Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 125

Thread: Nothing is more terrifying ...than Trumpís embrace of a tangible American nationalism

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154

    Nothing is more terrifying ...than Trumpís embrace of a tangible American nationalism

    Nothing is more terrifying to the elite than Trumpís embrace of a tangible American nationalism

    "[ ... ]
    Trumpís popularity, while beyond doubt, is treated not as a legitimate expression of popular will but as a mass psychosis to be diagnosed. It would seem to be the duty of every American pundit today to explain the inexplicable and problematic rise of Donald Trump. The critical question, however, is not the source of Trumpís popularity but rather the reason his popularity is so shocking to our political culture. Perhaps Trumpís candidacy threatens a larger consensus that governs our political and social life, and perhaps his popularity signifies a profound challenge to elite opinion.
    [ ... ]"

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/articl...s_1020527.html
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  2. #2
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,795
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Nothing is more terrifying to the elite than Trumpís embrace of a tangible American nationalism

    "[ ... ]
    Trumpís popularity, while beyond doubt, is treated not as a legitimate expression of popular will but as a mass psychosis to be diagnosed. It would seem to be the duty of every American pundit today to explain the inexplicable and problematic rise of Donald Trump. The critical question, however, is not the source of Trumpís popularity but rather the reason his popularity is so shocking to our political culture. Perhaps Trumpís candidacy threatens a larger consensus that governs our political and social life, and perhaps his popularity signifies a profound challenge to elite opinion.
    [ ... ]"

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/articl...s_1020527.html
    Maybe should be merged with the other Trump thread.

    Let me just post here that I believe (at best) the NYC and DC media and the GOP establishment are so out of touch with the grassroots GOP they don't even know they are out of touch.

    Trump' campaign reminds me of the 1990 movie "Crazy People" where the ad exec goes crazy, tells the absolute truth, and has wild success because so many people are tired of being lied to.

    I'm tired of being managed. I'm tired of "debates" that are a series of sound bites to "questions" that nobody outside the beltway cares about while issues of real concern are ignored or glossed over. I'm tired of a media that constantly conflates "illegal aliens" with "legal immigrants" and "criminal violence" with "lawful gun ownership", "vigilantism" with "self defense", and that shapes the news by ignoring any candidate outside the establishment group think.

    I don't much like nor trust Trump. But I like that the GOP establishment and media can't ignore him and that he is saying some things--however inelegantly at times--that need to be said.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  3. #3
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    See? Did not take the media long to equate him to a Nazi.

    Ha ha ha. Media.

  5. #5
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,278
    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    Piper - maybe Peter Finch's rant in the movie "Network" would be more appropriate.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS4aiA17YsM
    I just wonder how many people would be arrested if they actually did that~~~I also wonder how many people are dying to step outside and scream "I am mad as hell, and I am not going to take it anymore".

    Trump is America screaming, but the media, and the career politicians refuse to listen.
    It is well that war is so terrible Ė otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  6. #6
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    ...
    What about the ones we have met. That's the problem with anarchists, they keep forgetting that some folks do get around and find that "nationalism" is not always a bad thing. One of the great things about the USA is that we, the nationalists that is, do not all desire to have the anarchist next door to be compelled to help out from time to time. I find anarchists to be rather unreliable when the chips are down...unless there is something in it for them...that is.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  7. #7
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,878
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I just wonder how many people would be arrested if they actually did that~~~I also wonder how many people are dying to step outside and scream "I am mad as hell, and I am not going to take it anymore".

    Trump is America screaming, but the media, and the career politicians refuse to listen.
    the media is just now awakening to his rhetoric as possibly viable as the public makes known they are disgusted with the media pooh paw'n the man's discussion(s) and JQP is not going to be dismissive of Trump and his ideas.

    i for one am glad he is bringing up the topics he is in front of God and country so finally, just maybe we can move forward...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  8. #8
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    What about the ones we have met. That's the problem with anarchists, they keep forgetting that some folks do get around and find that "nationalism" is not always a bad thing. One of the great things about the USA is that we, the nationalists that is, do not all desire to have the anarchist next door to be compelled to help out from time to time. I find anarchists to be rather unreliable when the chips are down...unless there is something in it for them...that is.
    I separate the state and putting the state above love of my country and fellows.

    Nationalism puts the government above this and puts the government as right over other states simply because its the government.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  9. #9
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    nationalism - noun na∑tion∑al∑ism \ˈnash-nə-ˌli-zəm, ˈna-shə-nə-ˌli-zəm\: a feeling that people have of being loyal to and proud of their country often with the belief that it is better and more important than other countries: a desire by a large group of people (such as people who share the same culture, history, language, etc.) to form a separate and independent nation of their own

    Full Definition of NATIONALISM
    1: loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups
    2: a nationalist movement or government
    Based on the above definition I am most certainly a nationalist. Except #2, it's the government part that drives me to balk.

    Now there is this version of "nationalism."
    fascism - noun fas∑cism \ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\: a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government: very harsh control or authority

    Full Definition of FASCISM
    1 often capitalized: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
    2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality ó J. W. Aldridge>
    Then there is what our liberal friends would like.
    socialism - noun so∑cial∑ism \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\: a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies

    Full Definition of SOCIALISM
    1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
    2a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
    2b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
    3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
    Nope, not this one either.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  10. #10
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,878
    OC4ME not sure where your definitions you referenced, but...

    it is well defined the term socialism is not a form of governmental entity, but rather a form of social economic system a government uses to control their political agenda through promoting social ownership to the masses. Communism is in fact a form of government which embraces socialism for their economic guidelines.

    again, it is well defined the term fascism is an authoritarian, not specifically a dictator based, form of nationalism who's radical political entity strives for self-sufficiency economic status quo of the entity not capitalism for individuals within the social community.

    i shan't clarify your definition of nationalism but...

    splitting hairs no! just hate continuing to propagate these myths about socialism being a form of government when it is not and fascism is a dictator based, again it was not designed to function in that capacity.
    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 08-31-2015 at 12:19 PM. Reason: clarifications
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    OC4ME not sure where your definitions you referenced, but...

    ...
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/

    At the above website is a box for the entering of the word in question.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Based on the above definition I am most certainly a nationalist. Except #2, it's the government part that drives me to balk.

    Now there is this version of "nationalism."Then there is what our liberal friends would like.
    Nope, not this one either.
    I don't think you can separate the first definition from government either.

    Country is a better term for love of ones culture and land of birth. IHO.

    Either way you are liberty centric and a friend as far as I am concerned.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    1,929
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I don't think you can separate the first definition from government either.

    Country is a better term for love of ones culture and land of birth. IHO.

    Either way you are liberty centric and a friend as far as I am concerned.
    Holy ****, SVG, knock off that "civility" crap. You're going to ruin our image!!!

  14. #14
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,795
    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    Piper - maybe Peter Finch's rant in the movie "Network" would be more appropriate.
    I'd long since forgotten that one. But I think you are correct.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  15. #15
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,795
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post

    [Poster with bumper sticker meme deleted]
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I don't think you can separate the first definition from government either.

    Country is a better term for love of ones culture and land of birth. IHO.

    Either way you are liberty centric and a friend as far as I am concerned.
    Prime example of why it is a good idea to get definitions straight before getting too worked up over a single word. No doubt the liberal press has done a lot to make "Nationalism" a dirty word. But the fact is, most who use it intend by it very much what you've conceded "OC for Me" can mean while still being "liberty centric" and "a friend".

    I make no apologies for promoting what I believe is the American Culture here. I don't care to impose it anywhere else in the world. I expect the French, Spanish, Mexicans, Germans, Japanese, Saudis, etc are all pretty fond of their cultures. And each of them have positive aspects we might emulate. But at the end of the day, I live where I do precisely because I prefer the culture here to all other options I've ever studied or seen. And whatever else I may think of Trump, I'm taking pleasure in watching him do a little unapologetic promoting of the American culture and protecting it from being wiped out through various thoughtless policies that seem intended either to that purpose, or at least to enrich and empower a few elites at the expense of many of the rest of us.

    I will agree with you that government and culture are hard to decouple. I believe our government is both shaped by, and influences our culture. Like the culture itself, it isn't perfect. But I prefer our government to all other options of which I'm aware, including the pipe dream of having a civilized society in the absence of government.

    Charles
    Last edited by utbagpiper; 09-01-2015 at 09:46 PM.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  16. #16
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I don't think you can separate the first definition from government either.

    Country is a better term for love of ones culture and land of birth. IHO.

    Either way you are liberty centric and a friend as far as I am concerned.
    Entirely correct.

    Because: "to form a separate and independent nation of their own" typically means that "a government" is instituted by the citizens of the nation they desired to create. We, the USA, once had a government that they desired...mostly. Just cuz the government we have today is very far removed from the then desired government is besides the point. Our current government has separated itself from liberty and thus the citizenry.

    ...or:

    Major Rufus Cobb: That's the stuff! People ain't hating nowadays like they used to. They gettin' soft. I got to admit that I like a man that hauls off and hates good and hard. It's the lawyers - gol-dang it - it's the lawyers are messin' up the whole world! Why ten years ago, here in Liberty, we didn't have no lawyers and we got along fine. Man killed somebody, then somebody killed him, and the marshal shot 'em all and that was the end of it. But, look at it today: right here in Liberty we got hundreds of lawyers, thousands of 'em, as far as the eye can see: nothing but lawyers!

    Zerelda 'Zee' Cobb, later Zerelda 'Zee' James: Uncle Rufe, there are only TWO lawyers in Liberty.

    Major Rufus Cobb: Huh? Two? Is that all? Then they run around too much. Gol-dang it, I'm gonna write me an editorial about that.

    Major Rufus Cobb: [he goes out into the newspaper office] Roy!

    Roy: Yes, sir?

    Major Rufus Cobb: Take an editorial on lawyers.

    Roy: Liars?

    Major Rufus Cobb: That'll do. We'll begin easy.

    [he begins to dictate]

    Major Rufus Cobb: Paragraph: If we are ever to have law and order in the West, the first thing we gotta do is take out all the lawyers and shoot 'em down like dogs.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0031507/quotes
    Nuff said...

    Something about too much liberty vs. too little...hmmm. Some folks are not as enamored with unfettered liberty, it seems, as I believe you are.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    Holy ****, SVG, knock off that "civility" crap. You're going to ruin our image!!!

    My bad I forgot the cadre rules!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Entirely correct.

    Because: "to form a separate and independent nation of their own" typically means that "a government" is instituted by the citizens of the nation they desired to create. We, the USA, once had a government that they desired...mostly. Just cuz the government we have today is very far removed from the then desired government is besides the point. Our current government has separated itself from liberty and thus the citizenry.

    ...or:

    Nuff said...

    Something about too much liberty vs. too little...hmmm. Some folks are not as enamored with unfettered liberty, it seems, as I believe you are.
    The west founded by people escaping the rulers of the east now dying in statism.

    It's cool some want chains for themselves, why they have to force others to wear them too boggles my mind.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    The west founded by people escaping the rulers of the east now dying in statism.

    It's cool some want chains for themselves, why they have to force others to wear them too boggles my mind.
    Liberals are a unhappy lot...their unhappiness demands company and they will do anything to not be alone.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,011
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Liberals are a unhappy lot...their unhappiness demands company and they will do anything to not be alone.
    Your "liberals" are imaginary. All the liberals I know are quite happy. Why wouldn't we be? 401Ks doing well (despite the recent market turmoil), unemployment down (even though most of my friend are either retired or close to it), gas is cheap, no kids or grand kids getting killed in made up wars, Cuba opening up for possible vacation opportunities, my gay friends/relatives can get married, pot legalization expanding, Trump leading the GOTP polls. Heck, life is good!

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154
    There are the progressive and liberal values illustrated for you. Nothing beyond their own nose.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,011
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    There are the progressive and liberal values illustrated for you. Nothing beyond their own nose.
    I thought someone said we demanded company. Pride in the progress our country has made is a good thing. Contentment with our lives is a good thing. I get the feeling that unless bad things are happening to our country, GOTP types aren't happy. "Glass half empty" kind of folks.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154
    "GOTP" types (broadbrush much?) are your fellow progressives.

    There is a fine set of cultural guides, many written as statutes, allow US to learn to live well under them before you and your ilk write more GD laws - the essence of rank (means stinking) progressivism. A pox on all y'alls' houses.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  24. #24
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    Your "liberals" are imaginary. All the liberals I know are quite happy. Why wouldn't we be? 401Ks doing well (despite the recent market turmoil), unemployment down (even though most of my friend are either retired or close to it), gas is cheap, no kids or grand kids getting killed in made up wars, Cuba opening up for possible vacation opportunities, my gay friends/relatives can get married, pot legalization expanding, Trump leading the GOTP polls. Heck, life is good!
    Less unhappy of the lot...OK.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    Holy ****, SVG, knock off that "civility" crap. You're going to ruin our image!!!
    http://www.eye95.com/

    Go here for civil conversations hehehehe.

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •