Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 62

Thread: This is what can happen when you're UNarmed

  1. #1
    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Renton, Wa
    Posts
    662

    This is what can happen when you're UNarmed

    I got lucky this morning. As I am walking to the bus stop on the way to work (one car family and my employer prohibits firearms on the property, let alone in a backpack) I see two black guys beating up another black guy on the other end of the parking lot against a concrete wall; I saw a full body slam even and one guy was egging the other guy on. I keep walking on the sidewalk and I reach into my pocket to grab my phone so I can call the police. The 'egger' sees me with my phone in hand and waves me to keep moving and shouts "keep movin bro, just keep movin." Defenseless and with no reliable means of escape, I pick up my pace to a jog, put my phone back in my pocket, and leave. My stop wasn't far so I simply kept myself out of sight. As the bus pulls up, all three of these people move onto the sidewalk with one smaller black guy clearly trying to get away from the other two. He wants to get on the bus (I think) and the others won't let him. (I see this last part as I find a seat and the bus moves away.)

    I took the action I did for the simple reason that calling the police (and the response time required) would've put a big target on my chest.

    I can't afford to stand on principle regarding my employer so I follow the rules and Washington doesn't have a parking lot storage law - not that it would've mattered as I was on foot.

    Even if I was armed, I may have done the exact same thing. I may have called the cops once I was out of their line of sight, but I didn't want to put myself in a position where my gun may have needed to be used and I don't see myself as ultimately responsible for what happens to others.

    Still - it was rather unnerving not having the means to protect myself had things gone differently.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Louisville ky
    Posts
    101
    Not quite sure what I would have done either.

    If that guy cared about his own safety he would have been carrying. It's not up to me to help others because they choose to be defenseless
    Last edited by travr6; 09-29-2015 at 10:17 AM.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Carrying may not be the best answer for the OP or for the guy getting beaten up.

    For the OP - suppose he had managed to stop the beating. Then what? What's his obligation to the victim beyond that point? How does he safely withdraw if he has to wait for the bus?

    For the victim - something tells me that he might not have been a completely innocent party. I get the strong odor of lifestyle choices coming home to roost.

    Which brings me back to the OP - was the desire to intervene a knee-jerk response or had you covered some of the questions I raised?

    Comments are welcome - with the exception of "we are sheepdogs". It may be different for you but I don't carry in order to protect the rest of the world from the evil that's out there.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Louisville ky
    Posts
    101
    I choose to arm myself as to not be the guy getting beat up.
    Unsure how it would not be the best answer for guy getting beat up.

    You are probably correct in assuming poor lifestyle choices

  5. #5
    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    ADA County, ID
    Posts
    605
    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    I got lucky this morning. As I am walking to the bus stop on the way to work (one car family and my employer prohibits firearms on the property, let alone in a backpack) I see two black guys beating up another black guy on the other end of the parking lot against a concrete wall; I saw a full body slam even and one guy was egging the other guy on. I keep walking on the sidewalk and I reach into my pocket to grab my phone so I can call the police. The 'egger' sees me with my phone in hand and waves me to keep moving and shouts "keep movin bro, just keep movin." Defenseless and with no reliable means of escape, I pick up my pace to a jog, put my phone back in my pocket, and leave. My stop wasn't far so I simply kept myself out of sight. As the bus pulls up, all three of these people move onto the sidewalk with one smaller black guy clearly trying to get away from the other two. He wants to get on the bus (I think) and the others won't let him. (I see this last part as I find a seat and the bus moves away.)

    I took the action I did for the simple reason that calling the police (and the response time required) would've put a big target on my chest.

    I can't afford to stand on principle regarding my employer so I follow the rules and Washington doesn't have a parking lot storage law - not that it would've mattered as I was on foot.

    Even if I was armed, I may have done the exact same thing. I may have called the cops once I was out of their line of sight, but I didn't want to put myself in a position where my gun may have needed to be used and I don't see myself as ultimately responsible for what happens to others.

    Still - it was rather unnerving not having the means to protect myself had things gone differently.
    I always carried at work. A Ruger LCP concealed with an extra mag is easy to keep concealed during work unless you are a life guard or something that requires minimal clothing (don't ask don't tell policy on that one). My employer did not allow firearms, well to bad, I don't care what they like or not.
    I was shot at on the job once and that changed my whole viewpoint on being armed at all times. If I can't be armed I do not go there period. So I don't fly, go to states that prohibit carry and so on and so on.

  6. #6
    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Renton, Wa
    Posts
    662
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    For the OP - suppose he had managed to stop the beating. Then what? What's his obligation to the victim beyond that point? How does he safely withdraw if he has to wait for the bus?

    Which brings me back to the OP - was the desire to intervene a knee-jerk response or had you covered some of the questions I raised?
    My only thought was I thought about getting the person who was beaten up some help even if it was delayed. Even pulling out my phone to do that elicited a threat from the BG so due to the sudden potential risk, I simply walked away. I would have done the same thing if I was armed. The only concern I had was the threat could possibly have spread as there were multiple assailants. Since I had no safe way to withdraw, couldn't defend myself if it escalated, and it really wasn't any of my business, I got to as safe a place as I could until the bus showed up.

    Maybe I should have just ignored it.

    I also wanted to see if I could get a taser or stun gun since firearms are prohibited at my place of work, but alas their weapons policy includes electric weapons as well. I can get a small can of pepper spray
    Last edited by acmariner99; 09-29-2015 at 12:48 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Renton, Wa
    Posts
    662
    I think maybe because even though I wasn't involved and had no desire to get involved, the fact that I was defenseless and the threat could have turned against me is why I am riled up and why I think I might have called for help given better circumstances. Since merely reaching for my phone caused a ruckus, I backed off ... quickly.

    Tidbits - the assailants never got inside 20 feet until the bus pulled up. I was never in danger of imminent violence. There was also a car that was oddly parked so I had an inkling that more was going on that I could see.

  8. #8
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,881
    little of column A and a little of B and just a smidgen of C:
    A. i agree with Skid, as told it does definitively sound like life style choices and perhaps a business deal gone awry.
    B. Trav ~ your presume the individual getting a whooop'g have the financial resources to obtain a firearm.
    C. OP, sorry you didn't follow your conscience to notify the nice LEs about the assault ~ even after you were safely entrenched on the bus...this way if they find a battered body across town they at least know where the beating took place!

    and the reason you are riled up could possibly be listed in C above.

    btw, i steadfastly agree, i carry a firearm to provide defense until i and my loved ones reach safety, but i always a good witness against the aggressor(s) so they are held accountable for their actions.

    ad nauseam: i report even if i know the nice LEs won't do a thing...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-29-2015 at 04:00 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Louisville ky
    Posts
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    B. Trav ~ your presume the individual getting a whooop'g have the financial resources to obtain a firearm.
    Pretty sure he does. Even poor people in America are doing well enough to have an XBOX, fridge, microwave, etc...
    Hell the cars in the projects are nicer than what I drive.
    Unless he was a homeless person my guess is he can afford a gun.

    Saw a homeless guy begging for money yesterday in a pair of Jordans, wearing a necklace, and smoking a cigarette.

    The poorest neighborhoods in nearly every big city are where most of the firearm related deaths occur.
    Last edited by travr6; 09-29-2015 at 04:04 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,881
    Quote Originally Posted by travr6 View Post
    Pretty sure he does. Even poor people in America are doing well enough to have an XBOX, fridge, microwave, etc...
    Hell the cars in the projects are nicer than what I drive.
    Unless he was a homeless person my guess is he can afford a gun.

    Saw a homeless guy begging for money yesterday in a pair of Jordans, wearing a necklace, and smoking a cigarette.

    The poorest neighborhoods in nearly every big city are where most of the firearm related deaths occur.
    you are correct i perhaps used the wrong term...financial...should have stated able to legally obtain a firearm...

    and you are just now coming to the realization beggars are homeless?

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    47
    So the basic consensus is 'be out for just yourself and loved ones, let the rest of humanity be damned'? When did we become to scared to stand up for what is right. I'm not saying that the OP should have engaged directly, but now we are too afraid to even call the police? How is head down, just shuffle on any better than the people that just record something bad happening when they could help?

    Everyone has to do what they feel is right for them, but...

  12. #12
    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Posts
    604
    In a situation like that, I'd use my body camera. The same stuff we use to record our interactions with LEO's and keep them honest can be used to help them in a situation like this. If you have one, anyways. I have mine on me all the time, even if I'm not carrying.

    In the scenario described by the OP, after getting out of the immediate threat like he did, it would be simple to call the police from work and have them meet you there. If you had the camera, you turn over a copy of the vid and that makes DAMN SURE the bg's are headed to a cell.
    Guard with jealous attention the public liberty.
    Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel.
    Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force.
    Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
    -Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratification Convention, June 5, 1788

  13. #13
    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Renton, Wa
    Posts
    662
    Quote Originally Posted by tcbrad98 View Post
    So the basic consensus is 'be out for just yourself and loved ones, let the rest of humanity be damned'? When did we become to scared to stand up for what is right. I'm not saying that the OP should have engaged directly, but now we are too afraid to even call the police? How is head down, just shuffle on any better than the people that just record something bad happening when they could help?

    Everyone has to do what they feel is right for them, but...
    That is a bit extreme don't you think? Recording or calling for help had a reasonable likelihood of me getting a whoopin. I would've had more options (perhaps more confidence) had I had my sidearm with me. Still, the most I would've done is call the police from a safe distance. I have other priorities thanks.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by tcbrad98 View Post
    So the basic consensus is 'be out for just yourself and loved ones, let the rest of humanity be damned'?
    As concerns me, a resounding yes. I am not being paid to be anybody else's bodyguard. But just as with all other absolutes there are exceptions. I've got a sort-of list of what they are and for the most part that list is "controlled" by the question of what I can do to remove the victim from the threat as opposed to just (merely) stopping the threat momentarily. And yes, there is always going to be the issue of whether or not my intervening puts me in danger.

    When did we become to scared to stand up for what is right. I'm not saying that the OP should have engaged directly, but now we are too afraid to even call the police?
    Most smart phones, including the flip style, have an "EMERGENCY" button that dials 911. Most (we know the stories of when they do not) PDs follow up on 911 calls when the caller does not respond to the dispatcher. E911 GPS location has been mandatory for years. My guess is that a significant number of people are not aware of that feature on their phone.

    How is head down, just shuffle on any better than the people that just record something bad happening when they could help?

    Everyone has to do what they feel is right for them, but...
    With all due respect, please explain how you, in the exact same circumstances as the OP, would "help".

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  15. #15
    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Renton, Wa
    Posts
    662
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    As concerns me, a resounding yes. I am not being paid to be anybody else's bodyguard. But just as with all other absolutes there are exceptions. I've got a sort-of list of what they are and for the most part that list is "controlled" by the question of what I can do to remove the victim from the threat as opposed to just (merely) stopping the threat momentarily. And yes, there is always going to be the issue of whether or not my intervening puts me in danger.



    Most smart phones, including the flip style, have an "EMERGENCY" button that dials 911. Most (we know the stories of when they do not) PDs follow up on 911 calls when the caller does not respond to the dispatcher. E911 GPS location has been mandatory for years. My guess is that a significant number of people are not aware of that feature on their phone.



    With all due respect, please explain how you, in the exact same circumstances as the OP, would "help".

    stay safe.
    +1 - my sentiments exactly skid. I would also like to know how I could have "helped." Use the exact same variables - I have a phone (with camera) and nothing else. No gun or other defense tool. Bear in mind the act of pulling out my phone elicited a response from the BG. Pray tell - I am curious!

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Philipsburg, Montana
    Posts
    3,137
    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    I got lucky this morning.

    Even if I was armed, I may have done the exact same thing..........
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    btw, i steadfastly agree, i carry a firearm to provide defense until i and my loved ones reach safety, but i (am) always a good witness against the aggressor(s) so they are held accountable for their actions.
    I am "one of those people". The ones who run to the gunfire instead of away. bad guys are cowards. They run away and shoot themselves over and over. I am old. I am impatient and do not tolerate that kind of cr@p when it is shoved in my face. I understand your employers wishes. I have always considered my employers wishes. That said, I still do not go unarmed into "indian country".

    Just bought another little gem that looks like this. Goes with almost any attire with the exception of swimwear. As a disclaimer, I do not in any way suggest or recommend NOT following all the rules and regulations of daily life. Your choice.

    Attachment 12773
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    47

    This is what can happen when you're UNarmed

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    With all due respect, please explain how you, in the exact same circumstances as the OP, would "help".

    stay safe.
    A call to 911 once in the bus, relaying all the pertinent details, description of those involved, etc.

    How hard is it to place a phone call once safely on the bus?

    I didn't say that the OP should get directly involved, I don't know the particulars of their physical limitations, training , and so forth. I'm not even saying that I would have gotten directly involved either, just that there sounds like there were options.
    Last edited by tcbrad98; 09-30-2015 at 12:06 AM.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    tcbrad98 -

    You and I seem to be on the same page. All I did was suggest that there is a way to call 911 at/near the scene without drawing undo attention by holding the phone up to your face.

    Those of us of a certain age or state of medical frailty may be wearing one of those "Help! I've fallen and can't get up" devices. They are usually worn at just the right spot to simulate the clutching of pearls. It's a two-step process to get to 911 but it is an option for one of us. I have used mine to call about an auto wreck and about some fool bicycle racers riding in a pack in the travel lane on a limited access highway. Both times the delay in contacting and then relaying info to 911 was less than 2 minutes.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I am "one of those people". ...
    I'm sure your attorney's accountant approves.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  20. #20
    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ashland, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    613
    When I push the volume up button on the side of my phone, it sounds the ringtone.

    I used that feature one time to call on a fight in progress when they spotted me pulling my phone out.

    I simply pushed the button and pretended to answer a call while also pushing the quick emergency dial button.

    The guys beating up the other guy thought I answered a call and continued the beat down as I rounded the corner and told 911 what was happening.

    A police car passed going in that direction as I reached my truck.

    And, I never considered pulling my firearm.


    Sent from my Sony Xperia using Tapatalk 4

  21. #21
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    996
    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    I always carried at work. A Ruger LCP concealed with an extra mag is easy to keep concealed during work unless you are a life guard or something that requires minimal clothing (don't ask don't tell policy on that one). My employer did not allow firearms, well to bad, I don't care what they like or not.
    The worst that happens if you get caught with the gun is you get fired. What's the worst that can happen if you really need that gun and don't have it?

    Seems like the wise choice to me.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    missouri
    Posts
    497
    Quote Originally Posted by tcbrad98 View Post
    So the basic consensus is 'be out for just yourself and loved ones, let the rest of humanity be damned'? When did we become to scared to stand up for what is right. I'm not saying that the OP should have engaged directly, but now we are too afraid to even call the police? How is head down, just shuffle on any better than the people that just record something bad happening when they could help?

    Everyone has to do what they feel is right for them, but...
    you know, it could be argued that, in a way he is standing up for what's right by telling the guy getting a whoopin to take care of his own security, and well being, since it is his own responsibility, not the OP's or anyone elses.

    I carry for me and my family only, had I saw this, and had a cell phone, I would've notified local PD, but not intervened, although I do not generally fear people cause of my physical capabilities and attributes. but 2 on one is bad odds in any circumstance. and with a car parked funny, who knows if there is any backup for the guys whoopin on the victim??

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Nothern KY
    Posts
    201
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Most smart phones, including the flip style, have an "EMERGENCY" button that dials 911. Most (we know the stories of when they do not) PDs follow up on 911 calls when the caller does not respond to the dispatcher. E911 GPS location has been mandatory for years. My guess is that a significant number of people are not aware of that feature on their phone.

    stay safe.
    I just wanted to take a moment to clarify on these statements (This applies to cellphones, not landlines). Many agencies are not staffed enough to follow up on hangups from cell phones. If the dispatcher hears something in the background that would indicate a problem, they will follow up. Otherwise, the massive number of cellphones hangups make it prohibitive to follow up on all of them. Massive is no exaggeration. SOME agencies are large enough that they have a dedicated person to do these followups. This number of hangups have grown now that most smart phones will call 911 from the lock screen. You used to be able to lock your phone to prevent all dial outs. The other issue is now many people allow a child to play with a charged cell phone. ALL cell phones MUST be able to dial 911, even if it is deactivated.

    The other point is that while most cell companies are technically Phase 2 compliant (GPS location), it is no where near perfect. Most cell phones report as Phase 1 (shows the cell tower the phone hit) initially and have to be updated to get the phone to report as Phase 2. Depending on how quickly the caller disconnects, Phase 1 may be all the dispatcher gets. Even Phase 2 is not that exact. It is continually improving, but not accurate enough to bet your life on it.

    At the very least, if you or someone else needs help, give your location at least twice before hanging up and indicate what is going on. That is ONLY if you are UNABLE to remain on the phone. Just my little PSA because I see way too much misinformation on the subject in media, and even from the Police/Fire departments. I think it all stems from wanting systems to look better than they are in some cases. In others, the people reporting on how the system works don't actually have true working knowledge of the system. They know what is is supposed to do as opposed to real world results.
    Last edited by willy1094; 09-30-2015 at 08:47 PM.

  24. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    king county
    Posts
    162
    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    +1 - my sentiments exactly skid. I would also like to know how I could have "helped." Use the exact same variables - I have a phone (with camera) and nothing else. No gun or other defense tool. Bear in mind the act of pulling out my phone elicited a response from the BG. Pray tell - I am curious!
    You may wish to carry both a loud whistle and pepper spray. . . . though I don't remember if your employer has some policy against pepper spray. You might have had the whistle on a lamphere or whatever it is that goes around your neck . . . and then, when witnessing the violence, turn away slightly so as to obscure the view of the evil-doers of you and blow the whistle loudly before the evil-doer gets to making his threats against you.

    There are whistles for sale from amazon that supposedly can be heard from quite a distance . . . and any other bystanders and/or police might come running or driving by when they hear the whistle.

    Since I have been threatened repeatedly and have not taken the time and trouble to carry firearms . . . and since most of the threats and assaults against me were made while I was walking at Greenlake in minimal clothing and it might be counterproductive for me personally to carry a firearm in the circumstances in which some of the public has doubts about my mental stablity anyway, I do routinely carry pepper spray and I do at times while clothed wear an empty holster, but not carrying.

    However, I can mention that there are times in which I am not very inclined to back down, flee or change my behavior as a result of being threatened . . .

    What would I have done if a large black man who was engaging in violence or threats then began to threaten me for pulling out a cell phone and calling 911?
    I don't know . . . but Martin Luther had a small section of his writings on the subject of why Christians should bear and use arms . . . and the reason he gave is that it is for the benefit of society . . .

    Would I risk my life or well-being to make a call to 911 while witnessing violence? It is the kind of thing I might do, at least at times, knowing that I might help take out of circulation a guy bent on violence . . .

    Where I am from, we will jump on a evil-doing shooter . . . and let God figure things out and straighten things out . . . At least some Christians believe that God has the will and power to make things up to those who suffer wrongly while doing good such as stopping a shooter or stopping an evil-doer engaged in violence . . .

    Of course, there is the question of prudence, and I don't know all the answers and I don't even claim to know the answers for others . . . It is simply that, as a result of my spiritual background, beliefs and inclination, I'd put myself in front of some evil-doing shooters if it seemed as if good might result from it. . . and let God figure out how to straighten things out if I am dead before he might have been thinking otherwise.
    Last edited by zaitz; 10-03-2015 at 11:58 PM.

  25. #25
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Lacey, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,991
    Quote Originally Posted by zaitz View Post

    Since I have been threatened repeatedly and have not taken the time and trouble to carry firearms . . . and since most of the threats and assaults against me were made while I was walking at Greenlake in minimal clothing and it might be counterproductive for me personally to carry a firearm in the circumstances in which some of the public has doubts about my mental stablity anyway, I do routinely carry pepper spray and I do at times while clothed wear an empty holster, but not carrying.
    If your safety is not important to you, then I understand not taking the "time or trouble" to provide for your safety. I know, just too inconvenient. Just keep blindly going into situations where your ability to defend yourself is minimal. I watch the 5 pm news, and from what you said I'm sure to see a story about your early demise. RIP in advance.
    Having fire extinguishers, and smoke alarms in my house were pretty inconvenient too.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
    http://nwfood.shelfreliance.com

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •