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Thread: Sothern Nevada open carry face book poster was detained today by NLVPD.

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    Sothern Nevada open carry face book poster was detained today by NLVPD.

    A poster on the Sothern Nevada open carry face book was detained today by NLVPD for OCing in at park Pecos and Cheyenne. There is a picture of with him standing in front of the curser with his hands on the hood. I am only posting this for a heads up. No real details, the poster said they were real jerks.
    I suggested he post it here thinking he would get some good pointers. He said no matter what he said LEOs said he was wrong and breaking the law. Interesting thing they did not ticket or arrest him, escorted him to his car and let him leave with his firearm.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    No video of the encounter?
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
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    Got a link Don? I thought I was a member of that group. I seem to be a member of Nevada open carry but don't see anything there.

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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    From my blog post:

    On a Las Vegas Facebook firearm group, a member posted his experience with North Las Vegas police illegally detaining him at the Cheyenne Sports Complex while openly carrying his handgun.

    The poster stated: “I was with a couple of friends in the parking lot a cop pass by and just started to tell me put your hands behind your back [...].” His firearm was not confiscated, however the officers did walk him back to his car, presumably to lock the gun in the car.

    A full account from the poster is pending as Nevada Carry has requested a full interview for more details of the incident. What can be gleaned is that the poster was detained without probable cause for being in possession of a firearm in a park. He was not arrested or cited, but his was illegally prohibited from openly carrying his firearm.

    As readers know, state law prohibits local authorities from regulating the carry of firearms or prohibiting them from local parks. This law was strengthened this year by SB 175 and SB 240. North Las Vegas just recently repealed its illegal firearm laws. Under state and city law, simply carrying a firearm openly in a city park would not be grounds for a detention (and wouldn’t be anywhere else carrying a firearm is permitted). Unless there are details we are not aware of, this was a totally illegal detention and a violation of civil rights.

    North Las Vegas police have an incredibly bad rap when it comes to open carry. Before state preemption laws were enacted in 1989, carrying a firearm was highly restricted and per city ordinances, required a concealed firearm permit, despite state law being silent on open carry. After the preemption laws went into effect, sporadic illegal searches, seizures, and detentions occurred for those in violation of city ordinances. People openly carrying were stopped and detained. Firearms carried legally in vehicles were illegally seized. Anecdotal evidence states that minorities were disproportionately affected, profiled, harassed, and discriminated against.

    Despite officers’ behaviors changing over time and preemption laws, rumors persisted that it was still illegal to have a firearm in a vehicle or carry one openly. These rumors were conclusively disproved here.

    The risk was that a rogue officer who engaged in illegal, unconstitutional acts would still enforce them always existed. Yet the prevalence of these incidents has declined precipitously over the years to the point it has become almost a non-issue. The editor of Nevada Carry and others in the open carry movement have carried openly in North Las Vegas many times without incident. Sadly, racial profiling, open disdain of armed citizens, and unconstitutional and unethical police behavior is apparently once again raising its ugly head in North Las Vegas.

    Nevada Carry has asked North Las Vegas police for a comment.
    I have interviewed the guy, but I'm holding my cards until I can get an answer from the PIO. BTW, anybody got an email address for NORA requests for NLVPD?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    Got a link Don? I thought I was a member of that group. I seem to be a member of Nevada open carry but don't see anything there.
    Las Vegas (Southern Nevada) Open Carry Face Book. I guess I am not smart enough to hook you up with the link.

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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    From my blog post:



    I have interviewed the guy, but I'm holding my cards until I can get an answer from the PIO. BTW, anybody got an email address for NORA requests for NLVPD?
    Don’t Tread On Me has firsthand experience with NLVPD regarding firearms and motorcycle helmet laws. He is still around however other than his posting name I have no contact info.

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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    The following are the details of the incident based on my interview with the involved citizen. More at the blog.

    Jose was with two other family members visiting an impromptu truck show at the Cheyenne Sports Complex. Jose was openly carrying a handgun.

    At some point, police began to arrive. Jose did not witness any illegal activity and is unaware of any reason why the police would be called. Police began shouting, declaring the event to be an illegal assembly and ordering the crowd to disperse.

    When police saw that Jose was armed, police approached him, ordering him to put his hands behind his back. Jose complied. When he asked if he was being detained, the officers did not respond. Jose was handcuffed, disarmed, and escorted to a police vehicle where he was handcuffed. Police took his wallet and discovered his concealed firearm permit (CCW). At this point, the officers uncuffed him.

    Jose was surrounded by six to seven officers. One officer berated him, telling him that Jose was in violation of the terms of his concealed firearm permit and that the officer was going to cite Jose for open carry in a park, which according to the officer, was illegal per North Las Vegas city code.

    Jose attempted to inform the officer that he was incorrect, that state law preempted North Las Vegas’ ordinances, but the officer continued to argue and threaten Jose. Jose was then released, after police escorted him to his vehicle to put away his firearm.

    Unfortunately, Jose did not obtain the names or badge numbers of the officers involved, however, he will look into filing a complaint regarding the egregious and illegal behaviors of the officers.
    Pending NLVPD's response...
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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    Nice letter.

    Maybe an open carry picnic would make the point?

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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Nice letter.

    Maybe an open carry picnic would make the point?
    Thanks! And first weekend in October (next weekend) would be perfect!

    City attorney's reply:

    Hello Mr. Garand Guy,

    I will have to investigate the facts surrounding the incident you describe that occurred at the Cheyenne Sports Complex last Thursday.

    Be assured that my office and the police department are aware of the passage and adoption of SB 175 and 240, and the City appropriately amended our municipal code in August to reflect the recent changes in state law.

    Thank you for your email.

    Sandra
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    Thanks! And first weekend in October (next weekend) would be perfect!

    City attorney's reply:
    basically a legalese of 'oh crap someone heard about that incident ~ yes, we know the law - ask us, we'll get back to ya, now ya'l bugger off!' kinda of response.

    good job garand...on all fronts.

    ipse
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    ...Be assured that my office and the police department are aware of the passage and adoption of SB 175 and 240, and the City appropriately amended our municipal code in August to reflect the recent changes in state law. Be assured that my office and the police department are aware of the passage and adoption of SB 175 and 240, and the City appropriately amended our municipal code in August to reflect the recent changes in state law...
    Yeah, we changed the law, but didn't effectively inform the law enforcers.

    I wonder if the city would hide behind attorney-client privilege if you were to request their training/informational material on the change?

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Yeah, we changed the law, but didn't effectively inform the law enforcers.

    I wonder if the city would hide behind attorney-client privilege if you were to request their training/informational material on the change?
    i would presume it would be available under FOIA actions? after i heard about one of the gentlemen from the WA subforum doing it i put in submissions to a few departments and got piece meal results so ultimately decided cracking the good olde boy network and their obfuscation, unintentional or intentional, was stronger than the amount of time i wished to expend for the ROI to satisfy my curiosity itch.

    now the NCDoJ was quite open about freely providing information but i discerned you have to be quite narrow on the request.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-25-2015 at 10:41 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    When will the investigation will be finished and the their findings made public?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    When will the investigation will be finished and the their findings made public?
    You're assuming they'll do one.

    I've heard North Vegas police want between $5-40 for a FOIA (NORA, in Nevada) request, which seems like it's to stifle requests for info. Torn if I should take it that far or not. If it was me, heck yeah. I'm at least going to start directly emailing the brass I can find. Stupid work keeps me unable to use the phone all day or do other stuff.

    Open carry walk for sure.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    You're assuming they'll do one.

    I've heard North Vegas police want between $5-40 for a FOIA (NORA, in Nevada) request, which seems like it's to stifle requests for info. Torn if I should take it that far or not. If it was me, heck yeah. I'm at least going to start directly emailing the brass I can find. Stupid work keeps me unable to use the phone all day or do other stuff.

    Open carry walk for sure.
    pm inbound...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    I would request the "radio ticket" (it is NLVPD's equivalent to METRO'S CAD report. It will have the officers identity's, call nature if there was a complaint, disposition, etc. I am up for grilling in the park.

    Update: I found some notes, on requests, I have pasted the NLV stuff below.
    N. Las Vegas

    • Call NLV non emergency, or 311 and get transferred to NLV. Ask for records custodian, If Denise does not answer ask for her. (Denise Scarf)
    • Let the records custodian know you need a CAD, NLV also calls them "radio tickets" It seems like its a little different with NLV each time, be persistent, You are better off not telling them why you need it, they seem to ask that hoping to find a reason not to give it to you.
    Last edited by DON`T TREAD ON ME; 09-26-2015 at 09:16 PM.

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    Regular Member turborich's Avatar
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    Wait till after the 1st of October, then they will be able to be held accountable. At least a group or two people should go together, one OCing and one sitting at a distance to film the encounter as well. NLV will eventually learn and leave folks with guns alone. The officer's know the law, they are just pushing their weight around. I would like to say that Iv'e NEVER had one negative experience with Metro when it comes to OC or firearms in general. They know that if push comes to shove and one of us come upon an officer in trouble that we would help, at least I would.

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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turborich View Post
    Wait till after the 1st of October, then they will be able to be held accountable. At least a group or two people should go together, one OCing and one sitting at a distance to film the encounter as well. NLV will eventually learn and leave folks with guns alone. The officer's know the law, they are just pushing their weight around. I would like to say that Iv'e NEVER had one negative experience with Metro when it comes to OC or firearms in general. They know that if push comes to shove and one of us come upon an officer in trouble that we would help, at least I would.
    Can't speak to NLV by experience or observation...yet, but Metro, not so much as a whisper. Got some looks, but the girls on Fremont Street got more. Some police departments and cities are more professional than others unfortunately.

    Am I correct in observing that certain races get more breaks, while others get hassled, in NLV? That's the impression I got from various stories, instructors, and posts online.
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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    I sent this to the NLVPD email tonight. Let's see if I get a response.

    Regarding the Sept. 20 detention of an open carrier in Cheyenne Sports Complex:

    I recently emailed your office for comment regarding a citizen’s complaint that he was illegally detailed for openly carrying a handgun in a city park—something your office should be aware is protected by state law. As your office is also certainly aware, the city ordinances prohibiting such actions were recently repealed, as required by state law. In the time since I first published the article on my blog, I have learned more about such illegal detentions in your city that lead me to believe this is a pattern and practice, often based on nothing more than an undesirable person (usually race-based) is legally exercising their right to bear arms.

    This distresses me personally because I come from a law enforcement background and I’d like to believe that police are bigger than this sort of thing. Additionally, I have expended a lot of time and words to defending your city and department by arguing that these incidents haven’t happened in years. Clearly, I was wrong.

    One might say that this is tacit approval to these officers behaviors; that with the ‘right’ subject, in the ‘right’ circumstances, lying about the law and an illegal detention for the purposes of harassment. Business as usual all along? The ends justify the means? Tell me, I am wrong in my assumptions?

    I requested a comment nearly ten days ago and yet no response. Your department’s public disavowal of such behavior would go a long way in the mind of the Nevada gun community that your department does not approve of officers who behave in such illegal and unethical manner. Or if I have the facts wrong, the correct facts would be in order. I and the Clark County gun community would like an answer. If not, your silence will be as damning as any admission could be.
    Sorry, I'm not very good at organizing things. Plus I don't think it'll do much. I doubt they'd bother a bunch of white guys open carrying.
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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Got a response from the chief of NLVPD. It's on the blog, too marked up with formatting to reproduce here. Okay, I'm too lazy, but anyhow check it out.

    Kind of wondering how to work the activist journalist thing out. John and Ken from LA's KFI 640 AM are sorta my mold for reporting stuff that other's won't and pushing public officials. Better than the subtle coercion and manipulation of the MSM. At least I'm honest about my goals and in my reporting.
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    You'll never get an admission of any wrong doing. Even mentioning an internal investigation is about the best you can expect.
    Hoka hey

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    Got a response from the chief of NLVPD. It's on the blog, too marked up with formatting to reproduce here. Okay, I'm too lazy, but anyhow check it out...
    The quality of your walk and determination is made all the more powerful in light of the unapologetic attitude of the Chief.

    Good on you, but I stare down my nose (attempting to not say what I really want to say) at the Chief.

    Keep up the good work. As you continue to do more, your reputation will proceed you.

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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Thanks BB62!
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