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This is what can happen when you're UNarmed

willy1094

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
201
Location
Nothern KY
If your safety is not important to you, then I understand not taking the "time or trouble" to provide for your safety. I know, just too inconvenient. Just keep blindly going into situations where your ability to defend yourself is minimal. I watch the 5 pm news, and from what you said I'm sure to see a story about your early demise. RIP in advance.
Having fire extinguishers, and smoke alarms in my house were pretty inconvenient too.

Perhaps is decision not to carry is a sound one. MAYBE, the inconvenience is something closer to inability to carry a firearm. Just saying based on the bolded section below...

Since I have been threatened repeatedly and have not taken the time and trouble to carry firearms . . . and since most of the threats and assaults against me were made while I was walking at Greenlake in minimal clothing and it might be counterproductive for me personally to carry a firearm in the circumstances in which some of the public has doubts about my mental stablity anyway, I do routinely carry pepper spray and I do at times while clothed wear an empty holster, but not carrying.

...I don't know the background of that statement though. If there are truly stability issues, I completely support the person's decision not to carry a firearm.
 

Phoenix David

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
605
Location
Glendale, Arizona, USA
The worst that happens if you get caught with the gun is you get fired. What's the worst that can happen if you really need that gun and don't have it?

Seems like the wise choice to me.

Just to play devils advocate, lets say you have a decent job making say 80K a year, and you been with that company for 10 years do you really want to put it all on the line? There are other options.
 

Nang pa

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2015
Messages
64
Location
United States
Just to play devils advocate, lets say you have a decent job making say 80K a year, and you been with that company for 10 years do you really want to put it all on the line? There are other options.
How much will you get paid after you're killed?

It's all about risk management. Even in the same circumstances we aren't all going to agree. I'm amung those who truly cannot afford to lose my job and carry my gun at work knowing I'll get fired if found out. There are only bad choices to select from.
 
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Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
I used to carry right into my office, secretly in my back pack.
I carried just enough "junk" that they never wanted to see more than a couple of items that seemed to account for most of the volume used.

No metal detectors just set my pack down on the edge of my work area and no-one messed with it.
What you do is what you choose.

I am all for a law requiring anti-gun businesses be forced to proved lockers for those who carry and do not use their own car to get to work. UPS and BOEING being the two main ones in my scope of intent there.
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
The worst that happens if you get caught with the gun is you get fired. What's the worst that can happen if you really need that gun and don't have it?

Seems like the wise choice to me.

What is the relative risk of each? That depends a lot on the work environment doesn't it?

Methinks the pizza delivery driver has a pretty low risk of having his gun discovered (before he needs it) and a fairly high risk of needing it compared to the life guard at the neighborhood swimming pool.

Furthermore, what is your ability to get a new job with comparable income/benefits if you get fired "for cause" (violating company policy) from the current job?

Assuming no violation of law, I won't fault anyone who chooses to discretely carry in violation of some company policy. But assuming the absence of some unusual risk, neither will I fault anyone who chooses to abide company policy while taking other measures for self defense while on the job.

Many employers who have "no guns/weapons" policies don't seem to care much about Mace/Pepper Spray-- after all such sprays are rather popular among the fairer gender and the gun haters. I've never seen anyone get upset about a letter opener, even if it were substantial enough to make a decent edged weapon. A baseball bat doesn't look much like a weapon if a glove is kept next to it. And some fairly decent knives can be carried as "utility items" in most businesses that ban weapons. None are my ideal replacement for a gun. But depending on the employer, some of them can mitigate the risk of being "defenseless" without increasing the risk of being jobless.

Charles
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
I am all for a law requiring anti-gun businesses be forced to proved lockers for those who carry and do not use their own car to get to work. UPS and BOEING being the two main ones in my scope of intent there.

That would be a great start, right after Parking Lot Preemption that prohibits firing employees for having a legal gun inside their private car parked on company property.

But I've decided that ultimately, I want to see the lawful possession of firearms protected under anti-discrimination or workplace safety laws exactly as we currently protect the right of employees to wear religious garb, require businesses to abide by building safety codes, and otherwise impose regulations to protect employee health and safety.

I can think of a very few locations where the presence of a gun actually creates a material hazard: Aluminum processing plant, near MRI machines or similar high power magnetic fields, inside prisons or secure mental hospitals. Such locations should be required to provide real and meaningful security and lockers. All other locations should be required to respect our right to an effective defense just as they are required to respect our right to worship (or not) as we see fit, to vote as we see fit, and so on.

Charles
 

Phoenix David

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
605
Location
Glendale, Arizona, USA
I am all for a law requiring anti-gun businesses be forced to proved lockers for those who carry and do not use their own car to get to work. UPS and BOEING being the two main ones in my scope of intent there.

So is an intrusive law that you agree with OK?

Why not nationwide requirement that any firearm owner have a no less than 10 gauge safe bolted to the floor of their house and that all guns not in use must be stored in them?

How about the workers of UPS and Boeing organize and bring pressure on management to do it with out a government mandate.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
So is an intrusive law that you agree with OK?

Why not nationwide requirement that any firearm owner have a no less than 10 gauge safe bolted to the floor of their house and that all guns not in use must be stored in them?

How about the workers of UPS and Boeing organize and bring pressure on management to do it with out a government mandate.
My compromise would be this some what as follows.

Any company, business, establishment, that hires anyone one either directly or indirectly and makes part of that hiring a requirement to be unarmed/disarmed while working and/or while on company property, shall be held at a minimum of 400% liable for the peronal safety of all workers/hired from the point that they step out of their homes to travel to work until the point that they make it back into their homes. If at anytime/any point the worker/hired is injured due in any part to the fact they were unarmed/disarmed because of a company/business/or any other polic(ies)(y).

In short if you follow the company rules and are harmed due in anypart to following the disarming rules, the company has to pay a minimum of 4times damages.

.......

Would that be acceptable?

I figure 10x damages if it happens while on the clock.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
 
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Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Asking for more laws is asking for more government violence.
Corporations only exist with government permission.

I am all for attacking corporations because the courts claim that they have rights, but cannot be seen.

If those places were not incorporated then and only then would I see a private property issue come into play and would still demand that they suffer liability (consequences) for their bad policies.

Why should I have to wave any rights at any price?

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Corporations only exist with government permission.

I am all for attacking corporations because the courts claim that they have rights, but cannot be seen.

If those places were not incorporated then and only then would I see a private property issue come into play and would still demand that they suffer liability (consequences) for their bad policies.

Why should I have to wave any rights at any price?

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

Corporations would exist in another form even without the government.

This is akin to saying people only have a vested interest in working with each other in a partnership that limits liability because of the government.

So do away with laws that protect and create moral hazards for the corporation. Don't ask for more violence.
 

Jeff Hayes

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
2,569
Location
Long gone
Corporations only exist with government permission.

I am all for attacking corporations because the courts claim that they have rights, but cannot be seen.

If those places were not incorporated then and only then would I see a private property issue come into play and would still demand that they suffer liability (consequences) for their bad policies.

Why should I have to wave any rights at any price?

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

You do not have any rights when it comes to corporations you only have rights that protect you from the government not anyone else. Come to my house and try to talk about something I don't want you to talk about, come to my house and try to practice your religion.

Corporations are made up of people and those people do not waive their private property rights just because they band together with other people for a common cause.

You are undermining freedom by expecting/demanding a corporation to act like the government is supposed to. We have taken too many rights away from businesses already. If you do not understand this you do not understand freedom, sorry.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
You do not have any rights when it comes to corporations you only have rights that protect you from the government not anyone else. Come to my house and try to talk about something I don't want you to talk about, come to my house and try to practice your religion.

Corporations are made up of people and those people do not waive their private property rights just because they band together with other people for a common cause.

You are undermining freedom by expecting/demanding a corporation to act like the government is supposed to. We have taken too many rights away from businesses already. If you do not understand this you do not understand freedom, sorry.
If corporations are made up of people then why do these people never have to appear in court to defend the actions of a corporation? Why does a corporation never goto prison? Why can a corporation make (political) donations separately from these people you claim make up a corporation? Corporations only exist on paper, unless you can show me a real flesh and blood corporation that I can slay. Since a corporation is an a imaginary construct it has no rights property or otherwise. You as flesh and blood do have rights.

Please send me a photo of a corporation and proof that a corporation has been incarcerated otherwise admit that your argument is false.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
 

rscottie

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
608
Location
Ashland, Kentucky, USA
If corporations are made up of people then why do these people never have to appear in court to defend the actions of a corporation? Why does a corporation never goto prison? Why can a corporation make (political) donations separately from these people you claim make up a corporation? Corporations only exist on paper, unless you can show me a real flesh and blood corporation that I can slay. Since a corporation is an a imaginary construct it has no rights property or otherwise. You as flesh and blood do have rights.

Please send me a photo of a corporation and proof that a corporation has been incarcerated otherwise admit that your argument is false.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
Don Blankenship would beg to differ.

He is currently on trial in WV due to the explosion into the Upper Big Branch Mine that killed a bunch of miners.

He likely did not know what the guys on the ground were doing as he was not there.

They are holding him liable for safety violations that they claim led to the explosion. Some experts claim it was a lightning strike on an air shaft that caused the explosion as there was lightening that day at the time it happened.

Sent from my Sony Xperia using Tapatalk 4
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Don Blankenship would beg to differ.

He is currently on trial in WV due to the explosion into the Upper Big Branch Mine that killed a bunch of miners.

He likely did not know what the guys on the ground were doing as he was not there.

They are holding him liable for safety violations that they claim led to the explosion. Some experts claim it was a lightning strike on an air shaft that caused the explosion as there was lightening that day at the time it happened.

Sent from my Sony Xperia using Tapatalk 4
So when is the corporation going to be on trial?

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
He is on trial as CEO of the corporation as the prosecution claims he should have known what was going on because he was CEO.

Sent from my Sony Xperia using Tapatalk 4

I am talking about the corporation its self. Not some CEO.
Not that I am unhappy that a CEO is being punished, but the CEO did not do it the "corporation" did it.

When will a CORPORATION hang? The CEO does not own the property the property is owned by the CORPORATION. Why can you not understand the difference?
 
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