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Thread: Article by self defense expert: Open Carry Opens Opportunity for Problems

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    Article by self defense expert: Open Carry Opens Opportunity for Problems

    Open Carry Opens Opportunity for Problems

    "I often get asked by students and clients my opinion on open carrying of a firearm in Alabama, and my responses are usually the same, “Expect to get a negative response from some, expect to get asked to leave some places of business, and expect the police to show up at some point”. And then I ask them three questions, “What is the advantage of open carry? What is your firearms training background? How many of hours of weapon retention techniques have you practiced”?"

    The rest of the article here:

    http://www.selfdefensesolutions.net/...-for-problems/

    "you'll get shot first" is his biggest complaint, along with you'll get profiled, kicked out of restaurants and get the police called on you (paraphrasing all).

    He lives in Hsv. AL, which is an OC state and has been for decades.

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Article by self defense expert: Open Carry Opens Opportunity for Problems

    So FTG-05 - do you agree with his suggestion? - if you OC get a badge thingy, dress up like some kind of cop in casual attire, have your gun & holster Very Visible, and go to the range more than 3 times a year?

    From my limited time OCing in Southern states I have not experienced any situation where I felt any of these were necessary, other than to use SA and practice mental and physical training.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by HPmatt; 08-30-2015 at 02:48 PM.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    Open Carry Opens Opportunity for Problems

    "I often get asked by students and clients my opinion on open carrying of a firearm in Alabama, and my responses are usually the same, “Expect to get a negative response from some, expect to get asked to leave some places of business, and expect the police to show up at some point”. And then I ask them three questions, “What is the advantage of open carry? What is your firearms training background? How many of hours of weapon retention techniques have you practiced”?"

    The rest of the article here:

    http://www.selfdefensesolutions.net/...-for-problems/

    "you'll get shot first" is his biggest complaint, along with you'll get profiled, kicked out of restaurants and get the police called on you (paraphrasing all).

    He lives in Hsv. AL, which is an OC state and has been for decades.
    The author of that very biased piece seems to think he is more elite, more entitled to OC the us mere commoners.

    I'd fix the quote above thus:
    Expect to rarely get a negative response from some, expect seldom to get asked to leave some places of business, and expect the police to almost never show up at some point”.

    “What is the advantage of open carry?' - Let me count the ways.......Best he sit down and take notes. We've been there and done that as have many good instructors who post here.

    What is your firearms training background?" Training is good, more training is better; however, how many hours of training and what level of proficiency would he recommend to exercise a legal right and experience FREEDOM while educating newbies.?

    Actually there is a benefit to understanding his position - armed with that info, we can recommend other more enlightened instructors
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    The comparative more elite is disturbing. Now we have the demos, the elite and the more elite. So is more enlightened also disturbing.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Namaste
    Last edited by Nightmare; 08-30-2015 at 04:53 PM.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    he is a professional entity trained and paid to stick his body in front of his clients to protect them against the client's life time of perils and pickles they have gotten themselves into...someone who is paid vast amounts of money to protect someone of import...when he fails (and he will of course) and his client is injured or ends up deceased it will, of course, be someone else's fault...as he professes and unequivocally knows he is trained in his craft to the n'th degree.

    i, am a nobody, the only fool i am concerned about protecting is myself and my loved ones...period! My SA training tells me to keep my distance as i am not paid to get up front and personal with any BG to the point where someone is trying to get my firearm out of my holster.

    trained, eh, i am, in my humble and honest opinion, trained appropriately and sufficiently to protect the fool i am concerned about and i am guarding. I won't know if i need further training until i find myself in a situation i didn't mentally prepare for...
    let's see...hiding behind something and they have a mortar...yepper can say i haven't trained for that.

    shades of marathon man ~ getting tied in a chair and a dentist comes in and wants me to divulge classified information...yepper have truly considered that situation mulled it over and over, reaching the conclusion i would sincerely lie about anything the BG wants to know and if that didn't work...i guess would learn to gum my food till i die.

    bottom line, the ego inflated bloke has been given far more time and lent too much credibility on this forum than he is worth...he is a well paid fool, paid to take a bullet for his high priced client. we are providing advertising to their cause and not getting any credit or $$ for it.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HPmatt View Post
    So FTG-05 - do you agree with his suggestion? - if you OC get a badge thingy, dress up like some kind of cop in casual attire, have your gun & holster Very Visible, and go to the range more than 3 times a year?

    From my limited time OCing in Southern states I have not experienced any situation where I felt any of these were necessary, other than to use SA and practice mental and physical training.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    No, not a bit. He's a friend of a friend kind of thing. There was a thread over on City Data about firearms training and I was going to post this guy's page, but then saw the anti-OC article (get shot first, OCs but with a badge, must be super trained, blah,blah, blah). Decided to not spread "his" word to anyone else (well, except for this forum).

    It's just too bad some people can't talk about self defense without interjecting their business interests into it - instead of educating, they are just advertising.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The author of that very biased piece seems to think he is more elite, more entitled to OC the us mere commoners.
    <snip>
    I think you understood his musings too well. He's funny.

    I must have a different copy of the constitution than he does ... his must have some gibberish about training needed to exercise the RBKA contained in his copy...mine is devoid of such clauses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    Open Carry Opens Opportunity for Problems

    "I often get asked by students and clients my opinion on open carrying of a firearm in Alabama, and my responses are usually the same, “Expect to get a negative response from some, expect to get asked to leave some places of business, and expect the police to show up at some point”. And then I ask them three questions, “What is the advantage of open carry? What is your firearms training background? How many of hours of weapon retention techniques have you practiced”?"

    The rest of the article here:

    http://www.selfdefensesolutions.net/...-for-problems/

    "you'll get shot first" is his biggest complaint, along with you'll get profiled, kicked out of restaurants and get the police called on you (paraphrasing all).

    He lives in Hsv. AL, which is an OC state and has been for decades.
    I do not agree with everything he wrote but he does bring up some good suggestions one being gun retention. It is easy to take a gun from someone if they are not paying attention. Hell even cops with their level 3 holsters have had their firearms taken away so a civilian with a level 1 holster is a much easier target.

    This guy had his firearm concealed and he was lost when it came to gun retention. He is quite fortunate he did not get shot with his own gun. It seems everyone believes they can stop someone from taking their gun until they get into a fight and find out the hard way they were wrong.


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Knife View Post
    I do not agree with everything he wrote but he does bring up some good suggestions one being gun retention. It is easy to take a gun from someone if they are not paying attention. Hell even cops with their level 3 holsters have had their firearms taken away so a civilian with a level 1 holster is a much easier target.

    This guy had his firearm concealed and he was lost when it came to gun retention. He is quite fortunate he did not get shot with his own gun. It seems everyone believes they can stop someone from taking their gun until they get into a fight and find out the hard way they were wrong.
    --video link snipped--
    That story and video have been well vented elsewhere on this forum - has been previously reported and does not need to be reopened here.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ght=video+grab

    Still we bid you welcome to OCDO and hope that you will become an active participant.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Knife View Post
    I do not agree with everything he wrote but he does bring up some good suggestions one being gun retention. It is easy to take a gun from someone if they are not paying attention. Hell even cops with their level 3 holsters have had their firearms taken away so a civilian with a level 1 holster is a much easier target.

    This guy had his firearm concealed and he was lost when it came to gun retention. He is quite fortunate he did not get shot with his own gun. It seems everyone believes they can stop someone from taking their gun until they get into a fight and find out the hard way they were wrong.

    I think I have said this on here before, your cover garment acts as a level of retention and it did here. granted I wouldn't call what he was doing concealing, because you could see he had a gun. so he's lucky. if he were OCing, well.... people claim to have such good situational awareness that they somehow have a 360 degree view of their persons at all times. The article drives a good argument, for the most part. His argument for weapon retention training is valid when it comes to OC. taking a 1 or 2 day course in weapon retention, and nothing but weapon retention, is not enough. that's more like a intro course to the subject. even then, if you don't practice your skills after taking a course, you wasted your time. Sure, OC all you want, realize it comes with a potential deadly risk.

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    It's baaack!
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    The guy is selling a product and is hoping you buy it.
    Certified Personal Protection Specialist in Executive Protection...
    I think diploma mills pump out those certificates by the thousands. I think I have a few I use as shelf paper.
    Last edited by color of law; 09-06-2015 at 11:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    It's baaack!
    nah, im usually here, mostly for entertainment purposes though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by g21sfpistol View Post
    nah, im usually here, mostly for entertainment purposes though.
    Well....what a coincidence.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g21sfpistol View Post
    nah, im usually here, mostly for entertainment purposes though.
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Well....what a coincidence.


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    boy grape, arnt you a moderator? i would expect a better attitude out of you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by g21sfpistol View Post
    boy grape, arnt you a moderator? i would expect a better attitude out of you.
    boi, i thought it was exemplary...your point?

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by g21sfpistol View Post
    nah, im usually here, mostly for entertainment purposes though.
    Hmm..I'm thinking that nightmare was pointing to the video "IT" being back.

    Remember that 20/20 piece on students with guns...they put guys in there with the worst type of clothing -- it was comical.

    All (most/many/some) those poor kids got simulatedly killed on that 20/20 segment. Funny. Should have done that with shotguns and the result would have been just the opposite?

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    Quote Originally Posted by g21sfpistol View Post
    boy grape, arnt you a moderator? i would expect a better attitude out of you.
    [img]http://www.communityspark.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/problem_forum_moderators.jpg[img]

    What I think moderators do all day .... I have no freaking idea of course ... and forgot how to add pics too !

    http://www.communityspark.com/wp-con...moderators.jpg
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-06-2015 at 04:40 PM. Reason: I'm an idiot today

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g21sfpistol View Post
    boy grape, arnt you a moderator? i would expect a better attitude out of you.
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    boi, i thought it was exemplary...your point?

    ipse
    Believe he has a burr under his saddle.

    He should know full well of the humor and jest so obviously made.

    What he expects or wants as a Moderator is hardly the point. If he wants me to get serious, all he has to do is continue the attacks - I will oblige.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Believe he has a burr under his saddle.

    He should know full well of the humor and jest so obviously made.

    What he expects or wants as a Moderator is hardly the point. If he wants me to get serious, all he has to do is continue the attacks - I will oblige.
    uh, I don't think so. And even I saw it as an insult...and I have a helleva sense of humor, Don't I private ?!

    English is a difficult language. Wish we communicated in French that only has ~60,000 words (and of that, 59,000 words have the exact same meaning: "I surrender"). [and i don't care if the offends the french ~ i've worked with frenchmen for years ~ i earned the right~and I'm french, so there!]
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-07-2015 at 01:40 AM.

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    uh, I don't think so. And even I saw it as an insult...and I have a helleva sense of humor, Don't I private ?!

    English is a difficult language. Wish we communicated in French that only has ~60,000 words (and of that, 59,000 words have the exact same meaning: "I surrender"). [and i don't care if the offends the french ~ i've worked with frenchmen for years ~ i earned the right~and I'm french, so there!]
    "I surrender"

    I remember seeing a poster in Vancouver Wa. at a gun shop back in the early 90's with this same message. It had a group of French soldiers from WWII with their hands above their heads holding onto rifles as they were surrendering to the Germans. The poster was a fake advertisement for used military french rifles that said, "Once dropped, never fired". Very funny!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    "I surrender"

    I remember seeing a poster in Vancouver Wa. at a gun shop back in the early 90's with this same message. It had a group of French soldiers from WWII with their hands above their heads holding onto rifles as they were surrendering to the Germans. The poster was a fake advertisement for used military french rifles that said, "Once dropped, never fired". Very funny!
    Indeed - one's intent, be it tongue-in-cheek or a serious attack, should effect how it is perceived by responsible parties.

    All of that said, it doesn't hurt to have both kid gloves and a hammer in your kit bag
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Every single time that I hear someone described as a "self-defense expert", "firearms expert", or just about any other sort of expert, I am reminded of what a First Sergeant told me many years ago:

    An "ex" is a has-been and a spurt is a drip under pressure. So, an expert is a has-been drip under pressure!
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    He makes some valid points. For example, you SHOULD train in retention techniques. You should always be training in general (of course, you should never have a required level of training to carry). For concealed carry, my general rule of thumb is that if you can't defend yourself without a weapon, you should probably reconsider carrying a weapon. With that said, open carry is a bit different, as the sight of the gun alone is often deterrent enough to help you avoid danger. No one in their right mind is going to engage in a conflict with you up close if they can see you carrying (the key being "in their right mind"). Overall though, I agree with the general consensus that this guy is a tool. If you live in an open carry state, feel free to do it.

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