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Thread: New Gun Rights Initiative/Referendum? How do you respond if asked to sit in the bar?

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    New Gun Rights Initiative/Referendum? How do you respond if asked to sit in the bar?

    My family & I were running errands in town yesterday, & while at the Pasco Walmart noticed a table near the Food Center entrance that had a sign stating something about "Gun Rights". Is there an initiative/referendum petition going around that I do not now about?

    During that same trip, we decided to stop & get dinner at the Richland Applebee's. When entering the Manager (acting as the host), asked if we were all over 21 as he was going to seat us in the bar area. I politely said we are all over 21, however we cannot sit in the bar area. He, without losing a beat, stated jokingly "got your shotgun with you?" & proceeded to seat us in the all ages area. No other questions were asked, but I did state that I didn't want to see them get in trouble for seating us in the bar area & he thanked me.

    I am curious how others would respond if asked to sit in the bar area while carrying.

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Same, no thank you I will sit in the regular area.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    would simplify things if the OP was OCing :P *waits for the explosion of comments*
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    would simplify things if the OP was OCing :P *waits for the explosion of comments*
    Most of the time, when OCing I hardly get a response from people, except for the strange/odd look (not counting the DSHS event). I do both IWB & OWB OC, though been doing more IWB OC. Not always when doing IWB OC can the sidearm be noticed, compared to OWB.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnrobitaille View Post
    Most of the time, when OCing I hardly get a response from people, except for the strange/odd look (not counting the DSHS event). I do both IWB & OWB OC, though been doing more IWB OC. Not always when doing IWB OC can the sidearm be noticed, compared to OWB.
    I'm not surprised. if your information is uptodate you live in a tiny little village and probably know 80% of the people plus you're not anywhere near Seattle.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnrobitaille View Post

    I am curious how others would respond if asked to sit in the bar area while carrying.
    I was CC at the time and politely let them know that I could not be seated there due to my sidearm. The restaurant host was vert nice and seated me/us in the general dining.

    I do not remember if I was alone or had the GF (of that time) with me.

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    I've had this happen several times while OC'ing and CC'ing.
    I simply say, "I prefer to sit on the restaraunt side, thank you. "
    I keep it simple. Only one time I've had a hostess insist I sit on the bar side. I informed her firearms aren't allowed in the portion of the establishment deemed off limits to minors by the LCB.
    It took her a moment to realize I was telling her I was armed. It was amusing as I was OC'ing that day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    I'm not surprised. if your information is uptodate you live in a tiny little village and probably know 80% of the people plus you're not anywhere near Seattle.
    Yes I live in a small community (population about 200), & I only know maybe about 25% of those in my town, however when going to town, I am going to Pasco, Kennewick, &/or Richland. I have to deal with Costco & other like minded businesses, just like you have in Seattle.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I usually am just straight up and say "It's now lawful for me to be in the bar area, is there another seat/table available?" I find all the places I have had to say this at were more than accommodating.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    I'm not surprised. if your information is uptodate you live in a tiny little village and probably know 80% of the people plus you're not anywhere near Seattle.
    Wow. Ah just FYI, this could really make you sound like a Seattle Elitist Douchewrap.

    Then again, I just live in a tiny little village... not anywhere near Seattle.

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    Asked about sitting in the bar area...

    It's really simple...

    In your best Foster Brooks impersonation, just say....

    Why thank you deeeaar, but I'm toasted already...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lthrnck View Post
    It's really simple...

    In your best Foster Brooks impersonation, just say....

    Why thank you deeeaar, but I'm toasted already...
    Another reason why we need a ROFLAO smiley.

    And how many posters do you imagine know who Foster Brooks was, as opposed to needing to Google him? (Where's the Oulde Phart smiley?)

    stay safe.
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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    It took her a moment to realize I was telling her I was armed. It was amusing as I was OC'ing that day.
    I, too, have had this waitress talk to me. They seem almost dense until they lay eyes on the weapon.


    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I find all the places I have had to say this at were more than accommodating.
    This is Truth!. With one exception....http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...cause-of-a-gun


    Happens to me fairly often. I just tell them that I am armed and I cannot go into that area. Never any worries.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    ...

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    [
    Skid, I thought you had more hair than that,eh?
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by mnrobitaille View Post
    My family & I were running errands in town yesterday, & while at the Pasco Walmart noticed a table near the Food Center entrance that had a sign stating something about "Gun Rights". Is there an initiative/referendum petition going around that I do not now about?
    if a person wishes to check on the existence of any initiative or referendum, go to the website of the sec of state of washington and click on elections and voting and initiatives and referenda . . .

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    Protection of gun rights

    While in Pasco @ Walmart, the table was there again asking for petition signers, I was able to find out that the issue with gun rights deals with H.R. 2959: The Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2013. In simple terms, there would be nationwide reciprocity for CPL holders, you would just have to know the local laws about where to carry & not carry.

    More information about H.R 2959 can be found at: NRA-ILA| H.R. 2959, the Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2013 or at: H.R.2959 - National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2013

    Unfortunately at the same time the gentleman requesting the signatures did not seem well versed in RKBA or the organizations fighting to keep those rights.

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    Regular Member Boomboy007's Avatar
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    Hm, that certainly would set off a few warning bells for me. Now just who will have this personally identifying information?
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomboy007 View Post
    Hm, that certainly would set off a few warning bells for me. Now just who will have this personally identifying information?
    and people wonder why they get hacked. This is like the little card you fill out to win that new car parked in the mall. Sure, I want to give all my info to some bozo with a clipboard standing outside of haggens.

    Ask for HIS credentials.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Please no National Reciprocity Act - what the government gives, the government can take away.

    Better that states agree to accept permits, much as they do driving licenses now........but the feds are looking to change that too:
    http://blog.caranddriver.com/the-feds-want-to-replace-your-drivers-license-with-a-national-id-card/


    Last edited by Grapeshot; 09-20-2015 at 01:45 PM.
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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Please no National Reciprocity Act - what the government gives, the government can take away.

    Better that states agree to accept permits, much as they do driving licenses now........but the feds are looking to change that too:
    http://blog.caranddriver.com/the-feds-want-to-replace-your-drivers-license-with-a-national-id-card/


    They can't take away a right you've always had and always will. Unless you submit to it and of course you'd let them.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Please no National Reciprocity Act - what the government gives, the government can take away.

    Better that states agree to accept permits, much as they do driving licenses now........but the feds are looking to change that too:
    http://blog.caranddriver.com/the-feds-want-to-replace-your-drivers-license-with-a-national-id-card/


    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    And, one thing you will notice about the current National Reciprocity bills - they do not protect the rights of the people via either the 2nd Amendment or the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the Constitution. All of the National Reciprocity bills are based on establishing the Federal government's (false) authority to regulate concealed carry permits via the much and widely abused Interstate Commerce Clause.
    Two plus ones.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Please no National Reciprocity Act - what the government gives, the government can take away.
    I have to question this line of thinking.

    We don't have national reciprocity now. So if we got it for say 10 years and then congress repealed the law, how would we be worse off than we are now?

    Are you suggesting that if congress passed a national reciprocity act they could then, and only then, turn around and pass laws against States recognizing out-of-State permits? The provisions of the federal GFSZ law already do this for large patches of land within the several States. For example, Utah recognizes all permits issued nationwide. Our State GFSZ law includes only the buildings and grounds themselves. But under federal law, the GFSZ includes the grounds and then 1000 feet as the crow flies from the edge of school grounds. Further, under that federal GFSZ law, the non-Utah permit that Utah happily accepts to conceal carry into a bar while having a drink is meaningless for otherwise lawful possession of a gun on a public street, 999 feet away from the school.

    I simply do not see where national reciprocity gives the feds any powers they don't already have and haven't already used.

    What protects our RKBA and inter-State recognition is not some "precedence". It is raw political power. And forcing Cali, NJ, NYC, Chicago, and the other people's republics to respect our rights to some increased degree is likely to increase our political power as residents of those States demand the ability to carry guns on equal footing with non-resident visitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Better that states agree to accept permits, much as they do driving licenses now........
    Actually, better for the feds to do their job under the 2nd and 14th amendment and protect our constitutionally enumerated, natural rights to RKBA against State level infringement, similar to how the feds passed legislation to prevent government sponsored racial discrimination.

    We'd never suggest that individual States be free to ignore the 1st amendment by banning unpopular newspapers. We should not accept that they remain free to completely ban RKBA.

    Accepting non-resident permits is not the ideal solution. But it is a step in the right direction.

    Charles
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    And, one thing you will notice about the current National Reciprocity bills - they do not protect the rights of the people via either the 2nd Amendment or the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the Constitution. All of the National Reciprocity bills are based on establishing the Federal government's (false) authority to regulate concealed carry permits via the much and widely abused Interstate Commerce Clause.

    I would not want to see State issued permits to carry considered to be a proper respect for the 2nd amendment. Neither do I see that a permit to carry falls under full faith and credit any more than a business license.

    Ideally, congress would protect our RKBA via invocation of the 2nd and 14th amendments to require every State to respect permit-free Constitutional carry.

    But politics is the art of the possible. And an InterState Commerce clause requirement to respect out-of-State permits to carry, is a good, pragmatic step in the right direction, even if we might consider constitutionally imperfect.

    State issued permits to carry are offensive to a true understanding of the 2nd amendment and most States' RKBA constitutional provisions. But they have been a pragmatic stepping stone toward a half dozen States now respecting constitutional carry. They have also enabled millions of LACs to defend themselves lawfully.

    Incrementalism works for us just as readily as it has been used against us...if we are prudent enough to use it, rather than letting the perfect be the enemy of the good enough.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    I would not want to see State issued permits to carry considered to be a proper respect for the 2nd amendment. Neither do I see that a permit to carry falls under full faith and credit any more than a business license.

    Ideally, congress would protect our RKBA via invocation of the 2nd and 14th amendments to require every State to respect permit-free Constitutional carry.

    But politics is the art of the possible. And an InterState Commerce clause requirement to respect out-of-State permits to carry, is a good, pragmatic step in the right direction, even if we might consider constitutionally imperfect.

    State issued permits to carry are offensive to a true understanding of the 2nd amendment and most States' RKBA constitutional provisions. But they have been a pragmatic stepping stone toward a half dozen States now respecting constitutional carry. They have also enabled millions of LACs to defend themselves lawfully.

    Incrementalism works for us just as readily as it has been used against us...if we are prudent enough to use it, rather than letting the perfect be the enemy of the good enough.

    Charles
    Well Chuck,
    What about your driver license then?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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