? Because of the power of the gun lobby.
    [ ... ]
    While there have been mass shootings on campuses, that does not mean we need to have armed individuals scattered among us. It has yet to be proven that such individuals are an effective deterrent. When there are armed students on campuses, it actually increases the risk of innocents being killed in shootouts. And in the short time that Utah, the state that started this trend, has allowed guns on campus, there is no conclusive evidence that guns have reduced campus crime.

    We donít need vigilantes. We have professional law enforcement, which sometimes has problems, but is still accountable to us.

    http://www.progressive.org/news/2015...dents-campuses

    The irony is deep and dark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    (quoting the article) " And in the short time that Utah, the state that started this trend, has allowed guns on campus, ..."


    While our grade school students are too young to carry guns, our State preemption does extend to their teachers, lunch room servers, parents, and every other adult legally in the school with a permit to carry. There can be no employment nor other policy preventing public school teachers from legally carrying guns on the job in Utah.



    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    (quoting the article) "...there is no conclusive evidence that guns have reduced campus crime.
    And even less evidence that such guns have increased campus crime. So no reason not to go with the position that respects individual rights and freedom. Let us also remember, that not every victim of a crime who was disarmed by a policy or law at a school, university, hospital, or employer is victimized on campus, at work, or in the hospital. People have to travel from home to school and work, and then back again. Often they may need to do so at less than ideal times, through bad neighborhoods, etc. Sometimes a stop along the way to do grocery shopping or conduct other personal business is necessary.

    Yet how many places are allowed to impose gun bans that leave people defenseless well outside the areas that the establishment claims to "control"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    (quoting the article)"We donít need vigilantes. We have professional law enforcement, which sometimes has problems, but is still accountable to us."

    (End quotes from article)

    http://www.progressive.org/news/2015...dents-campuses

    The irony is deep and dark
    I think the word you are looking for is not irony but rather chutzpah. Or flat out lies. Talk about wanting their cake and eating it to. If nothing else, it puts their priorities into perspective. They're so enamored with disarming good men that they will speak well of the cops they otherwise claim are gunning them down randomly for sport (ok, a little literary hyperbole on my part, but not much) in order to bolster the case for disarming us.

    Also evidence that those most likely to be victims of police abuse probably are not reading websites like the one where such tripe was posted.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    ... While there have been mass shootings on campuses, that does not mean we need to have armed individuals scattered among us. It has yet to be proven that such individuals are an effective deterrent. When there are armed students on campuses, it actually increases the risk of innocents being killed in shootouts. And in the short time that Utah, the state that started this trend, has allowed guns on campus, there is no conclusive evidence that guns have reduced campus crime. ...
    It has yet to be proven that cops are an effective deterrent.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It has yet to be proven that cops are an effective deterrent.
    I agree police officers are not literally effective deterrent. Even though they are a deterrent if there at that location or posted close by. There's many cases where open carry or concealed carry person was able to deter a crime.


    As an example look at this

    Man Gets Shot Over Lebron James Shoes Folks Continue Waiting In Line


    Published on Jun 28, 2013(June 22) in Atlanta, a man was shot and killed after trying to rob customers lined up to buy an exclusive pair of LeBron James' signature sneakers, Zero ***** Given By The Crowd.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SOoK27DnJDw

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    ...It has yet to be proven that such individuals are an effective deterrent. When there are armed students on campuses, it actually increases the risk of innocents being killed in shootouts...
    Because it's difficult to determine why someone didn't do something when you never even find out that they didn't go through with it.

    The potential few innocents killed in a "shootout" is infinitely more acceptable than the many more we currently get in massacres.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    "We don't need..." Newsflash, it isn't about what you need, bro.

    What's it about, then? Acknowledgement and respect of individual human rights.

    Super simple. Time to stop trying to change the arguments, and time to get over yourself, not everything is about you.

    I somewhat question why this was even posted. Surely we don't need to analyze and discuss every rag that can be found on the internet...

    And this blog or whatever it is, contains literally nothing that we've not seen before...
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 08-27-2015 at 11:43 AM.
    Advocate freedom please

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    I don't fall for the "look, this does that" lines of argument ... as they are a) too easily dismissed by other people and b) are not relevant to our RKBA.

    Our founders likely understood that guns are dangerous and that some innocent and guilty would die from them; its a price that they recognized as being required if one wishes to live in a free society and that the RKBA existed long before they did.

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