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Thread: Some officers may think you support killing them

  1. #1
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    Some officers may think you support killing them

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/09/02.../?intcmp=hpbt3

    "We're sitting ducks," he said. "We're in these uniforms, brightly colored cars and there's nothing we can do. And the vast majority supports this loud vocal minority."


    I'll tell ya what; I've been in similar situations in the military--with locals hating the US military. And you really cannot hide the fact that you were in the military (haircuts, age, etc.). I've been attacked simply for being a serviceman walking about minding my own business. And I lived off base so I did not have a choice of just staying on base. Nor a choice of saying "hey boss, I'm giving you my two weeks notice". It did not affect my behavior at all really .. I was young and invincible !

    But it appears as if folks are deciding not to be cops anymore for what ever reason. What ever job instead that they take, its likely to have a high occupational death rate than being a cop. So a few "assassinations" (or whatever you want to call them) would not change my decision but people can make up their own minds.

    If the cop who said the quote above really believes what he said and he stays a cop? Then that's goofy IMO.
    But this guy clearly has a us v. them mentality that is not based on reality.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 09-03-2015 at 05:33 AM. Reason: changed title

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Changing the title of this thread:

    From: "Do you support the unprovoked killing of cops? Some cops may think so.. "

    To: "Some officers may think you support killing them"
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 09-03-2015 at 05:32 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Change the thread title to reflect the sentiment in the linked story.

    "Some cops do not understand/accept why they are being targeted."

    The proposed title is right there in the story.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Looks like this thread is now being focused on "what should the title of this thread be".

    And beeeeegin.

  5. #5
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Less cops is a good thing.

    A war has been started, the people didn't start it.

    I am not advocating killing cops unprovoked. Just observing history repeating itself, especially since the statist refuse to learn from it.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    The article sounds like whining, less cops because they hired less cops. Almost any dept have numbers of 100 to 1 applicants for a police job. Even when the pay was poor, and police were held more accountable.

    I am really tired of the whining, this whining from any other private sector would get the employee fired. The lack of respect for the customer would get the employee fired. No hearings, no go fund me pages, out the door, looking in on the outside. In most cases no union attorney.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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  7. #7
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    There are two angles to this story.

    No sensible person wants to see police abusing the citizens' rights.

    At the same time, sensible persons want to see law and order maintained.

    Many of us here are quite happy that we get to run away from danger, protecting ourselves and our own loved ones because there are those who train professionally to deal with the worst in society. At one time I considered a career as a peace officer. The older I get and the more I learn, the happier I am I didn't make--what for me--would have been a huge mistake. I don't want to deal with the scum of society, nor have to inform decent people when that scum (or just momentary mistakes) means someone they love won't be coming home. I don't want to be the guy who has to see the damage inflicted on innocent children by physically abusive parents or boyfriends, by pedophiles, or by the gross neglect of parents who care infinitely more about their next drug fix than they do about the welfare of their own flesh and blood.

    Less graphic, but every bit as important to me, I want someone to provide some incentive not to blow through my kid's 20 mph school zone at 45. I want someone to check out the strange car in the neighborhood at odd hours.

    What has me most troubled about the entire topic at hand is the role of the media and the way they are shaping misguided anger.

    How often do we really see widespread attention to the true cases of egregious behavior from bad cops, compared to an over-abundance of attention paid to cases where the cop was likely justified?

    If someone starts physically pounding on WW, I expect he is going to defend himself including with deadly force if needed. Whatever "mistakes" he may have made that gave some scum a "reason" to take offense or the opportunity to assault him, once someone starts assaulting WalkingWolf I fully expect he will defend himself. I expect every cop will do the same. I expect George Zimmerman will do likewise. But these seem to be the cases that have the inner city folks and professional victims up in arms and deciding to execute cops.

    Where is the widespread media attention to cases of OCers being hassled without any legal cause? Or of police officers violating privacy and travel rights with "border checks" and demands for papers 200 miles from the nearest border? Where is the outrage at the "good" cops who didn't out their colleague once the evidence makes clear that he really was very bad?

    As seems usual these days, the media is misdirecting and people are getting angry at the wrong incidents. It also seems as if certain segments of society simply do not want any police at all. Perhaps the solution is encourage those segments to move to various free-for-all zones where they can live free of all police intervention.

    Maybe, we need to not allow white officers to work in predominantly minority neighborhoods. Perhaps that removes both the perception and any reality of cross cultural misunderstandings creating needless conflict.

    None of us likes to be told what we are doing has to stop. Nobody likes paying a speeding ticket or being required to account for himself because someone else thinks something might be amiss. But I do generally appreciate having police officers, and a criminal justice system. They are far from perfect, but I think even in their current state they are far better than having nothing.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Less cops is a good thing.

    A war has been started, the people didn't start it.

    I am not advocating killing cops unprovoked. Just observing history repeating itself, especially since the statist refuse to learn from it.
    And just how much "provocation" does it take before you do "advocate" such violence? I find your attitude deeply troubling, at least.

    The war in the inner city has never really ended. And in most cases, it isn't police officers who start problems. Usually it is violent, criminal thugs.

    Bear in mind that for the last 40 years, most inner cities have been subject to local laws and ordinances passed by government officials of the same race and background as the residents of those cities. Most federal laws that some inner cities residents find offensive--such as drug laws--were promoted by members of their own community as well. The laws may be misguided or wrong. But they are not a result of some outside entity trying to keep others down.

    Police abusing rights happens. I see far fewer riots starting over that than I do from what started as criminal thugs getting themselves dead by attacking armed men who are not going to be easily victimized.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The thread title was changed to focus on what some officers think in order that we be directed away from whether or not we advocate violence against LEOs, which is totally against OCDO philosophy and rules.

    I sense that there may be some attempt to advocate or justify that which is not allowed. Such would be a major mistake.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    And just how much "provocation" does it take before you do "advocate" such violence? I find your attitude deeply troubling, at least.

    The war in the inner city has never really ended. And in most cases, it isn't police officers who start problems. Usually it is violent, criminal thugs.

    Bear in mind that for the last 40 years, most inner cities have been subject to local laws and ordinances passed by government officials of the same race and background as the residents of those cities. Most federal laws that some inner cities residents find offensive--such as drug laws--were promoted by members of their own community as well. The laws may be misguided or wrong. But they are not a result of some outside entity trying to keep others down.

    Police abusing rights happens. I see far fewer riots starting over that than I do from what started as criminal thugs getting themselves dead by attacking armed men who are not going to be easily victimized.

    Charles
    pipper, your use of the word 'provocation' is disingenuous to SVG should be considered misleading to this forum's membership but it is your forte of late.

    how much...Indiana 35-41-3-2 (http://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2015/ic/titles/035/) section 2 (i) - (k) outlines quite decisively Hoosier citizens definition of 'reasonable' quite nicely. are the nice LEs & their benefactors happy about the law, heavens no, but i truly file their consternation under "W" !!

    and you have a cite, per forum policy, for your statement about inner city officials are made up of the same race and background as the residents...let's see just something off the top of my head...ferguson's government and police force, shall i do more of your research ?

    ipse
    ipse
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Those pesky redcoats were just doing their jobs.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    pipper, your use of the word 'provocation' is disingenuous to SVG should be considered misleading to this forum's membership but it is your forte of late.

    how much...Indiana 35-41-3-2 (http://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2015/ic/titles/035/) section 2 (i) - (k) outlines quite decisively Hoosier citizens definition of 'reasonable' quite nicely. are the nice LEs & their benefactors happy about the law, heavens no, but i truly file their consternation under "W" !!

    and you have a cite, per forum policy, for your statement about inner city officials are made up of the same race and background as the residents...let's see just something off the top of my head...ferguson's government and police force, shall i do more of your research ?

    ipse
    ipse
    +1

    Much of the inner city problems have been aggravated by the state, with its many wars against its people.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  13. #13
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    pipper, your use of the word 'provocation' is disingenuous to SVG should be considered misleading to this forum's membership but it is your forte of late.

    how much...Indiana 35-41-3-2 (http://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2015/ic/titles/035/) section 2 (i) - (k) outlines quite decisively Hoosier citizens definition of 'reasonable' quite nicely. are the nice LEs & their benefactors happy about the law, heavens no, but i truly file their consternation under "W" !!

    and you have a cite, per forum policy, for your statement about inner city officials are made up of the same race and background as the residents...let's see just something off the top of my head...ferguson's government and police force, shall i do more of your research ?

    ipse
    ipse
    Another +1
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Those pesky redcoats were just doing their jobs.
    Thing is this is not a forum on the American Revolution and/or the taking up of arms against the government.

    Fact of the matter is we have rules against just that. So those "pesky redcoats" are herewith drummed off the field of OCDO to another place and time.

    On topic if you please, sirs.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Thing is this is not a forum on the American Revolution and/or the taking up of arms against the government.

    Fact of the matter is we have rules against just that. So those "pesky redcoats" are herewith drummed off the field of OCDO to another place and time.

    On topic if you please, sirs.
    Oh yes but those redcoats thought the violence against them was unprovoked, and unjustified.

    Like I stated before, I am simply making observations on history is repeating itself. No matter what others may allege in their poor attempts at demonization.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Much of the inner city problems have been aggravated by the state, with its many wars against its people.
    More puerile anarchist drivel. It looks a lot like another thinly veiled attempt to justify hatred for, and a desire for violence against police officers.

    What "wars" against the people? Laws against public intoxication? Or against recreational drug use? Sure because not being able to smoke dope or shoot up heroin is worth killing cops over.

    The most damaging war against the inner city has been the un-acknowledged war against the family, god/religion, and self-reliance waged with the tools of the dole: an endless supply of welfare, replacing fathers with welfare checks essentially encouraging women to have babies out-of-wedlock, and schools that don't require decent behavior or learning but instead instill a sense of failure, victim-hood, and false self-esteem lest anyone be offended.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  17. #17
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    More puerile anarchist drivel. It looks a lot like another thinly veiled attempt to justify hatred for, and a desire for violence against police officers.

    What "wars" against the people? Laws against public intoxication? Or against recreational drug use? Sure because not being able to smoke dope or shoot up heroin is worth killing cops over.

    The most damaging war against the inner city has been the un-acknowledged war against the family, god/religion, and self-reliance waged with the tools of the dole: an endless supply of welfare, replacing fathers with welfare checks essentially encouraging women to have babies out-of-wedlock, and schools that don't require decent behavior or learning but instead instill a sense of failure, victim-hood, and false self-esteem lest anyone be offended.

    Charles
    Your drivel is becoming tired. Not all anti-statists are anarchists. Either you're attacking anarchists or you're attacking he whom you quoted. Either way, isn't there a rule against that or something?
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Your drivel is becoming tired. Not all anti-statists are anarchists. Either you're attacking anarchists or you're attacking he whom you quoted. Either way, isn't there a rule against that or something?
    I'm attacking the thinly veiled attempts to justify or even encourage violence against police officers. That such sentiments seem to come most often from anarchists is entirely beyond my control.

    I would hope nobody who is mature enough to carry a gun in public needs to be reminded of the need for a group that advocates for pushing social boundaries--even entirely legally--involving firearms to strictly avoid any hint that advocate for or approve of any illegal violent conduct.

    Deadly force is justified to protect innocent life and limb from imminent harm. Deadly force is not justified to retaliate against minor slights, disagreements with the prevailing social/political/legal order, nor with issue against authority in general.

    Those on this thread seem to have little interest or ability to stay on topic. I'll leave you to your devices, having made clear I do not associate myself with any who justify illegal violence.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Many officers seem to only care about revenue generation and harassment of LAC.

    The only reason that "some" officers believe that they are the ones being hunted is to get a headline, a sound bite, and an excuse to violate our rights even more, IMO.

    I have met office friendly once in a while and his opposite way too often. What bothers be is the articles and headlines about good officers going to jail, losing jobs, suffering harassment, and the like for simply doing the most justice things they can do. They refused to allow officer A. Clown to assault & batter folks on the stree, they refused to allow officer P. Vert to collect (for personal enjoyment) pictures of underage individuals who are naked, being sexually abused, raped, etc they also stopped same officer(s) from preforming depicted acts themselves, and the list goes on. The officers who stop officers A. Clown, P. Vert, & friends are the ones being punished.

    What I believe is happening is that the P Verts and A Clowns on the force are scared because they are the ones that some individuals see, in their mind's eye, when they see anyone in the blue/black costume.

    Not condoning the random killing of officers but rather advocating that the courts and system stop protecting A Clowns and P Verts.

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    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 09-04-2015 at 08:27 AM.
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    There is a huge disconnect between public service employees and the public. This is brought on, IMO, by the whole covering for the few bad, the running off the job of those that will speak out, and prevent crime committed by other public servants. This does not in any way excuse the violence against officers, but it does bring about apathy by citizens who have suffered, or friends, or family at the hands of these rouge officers.

    Then there are the problems caused by the justice system that refuses to bring them to justice. It is not just criminal officers that are the problem, incompetent officers with there stupid actions bring about rioting, and misery by their incompetence. Darren Wilson was a classic case of an incompetent officer, yet the rank and file screamed and threw tantrums when the obvious was pointed out. When I was still working officers wanted these officers OFF the force, they didn't cover for them, they were a danger to us.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Your drivel is becoming tired. Not all anti-statists are anarchists. Either you're attacking anarchists or you're attacking he whom you quoted. Either way, isn't there a rule against that or something?
    LOL...+1 yet there is a double standard when it comes to some.

    Notice he then lists problems aggravated by the state such as welfare.......
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    War on drugs is a war on people it has been a huge failure leading to massive amounts of loss of life and violence in the US and around the world.

    It is very dishonest to make a false claim that its about killing cops cause you can't smoke a joint.

    Prohibition always causes more problems then the problem it was supposed to fix, alcohol prohibition which was constitutionally ratified (unlike the unconstitutional drug war) proved that beyond a doubt.

    The state will always need its enforcers to enforce tyranny, the people will always take their anger out on these enforcers first.

    The so called Boston Massacre is a perfect example. History repeating itself.

    Its also a hilariously false allegation to tie the violence to anarchist/antistatist seems to me most the violence are done by those who want the state to come save them even harder......lol.....they don't know what they are asking for.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 09-04-2015 at 10:11 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    It's sad that every single issue is used as a tool of division by the media.
    For the record it is possible to condemn both the unprovoked murder of cops AND the murder of unarmed citizens by cops.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    It's sad that every single issue is used as a tool of division by the media.
    For the record it is possible to condemn both the unprovoked murder of cops AND the murder of unarmed citizens by cops.
    Well put. You've earned another feather.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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