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Thread: conceal carry in church?

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    conceal carry in church?

    i know this is a open carry forum but i haven't been able to find anything recent online about if i can carry concealed in a church. i have been preaching a little over 4 years and i am ordained, i do not pastor any church at the moment, i get appointments to preach whenever i can. i have been lately going to baptists and methodist churches but will go to any that will let me preach. i have tried to look online but only found older posts on this, if anyone knows anything recent please let me know. thanks for any help.

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    Nothing against it in this state like there are in others.

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    Will you tell us faithful something about your credal denomination and its ordination protocol? I am a Lutheran, which requires a postgraduate degree for ordination even as deacon.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post


    There was such a prohibition in the original "concealed carry law" in 1996. That was removed two or three years later.
    Interesting. I never knew that the original wording prohibited carry in churches. I often still hear the "old timers" talk about how carry in a church is illegal. It makes sense to me know of why they think this. It pays to keep abreast of changing laws....
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    We haven't heard from you in a long time, boomer92266. Good to have you back. Churches are treated just like any other private property. They can post signs and prohibit guns, either concealed or openly carried, or they can allow them. It is their choice. There is no specific, blanket prohibition in churches.

    There was such a prohibition in the original "concealed carry law" in 1996. That was removed two or three years later. Changes like this are the source of a lot of the misinformation and misunderstanding of the law. It is hard to keep up with the changes made every year.
    good to be back gutshot, and nightmare i was raised a baptist and God called me to preach. i have been preaching for a little over 4 years, after God called me i don't say i'm a baptist now. i say i am only a christain, i was ordained by a non denominational church. i will go where God leads me, since there have been no signs so far at the churches i've been to, i will conceal carry. i prayed on this a lot and feel that it's ok to carry and as my instructor told me about most places. he said do the don't ask, don't tell policy. if they don't ask - don't tell, they will never know unless you do. thanks for the help

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Churches are treated just like any other private property. They can post signs and prohibit guns, either concealed or openly carried, or they can allow them. It is their choice. There is no specific, blanket prohibition in churches. .
    I was going to be asking something similar today. What if the church also has a parochial school on property?
    Last edited by Flounder; 09-09-2015 at 08:59 AM.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Hey GUTSHOT, I am asking if that is a government sanctioned school, or a private one. I know in Our state only a government sanctioned school is recognized. private schools are treated like a private business

    but to the OP. I am not a preacher. but the only way I carry is in the open. granted if I wear a suit (about 50/50), it is partially CC. but if a church tells me to leave. which is what they do if I can't carry there. then I know that they are NOT following the words of Jesus the Crist. he told us to be armed for self defense

    I will dust off my feet and know them for what they are
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    Hey GUTSHOT, I am asking if that is a government sanctioned school, or a private one. I know in Our state only a government sanctioned school is recognized. private schools are treated like a private business

    but to the OP. I am not a preacher. but the only way I carry is in the open. granted if I wear a suit (about 50/50), it is partially CC. but if a church tells me to leave. which is what they do if I can't carry there. then I know that they are NOT following the words of Jesus the Crist. he told us to be armed for self defense

    I will dust off my feet and know them for what they are
    minor clarification papa...that is a 'school' recognized by a board of education per se.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    minor clarification papa...that is a 'school' recognized by a board of education per se.

    ipse
    Hence the words "government sanctioned"
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  10. #10
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I tried to make my response as complete as possible, maybe I included too much information. Here it is again, "It doesn't matter whether it is a public or private school".

    The statute is KRS 527.070. Here is subsection (1) of it:
    A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a weapon on school property when heknowingly deposits, possesses, or carries, whether openly or concealed, forpurposes other than instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, or thepurposes permitted in subsection (3) of this section, any firearm or other deadlyweapon, destructive device, or booby trap device in any public or private schoolbuilding or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field, or any other property owned, used, or operated by any board of education, school, board of trustees, regents, or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. The provisions of this section shall not apply to institutions of postsecondary or higher education.
    so does that include a daycare, vacation bible school, or just bible school, or a home school (not sure what the laws are in KY for home school). seems like I asked the right question

    but you guys seem to miss the main point of my post. Jesus told us to be armed
    Last edited by papa bear; 09-10-2015 at 05:20 AM.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    so does that include a daycare, vacation bible school, or just bible school, or a home school (not sure what the laws are in KY for home school). seems like I asked the right question

    but you guys seem to miss the main point of my post. Jesus told us to be armed
    So when have you and your followers stopped the state from inserting themselves into the ecclesiastical province.
    Example: The state and feds sticking their nose in the sanctity of marriage.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    "I was told to preach." "I was told to be armed." "I was told to change my religion."..... So much for free will. 👰
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    "I was told to preach." "I was told to be armed." "I was told to change my religion."..... So much for free will. 👰
    I'm confused. You was told to do whatever. Doing what you are told is not free will. Free will is following your conscience. Your conscience can take you down the right road or down the wrong road.

    I'm just say'n.....

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    I'm confused. You was told to do whatever. Doing what you are told is not free will. Free will is following your conscience. Your conscience can take you down the right road or down the wrong road.

    I'm just say'n.....
    That was the point of my jab. If (insert the deity of your choice) tells you to do something and you do it, that's not free will to me. But I was expressing a thought and have no desire to hijack this thread.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boomer92266 View Post
    ... after God called me i don't say i'm a baptist now. i say i am only a christain, i was ordained by a non denominational church. i will go where God leads me ...
    Kudos sir. May God bless you as you serve Him.
    Be active.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Good advice. I am now dusting off my feet and leaving this thread, because I believe that I am beginning to know you for what you are.
    THANKS GUTSHOT, I love you too. I think.it is very important to ask.question so.we can understand
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    I'm confused. You was told to do whatever. Doing what you are told is not free will. Free will is following your conscience. Your conscience can take you down the right road or down the wrong road.
    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    That was the point of my jab. If (insert the deity of your choice) tells you to do something and you do it, that's not free will to me. But I was expressing a thought and have no desire to hijack this thread.
    So long as a person has the ability to refuse to do what someone (or some deity) tells him to do, then he continues to have free will. Suggestions, even commandments, do not of themselves negate freewill, even if a person chooses to heed them. A gun to the head is a different story.

    As an example: Hey "color of law" and "self preservation", continue to read and post to OCDO. Continue to OC a firearm for self defense. I command you to eat dinner tonight.

    Now, there is a pretty good chance you are going to do at least a couple of the things I just told you to do. Does that evince any lack of free will on your part?

    What if someone you highly respected and loved suggested you should do something that would be very good for you, bring you happiness, or protect you from danger; and you chose to follow her counsel. Lack of free will? Does that change if she says "Shut up and dance with me" rather than merely suggesting you might enjoy a some time together on the dance floor?

    It is a shame when someone lets hostility to--or ignorance of--religious beliefs and traditions lead to claims about loss of free will or otherwise make pointless and off topic jabs. When a man of faith--and particularly a Christian or Jew--says that God has "called him", "told him", or "commanded him" to do something, it is generally well understood that the man retains his full freedom of choice, freewill, and agency to act as he desires. That a man of faith chooses to conform to God's will is not a loss of the man's free will, but an expression of faith and love to God's loving guidance.

    Off topic jabs against religious beliefs are no more becoming civil men on this forum than would be jabs against sexual orientation, race, or gender.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
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    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    So long as a person has the ability to refuse to do what someone (or some deity) tells him to do, then he continues to have free will. Suggestions, even commandments, do not of themselves negate freewill, even if a person chooses to heed them. A gun to the head is a different story.

    As an example: Hey "color of law" and "self preservation", continue to read and post to OCDO. Continue to OC a firearm for self defense. I command you to eat dinner tonight.

    Now, there is a pretty good chance you are going to do at least a couple of the things I just told you to do. Does that evince any lack of free will on your part?

    What if someone you highly respected and loved suggested you should do something that would be very good for you, bring you happiness, or protect you from danger; and you chose to follow her counsel. Lack of free will? Does that change if she says "Shut up and dance with me" rather than merely suggesting you might enjoy a some time together on the dance floor?

    It is a shame when someone lets hostility to--or ignorance of--religious beliefs and traditions lead to claims about loss of free will or otherwise make pointless and off topic jabs. When a man of faith--and particularly a Christian or Jew--says that God has "called him", "told him", or "commanded him" to do something, it is generally well understood that the man retains his full freedom of choice, freewill, and agency to act as he desires. That a man of faith chooses to conform to God's will is not a loss of the man's free will, but an expression of faith and love to God's loving guidance.

    Off topic jabs against religious beliefs are no more becoming civil men on this forum than would be jabs against sexual orientation, race, or gender.

    Charles
    well said, thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boomer92266 View Post
    well said, thank you.
    My pleasure. May God bless and prosper you and those in your care in your ministry.
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  20. #20
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    As I said earlier, I have no desire to hijack this thread. The OP asked a very good question. I learned a little more about the topic myself from others that have shared their expertise on the subject. I knew very well that you can't make even the slightest joke about religion without someone getting offended. Now, back to gun talk.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    As I said earlier, I have no desire to hijack this thread. The OP asked a very good question. I learned a little more about the topic myself from others that have shared their expertise on the subject. I knew very well that you can't make even the slightest joke about religion without someone getting offended. Now, back to gun talk.
    i was not offended by anything you said, we are all free to speak as we want or at least used to be. i was called to preach by God, but felt i did have a choice and believe i made the right one. on the carrying of the gun i prayed and felt again it was my choice and again believe i made the right one. i was not told to change my religion, i feel now that i am a preacher i should not be held to only baptist beliefs, we are all children of God and that is why i now state i am only a Christian. thanks

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    Until recently in my neck of the woods, arkansas, it was illegal to carry in a church. permit or no, church permission or no, illegal. Not the case any more, thank goodness. Now, churches have the right to choose whether they will allow CC or not, just like any private entity.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

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    Regular Member Liberty-or-Death's Avatar
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    Virginia code says carry in a place of worship during a regular worship service is not permitted "without good and sufficient reason". AG opinion says self-defense IS good and sufficient
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