Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 46

Thread: Firearms prohibited on Roanoke buses

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Roanoke, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    170

    Firearms prohibited on Roanoke buses

    Roanoke Times, "Gun incident on Valley Metro bus called 'isolated'":
    Valley Metro restricts guns on its buses. An advisory on its website called “Do’s and Don’ts” states that “firearms, flammable liquid, explosives, acid or other harmful material are not permitted onboard.”

    When asked for Valley Metro’s firearms policy, [Valley Metro assistant general manager Kevin] Price released a more narrow policy statement that said Valley Metro prohibits “openly carried” firearms on buses. A person with a permit to carry a concealed handgun can carry the handgun on a Valley Metro bus, Price said.

    The policy against visible weapons empowers bus drivers to “ask anyone not in compliance to not board or to leave the bus. In cases of noncompliance, the Bus Operator will then notify Valley Metro dispatch or dial 911 in case of emergency,” Price said.
    Rather strange that there are two different versions of their firearms policy, both of which seem to violate state preemption.

    ValleyMetro.com, "About Us":
    The Greater Roanoke Transit Company, known locally as Valley Metro, is a private, non-profit, public service organization wholly owned by the City of Roanoke.
    I'll be following up on this after the long weekend.

  2. #2
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    How ironic, and even somewhat amusing that it will be a quote published by the gun-hating Roanoke Times that brings about the removal of these policies. I bet they won't report that!!

    TFred

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Specifically, see Subtitle IV, Chapters 45 through 48.2 at http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title15.2/

    See http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/t...ction15.2-915/

    A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.
    Yes, preaching to the choir. Especially when I bring up

    C. In addition to any other relief provided, the court may award reasonable attorney fees, expenses, and court costs to any person, group, or entity that prevails in an action challenging (i) an ordinance, resolution, or motion as being in conflict with this section or (ii) an administrative action taken in bad faith as being in conflict with this section.
    whenever someone thinks of doing a quick fix via a letter to the appropriate administrator. Sure, it's being a Richard Cranium but then "they started it".

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  4. #4
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,732
    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    "private" and "owned by the City of Roanoke"? How does that work?
    It's called skulduggery.

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Specifically, see Subtitle IV, Chapters 45 through 48.2 at http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title15.2/

    See http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/t...ction15.2-915/



    Yes, preaching to the choir. Especially when I bring up



    whenever someone thinks of doing a quick fix via a letter to the appropriate administrator. Sure, it's being a Richard Cranium but then "they started it".

    stay safe.
    Is VCDL in hibranation or are they sitting this one out because CHPs are exempt?

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Is VCDL in hibranation or are they sitting this one out because CHPs are exempt?
    Where does it say CHPs are exempt? Must have missed it.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  7. #7
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    1,232
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Where does it say CHPs are exempt? Must have missed it.

    stay safe.
    In the quoted news story in the OP, about 4 paragraphs from the end

    Gun incident on Valley Metro bus called 'isolated'

    Quote Originally Posted by Roanoke Times Article

    Valley Metro restricts guns on its buses. An advisory on its website called “Do’s and Don’ts” states that “firearms, flammable liquid, explosives, acid or other harmful material are not permitted onboard.”

    When asked for Valley Metro’s firearms policy, Price [Valley Metro’s assistant manager] released a more narrow policy statement that said Valley Metro prohibits “openly carried” firearms on buses. A person with a permit to carry a concealed handgun can carry the handgun on a Valley Metro bus, Price said.
    JFT 96

    I'm sorry, did I offend you with my opinion?
    You should hear the ones I keep to myself.

    Porthos, Athos, and Aramis = peter nap, skidmark and Grapeshot, d'Artagnan = ?

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    In the quoted news story in the OP, about 4 paragraphs from the end

    Gun incident on Valley Metro bus called 'isolated'
    Yeah! A sound bite from some flack is going to trump written policy every time. And the price of that bridge has been reduced, but only for the holiday weekend.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  9. #9
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Is VCDL in hibranation or are they sitting this one out because CHPs are exempt?
    The OP, who apparently first discovered the infraction, said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tosta Dojen View Post
    I'll be following up on this after the long weekend.
    From my understanding, VCDL encourages the individual to take first crack at encouraging the local governments to fix things right. Then if they refuse, VCDL steps in.

    TFred

  10. #10
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    The OP, who apparently first discovered the infraction, said:



    From my understanding, VCDL encourages the individual to take first crack at encouraging the local governments to fix things right. Then if they refuse, VCDL steps in.

    TFred
    Yeah, I heard that too...right around the time I heard they represented ALL gun owners.

  11. #11
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    881
    Well y'all know the prohibition is illegal and void. I suggest y'all decide 20 of you (or more) will board as many busses as possible open carrying. Making sure you keep a copy of the relevant law on you. of course.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

    Conservative Broadcast || Google Plus profile

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Well y'all know the prohibition is illegal and void. I suggest y'all decide 20 of you (or more) will board as many busses as possible open carrying. Making sure you keep a copy of the relevant law on you. of course.
    We don't carry no steenkin' laws with us. Gives them a chance to back off and claim they were just detaining us.

    We do carry digital voice recorders and video cameras. (One is often none and two is one, etc.) I've even heard of folks following along just to record the fun and games.

    It's been a long time since there was a court hearing that involved demonstrating that a "private" entity owned exclusively by a city/county was in fact a part of local government. I forget what brand it was, but it resulted in a red sports car.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Roanoke, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Is VCDL in hibranation or are they sitting this one out because CHPs are exempt?
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    From my understanding, VCDL encourages the individual to take first crack at encouraging the local governments to fix things right. Then if they refuse, VCDL steps in.
    You know, I've heard that sentiment expressed on these forums, and I happen to agree, but I've never heard it from VCDL leadership. In fact, I've seen the latter folks admonish people for taking action on their own, because the dual efforts had the potential to interfere with one another.

    In any case, I've e-mailed Philip Van Cleave about the Valley Metro issue. He was not previously aware of it, but expressed an interest in getting it resolved.

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Yeah! A sound bite from some flack is going to trump written policy every time.
    I've inquired with Valley Metro requesting a copy of the written policy that Mr. Price supplied to the article's author, which evidently was the basis for his statement.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Roanoke, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Well y'all know the prohibition is illegal and void. I suggest y'all decide 20 of you (or more) will board as many busses as possible open carrying. Making sure you keep a copy of the relevant law on you. of course.
    It's funny, because I rode the bus last month while my car was in the shop. I wasn't refused boarding or asked to leave, despite the openly-carried pistol I had on me.

  15. #15
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,887
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Yeah, I heard that too...right around the time I heard they represented ALL gun owners.
    I've always found VCDL, at least in the form of Mr. Van Cleave, to be interested in ALL gun matters...?

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    634

    Just curious…,

    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Well y'all know the prohibition is illegal and void. I suggest y'all decide 20 of you (or more) will board as many busses as possible open carrying. Making sure you keep a copy of the relevant law on you. of course.
    why is it that we would be "making sure that (we) keep a copy of the relevant law on (us)"?

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29:11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

  17. #17
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    881
    Quote Originally Posted by sidestreet View Post
    why is it that we would be "making sure that (we) keep a copy of the relevant law on (us)"?

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29:11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.
    because the ignoramuses we have to deal with don't know it :P
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

    Conservative Broadcast || Google Plus profile

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    because the ignoramuses we have to deal with don't know it :P
    The place for them to learn the is in the courtroom when the judge says that a reasonable person in their position ought to have known what the law was. Usually stated just before denying a petition for protection under qualified immunity.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Northern Piedmont-Culpeper
    Posts
    176
    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    I've always found VCDL, at least in the form of Mr. Van Cleave, to be interested in ALL gun matters...?
    Hold on, Hold on.........................................

    OK. I got my popcorn and am settled into my Lazy-boy. Proceed with the show. Yee-Haw!
    "Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by scooter348 View Post
    Hold on, Hold on.........................................

    OK. I got my popcorn and am settled into my Lazy-boy. Proceed with the show. Yee-Haw!
    Rule # Whatever.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,614
    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    I've always found VCDL, at least in the form of Mr. Van Cleave, to be interested in ALL gun matters...?
    Quote Originally Posted by scooter348 View Post
    Hold on, Hold on.........................................
    OK. I got my popcorn and am settled into my Lazy-boy. Proceed with the show. Yee-Haw!
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Rule # Whatever. stay safe.
    Two (2) rules apply here:

    (9) HATE IS NOT WELCOME HERE: Any posts attacking others based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity, or anything other than opposition to gun rights is NOT WELCOME HERE! We reserve the right to impose immediate bans for such behavior.

    (12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

    VCDL is hardly in opposition to RKBA and is definitely not against open carry.

    Suggest that the popcorn be saved for another place and time.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  22. #22
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828
    And i didn't even get mine popped!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  23. #23
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    because the ignoramuses we have to deal with don't know it :P
    And what would possibly give you any indication to think that a LEO who does not know the law would be willing to believe you based on a piece of paper you pull out of your pocket?

    TFred

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    634

    Okay, thanks RWL…,

    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    because the ignoramuses we have to deal with don't know it :P
    I pretty much thought that's what you meant. That's great if it works for you, I have to say that just as TFred pointed out, around here I haven't seen, and can't remember hearing of any incident where a LEO would even acknowledge the written law on paper, much less actually read it, especially from one of us, you know, the peasants.

    I can sort of understand it too. My take is that acting as if they really don't know or actually thinking that the law means something other than what it says is their biggest chip in the game, Qualified Immunity, dontcha' know. Although I think we can agree that there are still some cave men running around in uniforms with badges (I've happened on a few), I'm pretty convinced that the rest of them are "dumb like a fox."

    The officer will not read it, mainly because he doesn't have to, they do not need to, and you cannot make them read it. If they read it and actually understand it, and if they suddenly realize that they are wrong, they can end the encounter and/or admit that they are wrong (now, I've only heard one officer say "If I'm wrong, I'll apologize, but I haven't apologized to anyone in a long, long time"), or they can continue and risk pushing a bad point, and hope that if worse comes to worse that some sympathetic judge will see them as either a total dumbass and truly ignorant, or as one of the "good guys" that strayed over the line a little bit and has their ass about to be handed to them unless they can help'em out a little bit.

    So imagine that an officer actually reads the "relevant law" on a piece of paper that you just gave him (given that they can actually read and/or comprehend), he cannot let you have the upper hand, and nobody likes looking stupid, and he wouldn't if it weren't for you and your stupid piece of paper, no matter what it says. You cannot know more than them, unless you are in the legal profession, and sometimes even that will not help.

    Again, if it works for you, I'm really glad. I actually considered that (carrying the actual codes) for a little while, but for me there are too many "relevant laws" to warrant carrying all that paper that they'll just laugh at and hold in a particular/peculiar contempt anyway.

    YMMV

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29:11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.
    Last edited by sidestreet; 09-08-2015 at 09:16 AM.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by sidestreet View Post
    , Qualified Immunity, dontcha' know.

    sidestreet
    I've always seen two problems with claims of qualified immunity -

    1 -it's based on what a "reasonable" officer should have known.

    2 - there is hardly ever any push to establish what the officer in question should have known based on academy and in-service training received.

    (DOC grievances decided in favor of the inmate always included the instruction that "the involved officer/employee receive the education and training necessary to properly apply relevant law, policy and procedure." Might not have fixed the instant problem but set it up for any "next time".)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •