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Thread: Southern NV open carry facebook have anything to do with this site?

  1. #1
    Regular Member turborich's Avatar
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    Southern NV open carry facebook have anything to do with this site?

    The reason I ask is because one of the moderators over at "Southern Nevada Open Carry" Facebook page is a complete ****** and is attempting to throw his weight around by telling people what they can or can't say and banning people from the group. Reminds me of the kid who always ran his mouth at school until somebody gave him a good whipping. Anyways, if they continue to treat people this way than the page will be non existent. There always has to be one guy hiding behind a keyboard who is a tough guy. Rant over...

  2. #2
    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Most of the traffic migrated from here to Facebook.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    It's actually been fairly dead around here after the Facebook thing took off. I just carry, the same as I have for the past 22 years. Not much to tell anyway. I don't know who's involved with Facebook, nor do I care.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    The Facebook page is ran by someone who was new on the board here. I have corrected then several times on issues we already tackled here. Pointed them here so that they can see the work already done. This is where I go when I need any advice or to discuss the law. The Facebook group is full of folks who seem a bit.... Off?

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    I tried the face book thing, It is full of misinformation, (almost like taking a class at the gun store lol) I gave it lots of thought before I abandoned the page. I concluded their was a fair probability that the problems (much like the gun store) are initiated by LEO's trying to control the opinions and set the mindset of gun owners.

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    I am on that Face Book site and here as well. There is some misinformation. I do my part hopefully help with the misinformation. However I am weak at it. I see issues and questions I know would have a good chance of getting answered here. I have many times encouraged them to post it here. It has only happed a few times where they did post and did get input. The Face book page is just like this one when Tim, Steve, Mac and so many I cannot remember started with 10 or so years back with the mission to teach. There were many hard headed posters that took several postings to get them squared away. Several years to build a standard on opencarry nv, Now there is another bunch on the open carry Face book that will be setting the example in the public eye representing all open carry persons.
    Open Carry Face Book page is another platform in need of good accurate info with over 400 members. The creator of the Face Book page started here because of what she saw and learned. It was Crafty Mom. I am going to encourage her to check out this thread. I hate to see such a powerful source of talent miss out on another opportunity to make a difference.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Craftymommy's Avatar
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    It was my husband and myself who started the Southern Nevada group. Yes I was new at the time but it was also a better platform for me to use over logging on to here. We have also acquired many members who would not have stumbled across this page like I did, so it does have its benefits.

    As to the issues and misinformation, we have quite a few knowledgeable admins in that group who also run many of the other groups in Nevada. We do our best to correct and head off any false information that is being suggested as we want people to be aware of what the laws are and the limitations that we have as well when it comes to carrying. As to an admin saying you can't say certain things... We are a family-friendly page so as a general rule there are things that will not be tolerated. Language being the biggest, bashing other people, giving false information, encouraging someone to commit a felony and so on will get you banned if you continue to do so after an admin talking to you.

    turborich I am not sure of your exact situation as I am not on 24/7 since I do have a family to care for. However if you were giving incorrect/false information or otherwise going against our basic guidelines to follow. Then yes you will have an admin talk to you and possibly ban you if you continue those actions.

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    This forum requires someone who makes a claim to cite their source. The facebook page to my knowledge does not require a cite. The end result is ridicules claims, (sometimes by the admins,) Who cite their background/experience as their cite, when a cite is requested, Their buddy's all like their misinformation post, to make it appear valid. When I or another, post the federal, or state law cite that clearly shows the "blue click" to be inaccurate, the whole thread accurate info and all, disappears. "POOF"

    It is easy to see the agenda driven posters on the page, The same ones are prevalent on the buy and sell pages as well accusing people of having illegal gear, and claiming they alert the "authority's" when they don't like the person or feel their equipment is not legal. They sit in judgement of who they feel is "qualified to buy a firearm, and who is not. It would not be a surprise to find someone who has gone to jail or worse over the misinformation perpetuated on the open carry fb page. I truly hope it gets cleaned up, as of now, it demonstrates many undesirable high schoolish (sp) tendency's.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    What's funny is that in a few weeks' time, one of y'all is going to ask me again: "Hey, Mac, how come you aren't on Facebook?"
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Craftymommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    This forum requires someone who makes a claim to cite their source. The facebook page to my knowledge does not require a cite. The end result is ridicules claims, (sometimes by the admins,) Who cite their background/experience as their cite, when a cite is requested, Their buddy's all like their misinformation post, to make it appear valid. When I or another, post the federal, or state law cite that clearly shows the "blue click" to be inaccurate, the whole thread accurate info and all, disappears. "POOF"

    .
    We actually do require the law to be posted when someone starts making claims about certain things. When a person cannot back up what they are claiming, if they continue arguing an invalid point after being requested to cite their source, they are then removed. A recent case was in regards to carrying at the DMV. A person could not cite where it was illegal to open carry there and he was removed from the page because he continued arguing about it. We do not allow false information of unbacked claims to to stay on our page.

    As to the admins, we do cite the NRS as needed. So I am not sure what groups you have been involved in but it wasn't ours or any other the others that have the same admins.
    Last edited by Craftymommy; 09-29-2015 at 12:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    What's funny is that in a few weeks' time, one of y'all is going to ask me again: "Hey, Mac, how come you aren't on Facebook?"
    Not me I know better.

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    I am done with them now as well. Too many of them seem to think its a great thing the govt can make us pay for a CCW. With idiots like that we are never going to Constitutional carry and we will wind up with UBC.

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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    I try to keep the things I say that might offend people to a minimum, but I need to express this.

    Facebook probably is the number one reason why OC seems to be spreading like wildfire in Southern Nevada, but that was all groundwork laid by people here. It's not about which forum you use, but it's about what you do with whichever one you use.

    My own personal beef is that I feel there are some who don't like what I've done with NevadaCarry.org. I try and post helpful links, ones that cite information correctly and link to documentation, but a few admins shut it down. The personal beefs that have come up have turned me off certain groups, friends in them or not. I feel that certain people are 'jealous' of what I've done and posting to spread information about it. Either that or they think I'm making lots of money off the ads. Ha! I think I made a great resource and just want to get the word out.

    I don't know, but there really needs to be a vibrant discussion about what goes on and activism efforts which I think have petered out over the years. Yes, there are meetups, but I see the old threads and it makes me wonder what happened. Well, we won, so I guess I answered that question.

    Pet Peeve: Meme photos being more popular than reading a detailed article with important info. 'Cause posting a photo with words on it is so much better than research, interviews, and doing stuff!
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    ...Too many of them seem to think it's a great thing the govt can make us pay for a CCW...
    We are indoctrinated early on (and mostly without malice) to value "membership" in things, especially when it came with a card. It was a great epiphany to realize that freedoms should be completely exempt.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post

    My own personal beef is that I feel there are some who don't like what I've done with NevadaCarry.org. I try and post helpful links, ones that cite information correctly and link to documentation, but a few admins shut it down.
    You have done some great work. I for one am happy to have you on our team. I am in and out of town over the next two weeks. After that though I need to tackle the Rainbow Library. Vernon(Merlin here) has agreed to go with me. I think making time that you could go would be great as well. They have made it clear that I will not be welcome. And well Oct is here soooooo maybe they need to lose some cash. Well its our (the Peoples) cash.

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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    You have done some great work. I for one am happy to have you on our team. I am in and out of town over the next two weeks. After that though I need to tackle the Rainbow Library. Vernon(Merlin here) has agreed to go with me. I think making time that you could go would be great as well. They have made it clear that I will not be welcome. And well Oct is here soooooo maybe they need to lose some cash. Well its our (the Peoples) cash.
    I'm going to have to drive all the way over there? Lol I'm in!
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    I can still remember getting active on the NevadaShooters forum back near its inception in 2008, having been on here first actually. I had been a member of Reno4x4 for a little bit before that, and TheFiringLine since around 2005. Having migrated from TFL to the more localized forums was great, but gaddam there was a lot of misinformation going around. It took years with people like Mac, myself, various others who actually comprehend how to read the NRS (which isn't hard), but around 2013 or so I noticed that a lot of the misinformation was finally stopping. Newbs were joining with "my buddy told me..." type posts far less often, people who "have a friend in the PD" were quickly learning the truth which presented with NRS citations. All seemed to be going well for educating folks, especially every two years when we have been winning more freedoms in the legislature (such as how we've gone from all guns listed on the CCW permits, to any revolver, to any revolver/any semi, to finally one handgun any handgun).

    Then FB groups started popping up.

    AND IT FEELS LIKE 2008 AGAIN.

    I think it was a guy from the Southern Nevada OC group who got into a Nevada OC group (yes, there are too many damned OC groups on FB): someone had asked because they heard it was legal to OC in a DMV. We The Forum here could easily and quickly agree that it is, and that NV OC group quickly pointed him in the right direction that it's not illegal, so therefore you can do it. Then Mr. ImAnInstructor shows up and calls it a crime to carry in the DMV. We tried to correct him, he argued, and I finally laid down a $100 offer if he could tell me which NRS prohibits OC in the DMV. He referenced a forum post on NevadaShooters, which resulted in him being wrong had he bothered to actually read it. When we corrected him yet again, he defaulted to a "well, it's different for you Reno guys, it's a crime at the Henderson DMV, I've got experience blah blah blah I know cops blah blah blah." He was completely unaware of preemption and argued with preemption facts when shown. That didn't go well for him and he ended up being booted for intentionally spreading misinformation and refusing to see facts.

    The whole point of my little rant is, that after having everything straightened out with everybody, here we go again with people intentionally spreading misinformation. And they're instructors at that. Instructors who would rather teach what they think and present those thoughts as law. I don't mind instructors having opinions. Last time I renewed my CCW, the Armed and Safe class at Scheels in Sparks gave a very legitimate teaching of the statutes, then pointed out that open carry was legal without permit even though they feel it is a bad idea. Fine, dandy, your opinions don't mean much to me but at least they were presented as opinions. It grinds my gears that we have gun owners who spread misinformation, at least those people we can usually quickly get tuned up and properly educated. But suddenly these idiot instructors teaching inaccurate laws are back, and gaddam that really pisses me off. Instructors intentionally teaching incorrectly should be sued. [/rant]
    Last edited by jfrey123; 10-05-2015 at 12:49 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Facebook is like a spaghetti western; a bunch of saloon girls, shoot'em ups and con-men. Any semblance of a brain or common sense need not post.

    I can't figure out why Facebook even exists....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craftymommy View Post
    We actually do require the law to be posted when someone starts making claims about certain things. When a person cannot back up what they are claiming, if they continue arguing an invalid point after being requested to cite their source, they are then removed. A recent case was in regards to carrying at the DMV. A person could not cite where it was illegal to open carry there and he was removed from the page because he continued arguing about it. We do not allow false information of unbacked claims to to stay on our page.

    As to the admins, we do cite the NRS as needed. So I am not sure what groups you have been involved in but it wasn't ours or any other the others that have the same admins.
    The Gentleman who started one of the FB pages you admin on, has been a guest in my home. I installed an ambidextrous slide lock safety on his 1911, among other things. While in the shop, we discussed extensively the birth of the page as well as the transformation. The agenda driven misinformation rose to the top of our conversation. My friend expressed sincere exasperation that his page was being run that way. He asked me for advice, regarding the issue. I volunteered to assist and corresponded with him by email for a couple months afterward.

    I started actively addressing the misinformation with the fb admins, starting with the NLV weapon in the car statute. When I correctly stated "NLV Muni court is a court of non record," a contested trial has no weight according to NRS, Requiring a "Trial De Nova"The admins and their "enforcers" Jumped on me high school style. When I posted the NRS, It was scoffed, dismissed as inaccurate, and taken down. I was threatened with expulsion from the page, and told to "behave myself by admin E.L.

    The one cite I did see in response to my post from an admin was hilarious. It was a Sheriffs and Chiefs situation, I don't recall the exact disagreement, however the best part was when the "Legal Expert" Admin responded with "It is obvious you have never read Stilwell V. Nevada Sheriffs and Chiefs." He did not produce a quote from the case. There was nothing in the case to support his claim. He was pathetically unaware, that not only had I read the case, I assembled the case, and I lived the case, My name is Stilwell, I sued the NSCA. R.R. made a gigantic fool of himself, citing my case without merit, or knowledge he was conversing with the plaintiff of the case he was using as a bluff. I kept the high ground, and never let on, who I was. I did laugh however.

    Sometimes there is nothing to cite, I brought up the well known (on here anyway) fact that CC is not legal even in your own bathroom without a permit. I was attacked again by the "Legal Expert" the admins and their enforcers. I was instructed to provide a law substantiating my claim. When I provided the NRS the "click" got nasty, saying it does not mention your house etc, I pointed out that your house was not listed in the exemptions, therefor it was included in the prohibition. They scoffed and made fun of my information deleting the citations, and after they played high school, the thread.

    There are many more incidences where people with valid points are abused. My son (who probably wont be on the page long since I revealed my name, lol) told me that a couple of days ago a Lady OC'er mentioned her dislike of a Meme posted by a admin, that she viewed as degrading to women. When she stood her ground after the usual barrage, the thread was removed. He looked in the members for her and she was gone.

    It is obvious that the fb OC pages have a large law enforcement presence I take no issue with anyone's involvement, but it seems odd how LEO's are prevented by their Dept. from OC out of uniform, yet feel the need to be so active in the OC community.

    A Phone call I had with one of the "enforcers" (K.E.)on the page was revealing. He told me that certain admins were on that page looking for any kind of violation they could find, or get a confession to (knowingly, or not) and reporting to the cops. He bragged about how many people that had been arrested (entrapped?) due to the page. He admitted they were all minor ticky-tac things. (Possibly CCW in your own home?)

    The last thing I am, is some dingbat dude who does not realize what fb page he is on. I think an apology fromCrafty mommy is due, as she claimed incorrectly, without facts, I was misleading this group about what page I was on, and whom I was talking to. This accusatory style of bullying is prevalent on fb. I wont even ask CM to cite the facts known to her that would lead her to believe I was on a different page, I know better.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post

    It is obvious that the fb OC pages have a large law enforcement presence I take no issue with anyone's involvement, but it seems odd how LEO's are prevented by their Dept. from OC out of uniform, yet feel the need to be so active in the OC community.
    I started a fazeboog page , in my neighborhood, just for OC. We do have a few LEOs on board, but mostly just folks. We use it as an informational and event forum. It works for us.
    https://www.facebook.com/Washington-...9858/timeline/
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Facebook is like a spaghetti western; a bunch of saloon girls, shoot'em ups and con-men. Any semblance of a brain or common sense need not post.

    I can't figure out why Facebook even exists....
    For the purpose of schlepping out spaghetti westerns, showing saloon girls, a stage for shoot 'em ups and for con-men to ply their wares...

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    Facebook is another walled-garden where the carrier or service provider has control over applications, content, and media, and restricts convenient access to non-approved applications or content.
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