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Entire family arrested at checkpoint in Nevada

DON`T TREAD ON ME

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May 17, 2009
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1,231
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Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
I am still playing "catch up" on this thread, but the thing that stood out to me was the cop admitted he stopped the family because of the call from the bug check. This means that the cop had no first hand knowledge that a crime had been committed, (assuming it is a crime to not consent.) and instead relied on the bug check attendants phone call to initiate the seizure and subsequent arrest.

When a store manager catches a shoplifter, they initiate a "citizens arrest," call the fuzz, and sign a complaint against the shoplifter. That is the authorization for the cop to take the offender into custody. The cop can not have probable cause, as he did not see the shoplifter, and would be decimated in an honest court.

In Nevada "lawmakers" Have decided that If one cop saw it, it is PC for all other level 1 POST certified cops. It could be different in Cali, but Bug Check attendants are not POST certified to my knowledge.

At the end my conclusion is the cops are guilty of criminal activity, as well as being morally deficient. It must suck when you have to defend your actions with nonsense like "I was just doing my job", did they learn that one from the Nazi trials?
 

FallonJeeper

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Dec 27, 2011
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Fallon, NV
I can't tell but you seem to be putting sarcasm in you post. with the statement you would make to another private citizen.

but you need to ask if the government was asking, how long are you going to stay? would you want to tell them?


If the government were asking, I would say, "it's none of your business" or "I don't know". In this case I would be answering their question. It may not be what they want to hear.
 

Ron_O

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Aug 24, 2014
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Las Vegas
After extensive research (as well as the obvious in the 4th Amendment) it is clear that one can refuse any type of consent to a search by any ag station, inland border checkpoint, or other random stops which serve as 'inspections'. SCOTUS has ruled that unless these stations (inland border, roving border, and otherwise) have reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS) that you're guilty of a crime then they have no right to search your vehicle. However ag inspections fall into a gray area which case law may allow forced inspections whether or not you approve (if you want to enter the state). This is in reference to a case out of Hawaii which is outlined further below.

I read the cases posted by NavyMike earlier as well as an exhaustive posting of 34 pages of links to 4th Amendment cases: http://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-04/01-search-and-seizure.html

I'll be quoting from many of the cases that I read but if anyone wants me to dig up a particular case I'll do so and post it as a follow-up.

THIS is the only question that I have in mind when it comes to these ag stations: Can California refuse entry simply on the basis of refused inspection, when lacking any sort of evidence that you're carrying a quarantined product? The Hawaii case, People v. Dickinson, seems to indicate that they can keep you out if you don't submit to their forced search. That's my question in all of this.

To be clear, SCOTUS has branded these as seizure roadblocks which are set up for the purposes of administrative inspections. They consider them minor inconveniences whose purpose is greater than an individual's right to a minor delay and questioning.

I read an interesting case which was decided by a California appellate court. A Mexican national was at the ag station, questioned, and released by the ag officer. But a Border Patrol agent was listening to the questioning while observing the driver and stepped in to ask further questions 'based on his personal experience' which included the fact that the driver wouldn't look him in the eye and was very nervous in addition to speaking very little English. His car had California plates.

He asked him to pull aside and learned he was a Green Card Mexican national. He held his green card and asked him to open his trunk, which the driver did. He observed a large speaker box and asked for permission to let a dog search the vehicle. Once the driver agreed he was given his Green Card back. The speaker box was full of drugs and cash.

Driver was arrested and prosecuted. Appellate court reversed the decision due to lack of a warning sign that there'd be immigration inquiries at the ag checkpoint as well as the agent having no articulable probable cause, adding that the driver had no reason to believe that he was free to go at any time while this was happening (the agent was holding his Green Card). One of the agent's reasons for inspection was that the car had a trunk large enough to conceal an illegal LOL and the fact that no luggage could be seen inside the passenger compartment of the vehicle.

The driver went free. http://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/4th/28/817.html

SCOTUS has ruled the same with the roving border checkpoints as well as the temporary fixed immigration stations along the interstates. They are allowed to circle dogs around your vehicle and ask you questions but you are under no obligation to answer them nor submit to a search. Short of RAS they are violating the law if they hold or arrest you or search your vehicle at one of these checkpoints. The fact that you are nervous, speak little English, or other seemingly incriminating factors may NOT be sufficient RAS to search your vehicle.

California law states ONLY that you are to answer questions and submit to an inspection if you have ag materials on board. If you tell them NO and they see no ag products then they have no RAS to force a search. Can they detain you for this? SCOTUS seems to make it clear that they CANNOT. However the courts have ruled that ag quarantine inspections do not require warrants, as I'll outline further below.

As outlined in an immigration checkpoint case, United States vs. Ortiz, SCOTUS ruled,

This degree of discretion to search private automobiles is not consistent with the Fourth Amendment. A search, even of an automobile, is a substantial invasion of privacy. [Footnote 2] To protect that privacy from official arbitrariness, the Court always has regarded probable cause as the minimum requirement for a lawful search. Almeida-Sanchez, 413 U.S. at 413 U. S. 269-270; Chambers v. Maroney, 399 U. S. 42, 399 U. S. 51 (1970). We are not persuaded that the differences between roving patrols and traffic checkpoints justify dispensing in this case with the safeguards we required in Almeida-Sanchez. We therefore follow that decision and hold that, at traffic checkpoints removed from the border and its functional equivalents,

Page 422 U. S. 897

officers may not search private vehicles without consent or probable cause. [Footnote 3]

The Government lists in its reply brief some of the factors on which officers have relied in deciding which cars to search. They include the number of persons in a vehicle, the appearance and behavior of the driver and passengers, their inability to speak English, the responses they give to officers' questions, the nature of the vehicle, and indications that it may be heavily loaded. All of these factors properly may be taken into account in deciding whether there is probable cause to search a particular vehicle. In addition, as we note today in United States v. Brignoni-Ponce, ante at 422 U. S. 884-885, the officers are entitled to draw reasonable inferences from these facts in light of their knowledge of the area and their prior experience with aliens and smugglers. In this case, however, the officers advanced no special reasons for believing respondent's vehicle contained

Page 422 U. S. 898

aliens. The absence of probable cause makes the search invalid.


https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/422/891/case.html

The same reasoning would seem to be applicable to ag checkpoints. However that's not truly set in stone.

In the cases outlined by NavyMike, they all involved marijuana seizures. The first was luggage being searched for ag products when leaving Hawaii for the mainland. Drugs were discovered inside the bags. The USDA had ordered the quarantine inspections. The courts ruled that warrants would be unpractical because the evidence would be gone in moments as the flight left the ground and that it would be unfeasible to get a warrant for each passenger. The same is held with the highway ag inspection stations.

The next two cases given by NavyMike involved drivers going though the ag stations and voluntarily complying to searches 'because they felt they had no choice'. The agents observed packaged marijuana and let them pass through the stations. They then alerted police and police stopped and arrested them. Because they consented there was no question of illegal search.

The court in the latter case cited the Hawaii case and stated that warrants were not needed for ag searches, but added that they were not fully deciding that question because the accused voluntarily opened his trunk:

If the motorist voluntarily opens the trunk of the vehicle, the quarantine officer may look therein and, as here, remove any plant materials in plain view for further inspection. We do not address the full scope of search which may be available for quarantine purposes as that is unnecessary to our decision. fn. 1 We also do not decide anything concerning the refusal to allow search for that is not the case before us.

http://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/104/505.html

In the case in the video, the follow-up video states that the police report made no mention of the driver leaving the ag station without permission. NONE. It seems that the case clearly has to be thrown out, and in fact the cases that hit the higher courts all seem to involve drug busts as a result of the inspections.

There's more but this is food for thought and discussion. I highly doubt that any prosecution will take place and if it does it'll surely be overturned by higher courts, should there be a conviction. I also believe the state will be paying damages for its overt conduct regarding this seizure.

So, can California refuse entry because we refuse to a search that lacks RAS? I highly doubt it, despite their statute stating otherwise, but the courts have ruled that there is no RAS needed when it comes to ag inspections. It would seem that all any traveler would have to do would be to lie about what's on board and then hide the evidence from plain view. The fact that you have a cooler, out-of-state plates, bugs on your windshield, or anything else, should be of little general consequence.
 
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The Big Guy

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Oct 20, 2009
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Waco, TX
My wife had a nasty experience with the CA Ag station at Barstow some years ago. They blocked her car and called the CHIP. It is posted on here someplace I think. The Cop ended up yelling at the Ag Dept employee.
The Ag Dept employees are NOT sworn officers, and have no arrest powers except that of citizens arrest.

That ag inspection station is very easy to drive around. In fact when I used to go over there, and after my wife's problems, I would take the service road and honk as I drove by. On a busy day it was also much quicker than waiting in line.

Before that, I just always drove through the station without stopping. I didn't look at the guy in the booth. I just drove through or followed the car ahead of me. Never had them call the cops on me, that I know of.

I always used to let the Border Patrol officers on the 15 north of San Diego know that they were idiots and that they needed to learn where the border is. One guy I told him that since he had a heavy Hispanic accent he needed to prove
to me that he was legal. They would always get tired of it and tell me to be on my way.

My wife and I thought it would be fun to get a bunch of cars to go to the Ag Station and all refuse inspection. Block every lane. I suppose they would call in the swat team.

TBG
 

DVC

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City? Who wants to live in a CITY?, Nevada, USA
I go through the Donner Summit Bug Stop pretty frequently (my lady is in the PRC, at least for a while).

I've noticed that in the truck lane, they want bills of lading -- including for flatbed trucks hauling steel frames and other things which aren't agricultural in the slightest. They carry the bills into their office and I suppose they are copying them.

At the same time, over in the car side we're being waved through without even having to stop.

If I'm ever stopped, I intend to speak Japanese to the worker. Since I'm not Asian, if nothing else it will confuse and frustrate the KGBug folks.
 
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Wstar425

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Jul 1, 2014
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Tomahawk and Abbotsford, Wi.
I go through the Donner Summit Bug Stop pretty frequently (my lady is in the PRC, at least for a while).

I've noticed that in the truck lane, they want bills of lading -- including for flatbed trucks hauling steel frames and other things which aren't agricultural in the slightest. They carry the bills into their office and I suppose they are copying them.

At the same time, over in the car side we're being waved through without even having to stop.

If I'm ever stopped, I intend to speak Japanese to the worker. Since I'm not Asian, if nothing else it will confuse and frustrate the KGBug folks.

We generally hang our arm out the window holding our BOLs and kind of yell out what we are hauling. I normally have cheese or butter, maybe meat or paper. Lots of times you roll thru at a crawl and never stop. Some things like livestock, or obviously fresh produce would get more scrutiny. The don't copy the BOL. Lots of times the guy walks back inside the building when the next truck is 15 seconds away, instead of just standing there waiting.

A couple of years ago one of our guys heard that fresh eggs were a big deal, so he thought he would be funny and told the attendant that the truck behind him( his buddy) had fresh eggs tho he would say butter. That did not go over well. Spent a couple hours there due to that prank. Was not me. I've been thru there a thousand times and never been asked anything other than what I'm hauling.

The roving Border checkpoint/roadblocks are a different thing. They generally don't care what you are hauling. They do look at your reefer setting, usually low 30s. I suppose it would be possible to pack a couple hundred people into a 53 foot reefer? They have all kind of cameras and sensors coming into those things. No idea what they can see, but probably more than I want to know about. They either can't see a handgun, didn't notice, or don't care about it. I've never been detained at one, but they have the capability to unload your trailer if they suspect you are up to something. I don't believe I've ever shown BOL at these. Generally it's state your citizenship, anyone else in cab, and gone. Whether they could distinguish a couple of bundles of Jane from a load of leaf lettuce, I don't know but I would doubt it. I think the first call is maybe how nervous you seem? I'm not doing anything wrong, so I'm not nervous. I think it's wrong in a bunch of ways, but not worth the battle at 2 am on the side of th road. Maybe that's bad on me?

Commercial vehicles under different rules than private citizens so.......
 

Wstar425

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Jul 1, 2014
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Tomahawk and Abbotsford, Wi.
My wife and I thought it would be fun to get a bunch of cars to go to the Ag Station and all refuse inspection. Block every lane. I suppose they would call in the swat team.

TBG

That happens every Friday and Sunday evening at the BUG check north of Barstow! Just too much traffic. They couldn't care less if traffic is standing still, they're standing there for their shift whether they pass one car or one million. You or me getting to Vegas, or home, or where ever is not even on their list of concerns.


Probably where the zombie apocalypse is gonna originate......��
 
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