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Thread: Attorney who suggested the "Zip Lock" solution for DUI checkpoints is arrested (FL)

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Attorney who suggested the "Zip Lock" solution for DUI checkpoints is arrested (FL)

    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/dui-checkpoint/

    "Warren Redlich, the Florida attorney who pioneered a method of silently asserting constitutional rights at DUI checkpoints, called the “Fair DUI,” has been arrested at a checkpoint in Coral Gables, Florida.

    However, the attorney didn’t end up at the Coral Gables DUI checkpoint by chance. Redlich intentionally targeted the municipality after they enacted new policies for DUI stops, threatening to arrest motorists for simply refusing to roll down the window.

    “I deliberately went there. It was to make an example out of Coral Gables,” Redlich told CBS 4. “They adopted a policy that was more extreme than anything I had ever seen before.” (end of article quote)
    Last edited by BB62; 09-07-2015 at 05:11 PM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    .... and winds up UNarrested only hours later.

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    http://miami.cbslocal.com/2015/09/03...ui-checkpoint/

    After Redlich’s “Fair DUI” program gained national attention, Coral Gables attorneys took a closer look. “They adopted a policy that was more extreme than anything I had ever seen before,” Redlich claims. Essentially, refuse to open your window at the checkpoint and you can be arrested. Redlich was so upset by the policy he says he tried contacting the city attorney. “You don’t get to charge me with a crime. The legislature said this is the penalty. You don’t get to stack on new penalties.” The penalty he explained, usually, is a non-moving violation. A ticket. In Coral Gables though Redlich spent three hours in handcuffs.
    “I am confident I’m right. And I’m confident they are wrong,” Redlich summarizes.
    In the end officers decided to release him. He ended up with just a ticket for failing to exhibit a driver’s license. He suspects officers realized they couldn’t arrest him.
    Craig Leen, Coral Gables City Attorney, clarified that for CBS4. “He’s wrong.” Leen said. Leen says the officer has discretion. He added Redlich could still be charged with obstruction of justice. Leen called the situation sad. “He’s playing a game. He’s not here for any purpose but to obstruct the DUI checkpoint and that’s wrong,” according to Leen.
    The City is considering their options.
    Thunderdome. Two men enter. One man leaves.

    SPOILER ALERT:

    DUI checkpoints will be found to be legal as a narrowly defined compelling government interest. Fishing expeditions for the odor of alcoholic beverage, sans any other indicator of impaired/erratic driving, will be found to be improper searches. The display of a driver's license and motor vehicle registration will be found to be sufficient. The City of Coral Gables, and City Attorney Craig Leen, will be butt-hurt.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Ticketed for "Obstruction of Justice" for refusing to cooperate. It will be interesting to see if the courts make a distinction between not being cooperative and actively resisting, obstructing or opposing.

    843.02 Resisting officer without violence to his or her person.—Whoever shall resist, obstruct, or oppose any officer as defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), (3), (6), (7), (8), or (9); member of the Florida Commission on Offender Review or any administrative aide or supervisor employed by the commission; county probation officer; parole and probation supervisor; personnel or representative of the Department of Law Enforcement; or other person legally authorized to execute process in the execution of legal process or in the lawful execution of any legal duty, without offering or doing violence to the person of the officer, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    DG v. State, 661 So. 2d 75 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 2nd Dist. 1995
    https://scholar.google.com/scholar_c...en&as_sdt=4,10
    If a police officer is not engaged in executing process on a person, is not legally detaining that person, or has not asked the person for assistance with an ongoing emergency that presents a serious threat of imminent harm to person or property, the person's words alone can rarely, if ever, rise to the level of an obstruction. Thus, obstructive conduct rather than offensive words are normally required to support a conviction under this statute.
    The attorney supplied the police the required information they needed to verify who he is, ownership and proper licensing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/dui-checkpoint/

    "Warren Redlich, the Florida attorney who pioneered a method of silently asserting constitutional rights at DUI checkpoints, called the “Fair DUI,” has been arrested at a checkpoint in Coral Gables, Florida.

    However, the attorney didn’t end up at the Coral Gables DUI checkpoint by chance. Redlich intentionally targeted the municipality after they enacted new policies for DUI stops, threatening to arrest motorists for simply refusing to roll down the window.

    “I deliberately went there. It was to make an example out of Coral Gables,” Redlich told CBS 4. “They adopted a policy that was more extreme than anything I had ever seen before.” (end of article quote)
    so the city municipal code is now FORCING citizens to give up their 4th and 5th amendment rights? this local "law" should be placed under scrutiny of a higher office.

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    We need more people like this guy.
    I have only seen 2 dui checkpoints in my life and I turned around for both of them.

    Both were before I heard of this guy. He also didn't have one of these zip lock bags for ky the last time I looked.

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    The license is a contract and since he contracted with the state for said license, he is bound by their rules and regulations of said license.. While I personally believe his 4th and 5th Amendments were violated, I also believe that having the contract/license with the state gives the state jurisdiction over him... The caveat however is that he did present the documents required and the last time I checked invoking ones 5th Amendment right to remain silent was not a crime. (obstruction)..

    How lame is the District Attorney in that city? Also who pays the tab for all the LEO out there conducting the check point and violating the rights of citizens.

    Do we as citizens no longer have a God given right to be LEFT ALONE?

    I hope he prevails in Federal court, I see some USC 42 1983 violations going on against him.

    My .02
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    Last edited by countryclubjoe; 09-13-2015 at 09:26 AM.
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    The requisite elements that must be established to demonstrate the formation of a legally binding contract are (1) offer; (2) acceptance; (3) consideration; (4) mutuality of obligation; (5) competency and capacity; and, in certain circumstances, (6) a written instrument. http://contracts.uslegal.com/elements-of-a-contract/
    It is a license dispensed by the state.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    BLACK'S LAW DICTIONARY 4th. edition:
    LICENSE. Certificate or the document itself which gives permission. Aldrich v. City of Syracuse, 236 N.Y.S. 614, 617, 134 Misc. 698. Permission or authority. Independent School Dist., Class A, No. 1, Cassia County v. Pfost, 51 Idaho 240, 4 P.2d 893, 897; Monsour v. City of Shreveport, 194 La. 625, 194 So. 569, 571; Platt v. Bender, La.App., 178 , So. 678, 682.

    Motor Vehicles
    License to operate motor vehicle is mere privilege, and not a contract or property right. Garford Trucking v. Hoffman, 114 N.J.L. 522, 177 A., 882, 887; Blashfield, Cyc. of Automobile Law and Prac., Perm. Ed., § 580.
    My bold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    BLACK'S LAW DICTIONARY 4th. edition:
    My bold.
    Yes driving is a privilege but you do not give up your 4th and 5th amendment rights in exercising this privilege.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by travr6 View Post
    Yes driving is a privilege but you do not give up your 4th and 5th amendment rights in exercising this privilege.
    The 4th. you do. The USSC says the cops can search your car. You can object all you want, RAS. All the cop has to say is he smells something.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Contracts under duress are .........?

    By who's authority did it become a privilege granted by the state?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    The 4th. you do. The USSC says the cops can search your car. You can object all you want, RAS. All the cop has to say is he smells something.
    That is probable cause

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by travr6 View Post
    That is probable cause
    No, it's not probable cause, it's reasonable suspicion. And if that reasonable suspicion is wrong, oh well, have a nice day.
    Last edited by color of law; 09-13-2015 at 03:32 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Contracts under duress are .........?

    By who's authority did it become a privilege granted by the state?
    Because the court said so. Remember, they don't care what the constitution says.

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    No, it's not probable cause, it's reasonable suspicion. And if that reasonable suspicion is wrong, oh well, have a nice day.
    Reasonable suspicion does not allow an officer to search without consent. It only allows for a brief detainment.

    Probably cause is required to search.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Ticketed for "Obstruction of Justice" for refusing to cooperate. It will be interesting to see if the courts make a distinction between not being cooperative and actively resisting, obstructing or opposing.
    Actually no.

    During his detention by Coral Gables police, Redlich spent over three hours in handcuffs. In a telling move, police released him. He ended up with just a ticket for failing to exhibit a driver’s license, an obviously bogus charge, as the ID was displayed in the clear bag he presented to police.

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    Quote Originally Posted by travr6 View Post
    Reasonable suspicion does not allow an officer to search without consent. It only allows for a brief detainment.

    Probably cause is required to search.
    Inventory search incident to arrest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Inventory search incident to arrest.
    Yes after arrest.
    They cannot conduct a search without arresting you based upon reasonable suspicion.
    Reasonable suspicion is used to detain in an attempt to get consent for a search.

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    Quote Originally Posted by travr6 View Post
    Yes after arrest.
    They cannot conduct a search without arresting you based upon reasonable suspicion.
    Reasonable suspicion is used to detain in an attempt to get consent for a search.
    He was arrested.

    They cannot conduct a search without arresting you based upon reasonable suspicion.
    Arrests require probable cause not just reasonable suspicion.
    Last edited by notalawyer; 09-13-2015 at 09:47 PM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger
    Ticketed for "Obstruction of Justice" for refusing to cooperate. It will be interesting to see if the courts make a distinction between not being cooperative and actively resisting, obstructing or opposing.
    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Actually no.
    During his detention by Coral Gables police, Redlich spent over three hours in handcuffs. In a telling move, police released him. He ended up with just a ticket for failing to exhibit a driver’s license, an obviously bogus charge, as the ID was displayed in the clear bag he presented to police.
    Are you so sure?
    Florida Statute 322.15 requires that the driver shall "... present or submit (his license) upon the demand of a law enforcement officer...". A license held up on the far side of a window would not, I submit, be deemed to have been either submitted nor presented. The license is the property of the State of Florida and they make the rules, just like a credit card company does with its products.


    Additionally, there's another thing that bothers me,...

    ... while 318.22(2) says an officer 'must certify must certify by electronic, electronic facsimile, or written signature that the citation was delivered to the person cited', sub-section (3) states that 'Any person who willfully refuses to accept and sign a summons as provided in subsection (2) commits a misdemeanor of the second degree.'
    IF Mr. Redlich were to be issued a citation, then refusing to sign would seem to be a violation of the law.


    All that said, I think Mr Redlich is doing the right thing, suspicionless stops may be "constitutional" but they are Constitutional.

    I look forward to seeing what happens when cops are presented with the upcoming 'digital proof of driver's license', will there even be a need for an open window?
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 09-13-2015 at 10:14 PM.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/dui-checkpoint/

    "Warren Redlich, the Florida attorney who pioneered a method of silently asserting constitutional rights at DUI checkpoints, called the “Fair DUI,” has been arrested at a checkpoint in Coral Gables, Florida.

    However, the attorney didn’t end up at the Coral Gables DUI checkpoint by chance. Redlich intentionally targeted the municipality after they enacted new policies for DUI stops, threatening to arrest motorists for simply refusing to roll down the window.

    “I deliberately went there. It was to make an example out of Coral Gables,” Redlich told CBS 4. “They adopted a policy that was more extreme than anything I had ever seen before.” (end of article quote)
    I like this guy. Apart from the fact he was arrested. I really do wish I was in a real live situation. It would be a real life test of every hardline no nonsense stance I have. I hope he does indeed file a federal lawsuit
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    Regular Member Liberty-or-Death's Avatar
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    He was arrested, then "un-arrested".
    https://youtu.be/68TlLCbswNw
    Be active.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Are you so sure?
    Florida Statute 322.15 requires that the driver shall "... present or submit (his license) upon the demand of a law enforcement officer...". A license held up on the far side of a window would not, I submit, be deemed to have been either submitted nor presented. The license is the property of the State of Florida and they make the rules, just like a credit card company does with its products.


    Additionally, there's another thing that bothers me,...

    ... while 318.22(2) says an officer 'must certify must certify by electronic, electronic facsimile, or written signature that the citation was delivered to the person cited', sub-section (3) states that 'Any person who willfully refuses to accept and sign a summons as provided in subsection (2) commits a misdemeanor of the second degree.'
    IF Mr. Redlich were to be issued a citation, then refusing to sign would seem to be a violation of the law.


    All that said, I think Mr Redlich is doing the right thing, suspicionless stops may be "constitutional" but they are Constitutional.

    I look forward to seeing what happens when cops are presented with the upcoming 'digital proof of driver's license', will there even be a need for an open window?

    A license held up on the far side of a window would not, I submit, be deemed to have been either submitted nor presented.
    I was only quoting the article in order to counter the other poster's statement of the arrest.

    The two arguments I've heard are as follows:
    1) The wording of 322.15(1) was changed last year and replaced the word "display" with "present or submit" to accommodate the electronic DL change further in that subsection. It's obvious that the legislature does not intend to require folks to hand over their phone to a LEO in this situation. 1

    2)Another argument is that the legislature failed to make a similar change in subsection 2, which contain the penal provisions. So apparently it's only unlawful to fail to display the DL.

    1 Some may think that there is now a conflict between subsections 1 & 2 and if so the Rule of Lenity would require a court to rule in the defendant's favor. Especially considering the legislature's stated purpose for making the change - to allow for electronic proof of DL. Nothing states the intent of the change was intended to change the longstanding provision of displaying the DL to now requiring one to physically hand over the DL.
    amending s. 322.15, F.S.; authorizing a digital proof of driver license to be accepted in lieu of a physical driver license;
    As to your other point, 318.14(2):
    Except as provided in ss. 316.1001(2) and 316.0083, any person cited for a violation requiring a mandatory hearing listed in s. 318.19 or any other criminal traffic violation listed in chapter 316 must sign and accept a citation indicating a promise to appear.
    Only applies to (as stated) 316.1001(2), 316.0083, 318.19 ( short list of statutes wherein the LEO can select a mandatory hearing), or criminal violations in 316. None of those are applicable.

    As was stated in the video (or another one on the same subject), many of the LEO seemed professional, however there were several that appeared to be constrained in their obvious hostility only by the presence of several cameras.
    Last edited by notalawyer; 09-14-2015 at 12:59 AM.

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