open carry empty holster may have prevented an assault; Seward park sign out of date

skidmark said:

In the instant case I'm presuming that the OP took this http://pcdcarry.com/info.html to the next step down.

Those "things" [/disgusted voice] have been discussed previously, will all sorts of speculation about what might happen when the "perception" is no longer sufficient.

I suggest that your "something"s do not by their mere presence act as a deterrent. For instance, a yellow t-shirt with "17th Street Royal Rangers" in black print might in certain neighborhoods act as a deterrent on even a scrawny 12-year old black kid, but putting one on a 6'8' well-muscled white guy with a high & tight and mirrored shades will do everything but deter bad things happening in that certain neighborhood or just about anywhere else. IMHO it's the object + the attitude (demeanor) that makes most things act as a deterrent - and the attitude (demeanor) without the thing often is sufficient in itself.

stay safe.

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The environment of Denny Blaine Park on sunny summer days is one heavily crowded with people. It appears that I have been assaulted once and threatened once by persons untrained. You folks like the idea of carrying handguns; I am not convinced it is necessary, yet, for my purpose.

Till then, I gave a few persons one additional minor mental distraction . . . one additional item to consider . . . when weighing whether or not to punch me, grab me or grab the camera.

I've been visiting the martial arts studio for a month . . . One thing they say/teach is that when your opponent is off balance and attempting to regain his balance, you have a significant advantage compared to when he is stationary. . . and the question includes, does my wearing an empty holster increase their distraction and put them slightly more off balance?

given the fact that the fellow then claimed that SPD would be there in 3 minutes, I think it did.

zaitz said:

The environment of Denny Blaine Park on sunny summer days is one heavily crowded with people. It appears that I have been assaulted once and threatened once by persons untrained. You folks like the idea of carrying handguns; I am not convinced it is necessary, yet, for my purpose.

Till then, I gave a few persons one additional minor mental distraction . . . one additional item to consider . . . when weighing whether or not to punch me, grab me or grab the camera.

I've been visiting the martial arts studio for a month . . . One thing they say/teach is that when your opponent is off balance and attempting to regain his balance, you have a significant advantage compared to when he is stationary. . . and the question includes, does my wearing an empty holster increase their distraction and put them slightly more off balance?...

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Wow. :uhoh: <shakes head at naivete>

BB62 said:

Wow. :uhoh: <shakes head at naivete>

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I have a lot to learn, surely . . . you are welcome to begin to educate me!

zaitz said:

I have a lot to learn, surely . . . you are welcome to begin to educate me!

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You have already had the cr@p kicked out of you and came close to losing that pretty little camera. Martial arts is nice for TV, hand2hand almost always gets you hurt (personal exp) and more than one BG complicates it more.

You folks like the idea of carrying handguns; I am not convinced it is necessary, yet, for my purpose. Originally Posted by zaitz

See the above where you were assaulted. Yes, we like to Openly Carry handguns so the BGs just move on to the next target. You, on the other hand, think you can get by, after the fact, with martial arts. Sorry mate, the best fight is the one where the BGs surrender without confrontation. AVOID battle but prepare for it. You seem to do neither. Why ask for help and when offered refuse it.

skidmark said:

If the handgun is not some sort of magic talisman that will protect you by its mere presence, there is no way that an empty holster is some sort of magic talisman either.

Your thought about the fellow who owns one holster and what he may or may not also own or have with him is as close to crazy as I want to get this week.

But I do want to know where you can purchase a reliable handgun and even basic (NRA First Steps) training for between $200 and $500. I'd like to get in on that deal.

My guess is that you know very little about handguns and about self defense, other than possibly what you have seen in the movies/on TV or read. IMHO only about 3% of carrying a handgun for self defense is training and proficiency - although the latter is vitally important and usually implies the former. IMHO 97% is about attitude and mindset. Putting on and carrying a handgun means you are willing and prepared to go all the way to causing the death of another person if that is the logical outcome of attempting to stop the threat of death or serious bodily injury to yourself or innocent others. We don't "shoot to kill" but sometimes someone we have shot dies.

Please go back to "START" and spend some time deciding if carrying a handgun for self defense is the right course for you at this time. While you are doing that, please stop thinking that wearing an empty holster offers you any measure of protection.

stay safe.

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I know a firearms dealer here where you can purchase an SR9 for about $450... and there are some cheaper side arms around the 340+ range that do... OK, and cycle reliably. so you might be able to get 1 decent sidearm and 1 class....

zaitz said:

I have a lot to learn, surely . . . you are welcome to begin to educate me!

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You state "it appears that I have been assaulted once"???What does that mean? Were you assaulted or were you not? What does an appearance of an assault look like? Were you in a movie and acting like you were assaulted? In the movies, light sabers appear to cut people to pieces...please explain this appearance of an assault.


You are not convinced that a firearm is necessary for your purpose? What is the purpose of carrying an empty holster? Some sort of mental distraction? For whom? For the thug whose purpose is to relieve of anything he/she feels valuable, an empty holster means nothing. If you seem unarmed, chances are more likely that you are. For the unwary thug, your holster looks more like a cell phone holder or a funny looking fanny pack. If I see an empty holster, I start looking at the direction you are coming from to see where you dropped your firearm.

Your assumption that an empty holster is somewhat of a deterrent is just that, an assumption based on nothing more than feelings...correlation/causation sort of thing.

This is an Open Carry forum, not the "I'll carry an empty holster hoping it distracts the thugs until I am ready to arm myself and because I am not yet convinced it is necessary to carry a firearm for any purpose" forum.

An empty holster is not a gateway drug that makes you want to buy a gun.

The first thing you need to learn...guns are inanimate objects and they do not care about your comfort level and does not worry itself about convincing anyone for any purpose.

As far as the martial arts are concerned...it teaches you many things and its applications take practice. It is easier to appear trained in the martial arts than to actually apply it. Putting an opponent off balance is great, but you actually have to know how to do that and it takes practice to learn how to exploit that opening and it takes more to actually know that it is an opening versus what may "appear" to be an opening.

The only difference between normal OC and what you're doing is the odds of survival IMO. The choice is yours, but one of the choices is so much more logical than the other that it would be silly to choose the other and put yourself in needless danger.

Your way, if things escalate to the level of a lethal threat, chances of survival are zero. This conclusion is reached because if the threat is potentially lethal (especially multiple attackers) or it reaches a threat level which you deem reasonable to resist with lethal force, YOU LOSE - unless you're very lucky, even if you've had some training, because you have no FORCE MULTIPLIER.

Normal Open Carry with a firearm that you have become proficient with means there is an equalizer, or a FORCE MULTIPLIER involved. If you couldn't beat 2 attackers before, you have a much higher probability of survival if you're armed. It's really a no brainer.

You've already been physically attacked. Personally, I'd want to ensure my own safety.

Bernymac said:

You state "it appears that I have been assaulted once"???What does that mean? Were you assaulted or were you not? What does an appearance of an assault look like? Were you in a movie and acting like you were assaulted? In the movies, light sabers appear to cut people to pieces...please explain this appearance of an assault.


You are not convinced that a firearm is necessary for your purpose? What is the purpose of carrying an empty holster? Some sort of mental distraction? For whom? For the thug whose purpose is to relieve of anything he/she feels valuable, an empty holster means nothing. If you seem unarmed, chances are more likely that you are. For the unwary thug, your holster looks more like a cell phone holder or a funny looking fanny pack. If I see an empty holster, I start looking at the direction you are coming from to see where you dropped your firearm.

Your assumption that an empty holster is somewhat of a deterrent is just that, an assumption based on nothing more than feelings...correlation/causation sort of thing.

This is an Open Carry forum, not the "I'll carry an empty holster hoping it distracts the thugs until I am ready to arm myself and because I am not yet convinced it is necessary to carry a firearm for any purpose" forum.

An empty holster is not a gateway drug that makes you want to buy a gun.

The first thing you need to learn...guns are inanimate objects and they do not care about your comfort level and does not worry itself about convincing anyone for any purpose.

As far as the martial arts are concerned...it teaches you many things and its applications take practice. It is easier to appear trained in the martial arts than to actually apply it. Putting an opponent off balance is great, but you actually have to know how to do that and it takes practice to learn how to exploit that opening and it takes more to actually know that it is an opening versus what may "appear" to be an opening.

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I agree with this 100%, you need to practice, both physically AND mentally, you need to run through scenarios, visualize openings, and counter attacks, and then apply it and see if it works in a training scenario that simulates a real scenario.

unfortunately, MANY MA places use controlled opposition/sparring where the attacks are pre determined. sometimes they have "no holds barred, anything goes" matches between pupils, but they are rare.

one that has more sparring of random physical encounters incorporated into training is a better place to learn IMO as it would simulate real life much better.

NavyMike said:

--quote deleted by Moderator--

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shame on you navy...i looked and now want some semblance of my sanity back...and folk wonder why i shun totally social media...

Zait's quote: ...no mental health commitments by judicial authority...unquote. sir, while not by judicial order, it is concerning you are familiar with the term which possibly means you accepted voluntary commitment to adjudicate your mental health issue(s). as for being able to purchase a firearm...living proof of the fallacies in this country's MH reporting systems.

ipse

solus said:

shame on you navy...i looked and now want some semblance of my sanity back...and folk wonder why i shun totally social media...

Zait's quote: ...no mental health commitments by judicial authority...unquote. sir, while not by judicial order, it is concerning you are familiar with the term which possibly means you accepted voluntary commitment to adjudicate your mental health issue(s). as for being able to purchase a firearm...living proof of the fallacies in this country's MH reporting systems.

ipse

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I found it particulalry odd that he would write about a sexual assault, saying the complaint and news story was an attempt to frame him, when the news story does not even remotely refer to him.


http://greenlakewalking.net/about/

An alleged sexual assault reported on komonews on 10/27/14 and reported to have happened 10/10/14 was a fabrication, as best I can determine, created by a woman who wanted to bring police and public scrutiny to my walks. We know this from one or more contradictions between the police report and the komonews story and some incredible parts of her story.


http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Woman-attacked-at-Green-Lake-280489282.html?mobile=y

I'm not so sure that women would be quite as responsive to his 'Free Hugs' poster if they could see his internet ramblings.

To get this back on topic: he's a reason that more women should open carry and why I'm glad that Seattle's ban on firearms in parks was overturned.