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Thread: The Pope could have ended abortion in America -- and did not.

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    The Pope could have ended abortion in America -- and did not.

    Glenn Beck: ‘Pope could have ended abortion in America’ and he didn’t
    “The pope could have ended abortion in America yesterday,” Mr. Beck said on his show “The Glenn Beck Program” Friday night, Mediaite reported. “He could have stood in the well of the Senate and said, ‘I’m sorry. I know this is not my place. I’m not here to talk to you about politics. I’m here to talk to you about life, and you have the opportunity right now to end abortion.’”

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...tion-america-/

    The Catholic Church (the word means universal) in America is over, just like the GOP and for the same reasons - compromise is failure on the installment plan.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    America should stop citing to 'international law,' yet embrace appeals from a 'foreign religion?'
    http://hotair.com/archives/2015/09/1...her-countries/

    No wonder Republicans suck as bad as Democrats.
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 09-26-2015 at 02:18 PM.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Whats hilarious is Beck believes his own words...
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Whats hilarious is Beck believes his own words...
    As is wont to happen when one lives inside an echo chamber...

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Liberals work to further the liberal agenda. Liberalism is a religion. The liberal agenda is all that matters. Liberals will eat their own if one of their own threatens the liberal agenda.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    There are a couple of proven ways to reduce abortions. Legislation/laws against abortion is not one of them. Neither is the admonition of a church leader.
    Last edited by beebobby; 09-28-2015 at 09:25 AM.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    There are a couple of proven ways to reduce abortions. Legislation/laws against abortion is not one of them. Neither is the admonition of a church leader.
    abstinence has worked so well, huh!!

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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    In principle differentiate homicide from infantcide. Learn the Sorites paradox of the heap. Is killing a five year old a homicide? Is it still homicide killing a 4 y.o., a 3 y.o., 6 mo. old, ...
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    In principle differentiate homicide from infantcide. Learn the Sorites paradox of the heap. Is killing a five year old a homicide? (Yes) Is it still homicide killing a 4 y.o. (Yes), a 3 y.o. (Yes), 6 mo. old (Yes), ...
    The answer to all those is yes. Homicide is the killing of a person by another. Is throwing away an unused frozen embryo a homicide? Is wasting perfectly good sperm homicide (on a massive scale)? No, because these aren't people. They may be potential people under proper conditions.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    It seems the argument is a matter of location. Inside, death is a option, outside, death is not a option.

    Yet, citizens have been criminally charged with the death of the future citizen residing inside.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It seems the argument is a matter of location. Inside, death is a option, outside, death is not a option.

    Yet, citizens have been criminally charged with the death of the future citizen residing inside.
    But not because of legal right of choice by the mother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It seems the argument is a matter of location. Inside, death is a option, outside, death is not a option.

    Yet, citizens have been criminally charged with the death of the future citizen residing inside.
    Location is very important to those of the Jewish faith.
    "Halacha (Jewish law) does define when a fetus becomes a nefesh (person). "...a baby...becomes a full-fledged human being when the head emerges from the womb. Before then, the fetus is considered a 'partial life.' " 5 In the case of a "feet-first" delivery, it happens when most of the fetal body is outside the mother's body."

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_abor.htm

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    How would the poop/pope have any legal authority in this country to make laws?

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    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    But not because of legal right of choice by the mother.
    Liberal progressives always want to have it both ways...
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    Is wasting perfectly good sperm homicide (on a massive scale)? No, because these aren't people. They may be potential people under proper conditions.
    Obviously you don't follow religion.

    Wasted seed is a sin.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Liberals work to further the liberal agenda. Liberalism is a religion. The liberal agenda is all that matters. Liberals will eat their own if one of their own threatens the liberal agenda.
    Quote Originally Posted by the opposite opinion
    Conservatives work to further the Conservative agenda. Conservative-ism is a religion. The Conservative agenda is all that matters. Conservatives will eat their own if one of their own threatens the Conservative agenda.
    Two wrongs, don't make a right.
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 09-28-2015 at 06:54 PM.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    Obviously you don't follow religion. Wasted seed is a sin.
    A biblical citation, damnit!

    Catholic moral theologian Charles E. Curran stated "the fathers of the Church are practically silent on the simple question of masturbation". Mielke, Arthur J. (1995). "Chapter 4. Christian Perspectives on Sex and Pornography". Christians, Feminists, and the Culture of Pornography. Lanham, MD: University Press of America. p. 59. ISBN 9780819197658. OCLC 878553779.
    Patton, Michael S. (June 1985). "Masturbation from Judaism to Victorianism". Journal of Religion and Health (Springer Netherlands) 24 (2): 133–146. doi:10.1007/BF01532257. ISSN 0022-4197. Retrieved 12 November 2011. "Nevertheless, there is no legislation in the Bible pertaining to masturbation."
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It seems the argument is a matter of location. Inside, death is a option, outside, death is not a option.

    Yet, citizens have been criminally charged with the death of the future citizen residing inside.
    Using criminal charges to decide morality? Say it aint say OC.

    Well it may be wrong...I would never condone abortion. But I'm not sure enough to say it's my right to deploy force to stop them....
    Last edited by twoskinsonemanns; 09-29-2015 at 05:08 AM.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    A biblical citation, damnit!
    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis 38:9-10
    he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death
    And then there's Islam

    http://www.islamawareness.net/Sex/fatwa_sex_003.html
    some scholars hold the view that this habit (masturbation) falls under the category of those who seek fulfillment of their sexual desires outside the framework of marriage, and as such they are deemed transgressors. Those scholars put masturbation under the list of the forbidden categories of sexual fulfillment since it constitutes transgression of boundaries. This view is held by the Shafi`ites (followers of the Shafi`i school of Fiqh).
    That religious stuff is just... nuts.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    As is wont to happen when one lives inside an echo chamber...
    I echo that sentiment.....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_pro2a View Post
    Originally Posted by Genesis 38:9-10 he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death
    That religious stuff is just... nuts.
    Where is verse 9? That is the context that makes your excerpt a self-serving untruth. Genesis 38 proscribes coitus interruptus.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    There are a couple of proven ways to reduce abortions. Legislation/laws against abortion is not one of them. Neither is the admonition of a church leader.
    Really? Citations to back up this claim regarding the lack-of-effect of laws or social pressure to reduce abortions?

    So when a church leader admonishes his flock to be honest and provides examples, that does nothing to reduce shoplifting or corruption?

    In society, constraints on behavior can come from either internal controls, or from external controls. Teachings from clergy an an important part of helping many individuals form internal controls. Lacking these internal controls, our choices are either increased external controls, or a loss of civilization.

    According to this Wiki entry the incidence of abortions in the US jumped from 52 per 1,000 live births in 1970 per-Roe, to well over 300 in the late 70's. Notably, it was 1972 before SCOTUS rulings assured access to contraceptives (including "The Pill" oral contraceptive) nationwide for all adults. So despite first in history reliability in preventing unwanted pregnancy, abortion rates skyrocketed following Roe.

    In the last 20 years, abortion rates in this nation have declined from just over 300 per 1,000 live births to just over 200 per 1,000 live births.

    One side will note increased restrictions on elective abortions. The other will claim easier access to birth control.

    In either event, if we accept the risk of death from "back alley abortions" put forth by pro-abortion groups, and look at the number of deaths, it is clear that we had a lot fewer abortions each year pre-Roe than we have had post Roe. Obviously laws influence behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    But not because of legal right of choice by the mother.
    Someone on this forum is fond of a quote that says, in essence: "Those who use law to decide what is right and wrong, are themselves, morally bankrupt.

    At one time, owning a slave was the legal right of choice of white men residing in certain States.

    The only way to support elective abortion is to employ the same tactic used to support slavery: To ignore or deny the humanity of the victims.

    I have just enough Libertarianism left in me to not much care what a person (man or woman) does with "her" own body....so long as I don't have to pay for that choice or its consequences. I have enough morality to care very much what that person does with someone else's body and life....even if the victim's body temporarily resides indie the body of the mother.

    Subjects like these do very little good in advancing RKBA, while offering a lot of opportunity to drive wedges into the RKBA community.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

  23. #23
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    one of the main reasons abortion rates have declined over the last 25 years is not due to any type religious or moral change but rather the introduction in the early 70s of the morning after pill & further use of the cooper IUD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_contraception

    some just wait too long to administer the morning after meds and therefore must still endure the procedure.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Where is verse 9? That is the context that makes your excerpt a self-serving untruth. Genesis 38 proscribes coitus interruptus.
    Revisionist history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sex In The Middle Ages: 10 Titillating Facts You Wanted To Know But Were Afraid to Ask
    Peter Damian in his Book of Gommorah. Sodomy was defined as “acts against nature” and included the following: solitary masturbation, mutual masturbation
    http://www.oddee.com/item_96646.aspx
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    http://www.religioustolerance.org/masturba10a.htm
    Quote Originally Posted by History of church teachings,
    The Bible. Papal document: "Persona Humana"
    However, the Church placed much greater emphasis on masturbation later in its history. For example, Thomas Aquinas (circa 1225 to 1274 CE) is the most famous classical proponent of natural theology. He founded the Thomistic school of philosophy and is considered by many Catholics to be the Church's greatest theologian. 4 He taught that God designed the penis to insert sperm into a woman's vagina. He believed that any other use of the penis, except perhaps for urination is unnatural and a "grave offense to the sagacious plan" of God. So is any other destination for the sperm other than that that can lead to conception. This concept many sexual behaviors immoral: bestiality, anal sex, oral sex, masturbation, sex with a person of the same gender, femoral intercourse, etc.

    Alan Soble of The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy writes:

    "Aquinas's line of thought yields an anatomical criterion of natural and perverted sex that refers only to bodily organs and what they might accomplish physiologically and to where they are, or are not, put in relation to each other." 4

    The church has historically viewed sexuality as having been designed only for procreation. In recent decades, the unitive role that sexual behavior plays in strengthening the marriage bond has been acknowledged. Still, sexual acts that cannot lead to conception continue to be condemned as being against natural law. Also, the Church considers all sexual acts are a serious sin unless performed by one man and one woman who are married to each other, in which there is a possibility of conception. Masturbation meets these criteria for sinfulness.
    Remember, new Pope decries child molesters.... old Pope helped them hide.

    Times change. Revisionist history is used to trick the idiots.

    This is me, trying not to be jaded. :/
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 09-29-2015 at 12:01 AM.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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