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Thread: ATF: TV news murderer Vester Flanagan bought his handgun legally

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    ATF: TV news murderer Vester Flanagan bought his handgun legally

    "The former TV newsman who fatally shot a reporter and a videographer during a live broadcast Wednesday in central Virginia purchased the handgun he used in the killings legally, according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. He purchased them legally in Virginia, said spokesman Thomas Faison.
    [ ... ]
    Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe spoke out about the need for background checks Wednesday before it was known how Flanagan obtained the gun. It goes back [to] what Ive talked about for a long time there are too many guns in the hands of people who should not have guns, Mr. McAuliffe said during an interview on WTOP. This is why Ive long advocated for background checks. Im a gun owner, Im a hunter. But you know what? I went through background checks myself in America, we have got to come together. There is too much gun violence in the United States of America.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...t-his-handgun/

    There is too much MURDER in the United States of America.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    As the Everly Brothers would sing.....

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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b08dc094868b2b

    Andy Parker, the father of slain WDBJ journalist Alison Parker, is demanding that politicians restrict access to firearms, saying he will personally become a crusader for this issue if need be.

    "If I have to be the John Walsh of gun control and -- look, I'm for the Second Amendment, but there has to be a way to force politicians that are cowards and in the pockets of the NRA to come to grips and make sense -- have sensible laws so that crazy people can't get guns. It can't be that hard," said Parker in an interview with CNN's "New Day."

    ....

    What generally happens after mass shootings is that politicians offer their condolences but wave off any calls for gun control or other legislative measures. They say it's too soon and not the right time. But with mass shootings happening nearly every week, this sort of response essentially puts the issue off indefinitely.

    ....

    "[P]oliticians from the local level to the state level to the national level, they sidestep the issue. They kick the can down the road. This can't happen anymore," he said.

    Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D) called Parker Wednesday, and Parker told him he was going to be a "crusader" on the issue.

    "And I know that the NRA, their position is going to be -- I can hear it now. They're going to say, 'Oh gee, well, if they were carrying, this never would have happened,'" Parker said.

    ....

    Parker made a similar call for action Wednesday night on Fox News, saying he was ready to "shame legislators" who oppose solutions like more background checks for gun purchases.
    Mcauliffe's son tries to carve him up like a Thanksgiving turkey and there was no law for (more) background checks for knife purchases, or harsher laws about unsafe knife storage. Then it was all about how there were not enough MH evaluation/treatment beds. It was all about how difficult it was for parents/family to deal with/help those with serious MH problems.

    Now some guy known to have a screw or two loose, if not completely worked out and dropped on the roadway several miles back, becomes this week's poster child for tighter gun controls because there was a reluctance on the part of many people to address some rather obvious and violent MH problems.

    The fact that this murderer passed the required background check means nothing to these folks. There must have been something missing from the background check that needs to be added so that crazy murderers cannot get their hands on guns seems to be the standard response. Not a thing about changing/improving the MH system to proactively dealing with folks like this guy - just like McAuliffe begged and pleaded for following his son attempted to kill him.

    stay safe.
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    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Uh, Skid,

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b08dc094868b2b



    Mcauliffe's son tries to carve him up like a Thanksgiving turkey and there was no law for (more) background checks for knife purchases, or harsher laws about unsafe knife storage. Then it was all about how there were not enough MH evaluation/treatment beds. It was all about how difficult it was for parents/family to deal with/help those with serious MH problems.

    Now some guy known to have a screw or two loose, if not completely worked out and dropped on the roadway several miles back, becomes this week's poster child for tighter gun controls because there was a reluctance on the part of many people to address some rather obvious and violent MH problems.

    The fact that this murderer passed the required background check means nothing to these folks. There must have been something missing from the background check that needs to be added so that crazy murderers cannot get their hands on guns seems to be the standard response. Not a thing about changing/improving the MH system to proactively dealing with folks like this guy - just like McAuliffe begged and pleaded for following his son attempted to kill him.

    stay safe.

    aren't you referring to Deeds' son, not McAwful's?

    sidestreet

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    Last edited by sidestreet; 08-27-2015 at 06:51 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Good Googly Moogly!

    http://www.aol.com/article/2015/08/2...%3D-1866221789

    I know AOL is one of the centers of SJW liberalism, but go there and read the comments. Unbelievable.

    Folks are all over the fact that the mirderer passed a background check, that the gun is not to blame for what the murderer did with it, and that [paraphrasing Andy Parker]even if they had an AK-47 tried around their waist it would not have saved them[/paraphrasing] is such an ironic statement.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    MH evaluations should start with our politicians and that includes judges.

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    Again blaming the object instead of the user.

    Who really gives a a rats behind where the weapon came from nobody except those with a anti gun agenda.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Again blaming the object instead of the user.

    Who really gives a a rats behind where the weapon came from nobody except those with a anti gun agenda.
    True for this case, but if the shooter was a white male, and victims happened to be black, you could bet your house it would be race related. The left wing anti-Americans are already making the shooter out to be the victim since he was a black homosexual. Just keeping it real.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidestreet View Post
    aren't you referring to Deeds' son, not McAwful's?

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29 : 11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.
    How do you tell the fathers apart?

    Seriously, my bad. But it does not change the issue.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Was clearly a pissed off ex-employee and not a mental health issue. IMO

    Zero to do with anything gun related.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Was clearly a pissed off ex-employee and not a mental health issue. IMO

    Zero to do with anything gun related.
    Am I getting this right? The inability to control anger is not a mental health issue? The inability to stop oneself from committing calculated, premeditated murder is not a mental health issue?

    I am truly interested in how you arrived at your opinion. (No, not by riding the short bus.) What indicators of - or more properly the absence of - mental health problems did you consider? Are you even licensed to offer an opinion about the existence or absence of a mental health problem?

    Then again, I am becoming more and more convinced that the progressive educational system, along with parenting notions since Benjamin Spock, may be more at the root of outburst like this that result in murder. Yes, this is the rant about how nobody is responsible for their own mistakes and even if they were they should not suffer any negative consequences because that might damage their self esteem. (Where's the steaming pile of dung smiley when you need one?) Which, BTW, results in symptoms of a clearly defined mental disorder.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    The wackjobs entire refrigerator is covered with pictures of himself, what normal person does that? Narcissist disorder at the very least.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    "The former TV newsman who fatally shot a reporter and a videographer during a live broadcast Wednesday in central Virginia purchased the handgun he used in the killings legally, according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. He purchased them legally in Virginia, said spokesman Thomas Faison.
    [ ... ]
    How does the BATF&E know this? How many gun stores are in VA. Did a/the gun seller remember the perp and call the cops?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    How does the BATF&E know this? How many gun stores are in VA. Did a/the gun seller remember the perp and call the cops?
    Maybe they call Glock and say where did you ship serial# such and such, then go to that gun store and ask them to pull the record?

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    wonder what historical fact or relic will be cast forward to be destroyed or removed from civilization to appease the screaming masses resulting from the premeditated murder that just took place?

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    How does the BATF&E know this? How many gun stores are in VA. Did a/the gun seller remember the perp and call the cops?
    ATF agents got the firearm's s/n, went to the manufacturer discovered which distributor or FFL the firearm was sent to, went to the distributor to find out which FFL received it, went to the FFL and found out how it was purchased...

    must be originally purchased by the shooter since the determination was made so quickly...

    piece of cake and done telephonically
    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mas49.56 View Post
    The wackjobs entire refrigerator is covered with pictures of himself, what normal person does that? Narcissist disorder at the very least.
    WACKJOB ~ really?? that is quite an appropriate form of address, isn't it?

    and your definitiaon of NORMAL?? oh wait referring to someone who is apparently suffering from a mental breakdown as a WACKJOB is normal, eh??

    skid, lookie, yet another MH professional diagnostician who prob works with David...
    (MAS do everyone a favor and research before you spout off bovine discharge and further confuse the masses: http://behavenet.com/node/21653 as i seem to miss the the specific criteria of having pictures of one's self on the fridge as even remotely leading to your BS statement!!)

    and mas you have no fotos of family, friends, etc mag'd to your fridge? no, and yet you call someone who does 'abnormal' and a WACKJOB...you might wish to visit some normal families' homes and look at their littered fridges showing family art, fotos, and other personal mementos.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Am I getting this right? The inability to control anger is not a mental health issue? The inability to stop oneself from committing calculated, premeditated murder is not a mental health issue?

    I am truly interested in how you arrived at your opinion. (No, not by riding the short bus.) What indicators of - or more properly the absence of - mental health problems did you consider? Are you even licensed to offer an opinion about the existence or absence of a mental health problem?

    Then again, I am becoming more and more convinced that the progressive educational system, along with parenting notions since Benjamin Spock, may be more at the root of outburst like this that result in murder. Yes, this is the rant about how nobody is responsible for their own mistakes and even if they were they should not suffer any negative consequences because that might damage their self esteem. (Where's the steaming pile of dung smiley when you need one?) Which, BTW, results in symptoms of a clearly defined mental disorder.

    stay safe.
    Being pissed off at your old employer ... man, only 1/2 the working population has that issue?

    Being angry does not equate automatically to a mental health problem.
    Being unable to control your anger does not automatically = a mental health issue.
    Otherwise every murdered could just say "I have a mental health issue and could not help it".

    I foresee liberals saying "every gun owner should undergo a mental evaluation".

    Having anger is an emotion, like being happy... is perfectly normal.

    Someone getting angry and then causing physical harm to another? This too is not outside the realm of common behavior. I think that we have all hit someone out of anger at some point in our lives.

    So this guy? A mental case? I don't see any evidence and I did not know the guy. Seems to me that he was just a pissed off ex-employee who decided to take revenge in the manner that he did. We have seen this before, yes?

    Not nice behavior but not outside the scope of non-mental human behavior. He just got a gun and checked that mental health question in the negatory ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mas49.56 View Post
    The wackjobs entire refrigerator is covered with pictures of himself, what normal person does that? Narcissist disorder at the very least.
    All his "instagrams"(whatever that/them/they is/are) ! So he does not duplicate post...(?)

    Maybe all that exposure to magnetism from the frig magnets?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mas49.56 View Post
    Maybe they call Glock and say where did you ship serial# such and such, then go to that gun store and ask them to pull the record?
    I'd bet any amount of money the authorities have access electronically to firearm manufacturers' databases. There are simply too many instances where the firearm's origin is known nearly instantly. De facto registration.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Being pissed off at your old employer ... man, only 1/2 the working population has that issue?
    agreed

    Being angry does not equate automatically to a mental health problem.
    agreed

    Being unable to control your anger does not automatically = a mental health issue.
    Then what would you categorize it as? Arrested development (which is a mental health issue)? Impulsivity (which when it repeatedly results in serious negative consequences from which the person does not "learn" is a mental health issue)

    Otherwise every murdered could just say "I have a mental health issue and could not help it".
    disagree. Having a mental health issue and being unable to resist an overwhelming urge that the person knows is wrong to carry out are very different things. Nice try with the red herring diversion to the old - no longer valid in most jurisdictions - not guilty by reason of insanity criteria.

    I foresee liberals saying "every gun owner should undergo a mental evaluation".
    Where have you been? They have been saying that for decades. I guess memos tend to get lost in your inbox.

    Having anger is an emotion, like being happy... is perfectly normal.
    agreed

    Someone getting angry and then causing physical harm to another? This too is not outside the realm of common behavior. I think that we have all hit someone out of anger at some point in our lives.
    Whether we hit another person, or the wall, or break dinner plates/furniture it is still aberrant behavior. Everything but the first action does, however, indicate some degree of attempt to limit the destructiveness of the outburst.

    Will you put up a stake to back up your thought that "we all" - being understood as merely a large portion (say 35%+ for the sake of the wager?) have hit someone out of anger. And I'll include early childhood in that, just to give you a sporting chance at winning.

    So this guy? A mental case? I don't see any evidence and I did not know the guy. Seems to me that he was just a pissed off ex-employee who decided to take revenge in the manner that he did. We have seen this before, yes?
    Again, what do you call his behavior if not a manifestation of a mental health issue? Surely it is not "normal". Surely it is not "exuberant playfulness".

    Not nice behavior but not outside the scope of non-mental human behavior. He just got a gun and checked that mental health question in the negatory ...
    Oh, I see - possibly. He has never experienced any of the very limited events that make one a prohibited person based on mental health grounds, so he answered that question truthfully. I guess there is a crying need for another question, along the lines of "Are you now contemplating using the handgun you are seeking to possess in an illegal manner?" You know, a question that if someone answers "in the negatory" will not mean anything unless they are subsequently arrested for having falsely responded to that question after having affirmed their answer was completely truthful. Or will this new question have the right amount of pixie dust, rainbows, and unicorn farts to compel people who would otherwise lie when answering it to overcome that urge to lie and tell the truth even if it meant it would keep them from getting that/a firearm?

    Who knew - our own davidmcbeth believes, just like Bloomberg and his astroturf minions, and Andy Parker (who has not yet formally joined Bloomberg), there is a need for even more common sense gun control.

    david - consider this: there may be a significant number of people out there who are angry about any of myriad of things that you have done, yet the number who have decided to express that anger by stalking and then ambushing you appears to be so close to zero that any outlier would be statistically insignificant. How does that fit in with your comments above?

    stay safe.
    Last edited by skidmark; 09-01-2015 at 07:52 AM. Reason: fixed a quote box
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Am I getting this right? The inability to control anger is not a mental health issue? The inability to stop oneself from committing calculated, premeditated murder is not a mental health issue?
    Just curious why you assume he was unable to stop himself? It seems more likely he chose to kill people he felt wronged him.
    I also am not convinced it is a mental health defect. He may have been a bad person that wanted to hurt those that he thought wronged him. Perhaps if the manifesto is ever released to the commoners we will have more insight into his condition.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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    Moot debate on "mental health"

    Maybe I'm missing something, but I think a debate over the "mental health" of the murderer is a bit moot. Unless I'm mistaken, even if he had survived to be tried, the only relevant legal question is whether the accused suffered some mental defect that made him unaware that his actions were wrong.

    Regardless of how much proof of anorexia, acrophobia, arachnephobia, or most other mental illnesses might be presented about the murderer in this case, such mental illnesses would be irrelevant to crime committed.

    And given that there are not wholly objective tests for most (any?) forms of mental illness, a doctor who is being paid (either to testify or to treat someone) can probably find some mental illness is almost anyone. I note that the professional medical difference between "mental illness" and an expression of normal variations of healthy human behavior is nothing more than a majority vote of some mental health professionals. Until 1974, homosexuality was listed in the DSM as a mental illness. It was removed not because of any new scientific discovery nor clinical observations, but rather because homosexual persons began to protest that they were not mentally ill. A recent report indicates that some 60% of psychological studies published in one of the three major psych journals cannot have their results reproduced later by independent researchers.

    I personally think it takes a certain level or kind of crazy to commit murder. Simple cost-benefit analysis says such a crime is almost always going to cost the perpetrator a lot more than it gains him, at least in tangible terms. I also believe only a tiny fraction of those who commit murder truly did not understand that what they were doing is wrong, prohibited and punished by society, etc.

    So was the murderer nuts, or just a bad person? Who cares?

    Unless someone wants to claim there was sufficient evidence beforehand to convict him of a crime or find him a material danger to himself or others such that he could be legally committed, he was rightly left free, and free to exercise his rights. Sometimes that results in horrible crimes. Widespread loss of basic freedoms frequently results in horrible genocides. I'll take the relatively rare, small scale horrible crimes against which I can choose to take certain precautions, rather than subjecting entire societies to the much higher risk of genocide against which individual preparations are often futile.

    Charles
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Just curious why you assume he was unable to stop himself? It seems more likely he chose to kill people he felt wronged him.
    I also am not convinced it is a mental health defect. He may have been a bad person that wanted to hurt those that he thought wronged him. Perhaps if the manifesto is ever released to the commoners we will have more insight into his condition.
    sorry twoskins defect is inappropriately used...what manifests, even a temporary mental health issue can range from being slighted while in traffic right after you just had a blow up or fight with wife, boss, kids, or a few or multiple idiots on the road the same day or cumulative events. called road rage...the list goes on what can trigger a loss of self control. most have mental self control to control these types of every day issues.

    however, now please contemplate where your self control is constantly being whittled down from numerous instances over a period of time (different periods for each individual) of having to have to use every ounce of your internal self control instincts to bring and keep your anger back to its status quo...now your partner leaves you, or a loved dies, or you lose your job which in turn ~ leads to loss of your job, automobile, cell phone, a place to go out of the weather, and even finding sustenance is nonexistent, etc., as well as legal issues might be mounting against you, and your network of friend(s) now shun you because your are 'acting strangely' and now your internal self control instincts are no longer available or capable of maintain any semblance of status quo of your anger or emotions or overall mental health.

    this is just the tip of the iceberg of causal scenarios leading to an individual's mental health going awry. unfortunately it can start in childhood, hormonal changes at puberty, manifest itself 17-24, or wait until after the female's first child is born, or from other of life's stressors, ad nauseam, along any individuals walk through life.

    highly recommend you try a walk a mile in someone's shoes who truly suffers from a personality disorder or significant depression and then ask...why can't they stop myself...

    psychotropic meds are horrible relief with more side effects then the disorder presenting itself...

    'nut case, wacko, defect, batshit crazy, loony' these and other terms are words that uneducated ppl use and add to the tremendous social stigma associated with mental health in our society and hamper folk from getting appropriate treatment because the uneducated call them names ~ so those afflicted suffer in silence w/o seeking treatment while trying to meet your standards of normalcy.

    and no it is not a moot point piper...it is an every day event for millions of ppl in this country...lose your job at L3 with associated medical insurance, leading to loss of your property and precious chickens, lose your network of support, get into legal binds from traffic tickets, bankruptcy, and then have, a close family member fall terminally ill with medical bills you can not pay so you don't get the appropriate meds, and since this can happen quite quickly over even a six month window...let's check your mental health and see if it truly is a moot point!!

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-02-2015 at 03:26 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Well if the guy was a "wackjob", as some else eloquently put it, he's cured ! But I have read that he was teased, etc. at work. I think he remembered that.

    And I do agree that there should be reasonable gun control ... people should be able to hit their targets.

    Hey, normal everyday people get pissed to the point where they say "screw the consequences...".

    We don't have the word "revenge" in the dictionary for nothing.

    A gay aging prostitute may harbor more anger than the average joe ... I really don't know that much about aging gay prostitutes.

    I take his rantings for what they are worth and considering the source...worthless.

    Anyway, this instance of murder will not be the poster child of liberals to try to promote gun control.

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