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Thread: Retention or no Retention?

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    Newbie nshaw65's Avatar
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    Retention or no Retention?

    I want to switch from CC to OC. My question is do most of you guys use a retention holster or not. If so, what level of retention do you use?

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    Welcome to OCDO. There are many discussions of retention here, try searching for them.

    I OC in a Blackhawk SERPA with a trigger guard latch, adjustable friction and straight pull.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 09-30-2015 at 06:59 AM.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I use retention.

    The choice is up to you and your comfort level. I wager activity would be a consideration too.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    welcome...

    I am not one to go rolling on the ground, running or chasing after, nor jogging with my firearm so i am quite comfortable with friction holding my SD tool in place in its, LEATHER only thank you, holster on the outside of my pants on my belt. (caveat i do have a canvas shoulder rig i wear w/o the rig strapped to my belt, while driving long distances.

    now, understand the purchase of the right holster which suits your SD needs takes a lifetime to satisfy.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-30-2015 at 10:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    welcome...

    I am not one to go rolling on the ground, running or chasing after, nor jogging with my firearm so i am quite comfortable with friction holding my SD tool in place in its, LEATHER only thank you, holster on the outside of my pants on my belt. (caveat i do have a canvas shoulder rig i wear w/o the rig strapped to my belt, while driving long distances.

    now, understand the purchase of the right holster which suits your SD needs takes a lifetime to satisfy.

    ipse
    I agree with solus on all points here.

    Pay particular attention to the last paragraph. Just about anyone who's been carrying for a while will have a drawer/container full of holsters that 'didn't work' for them for some reason or another.

  6. #6
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    My IWB holster has a thumb-break strap. My OWB holster is a Blackhawk Serpa with trigger-area latch. IMO opinion, the first level of retention is excellent situational awareness.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Most times the only retention on my holsters is leather lace thong, like on western holsters. My only concern is keeping the gun from falling out and the thong performs well, and comes off with a flick of the thumb, faster than thumb break. Some holsters have no retention at all, if I use a simple belt slide, they tend to be adjustable by belt tension. We have a couple fobus holsters that are friction only, and work well. If I am carrying the GP100, I am using a DH border patrol holster which has a thumb strap. Those holsters were made to be fast, and there is little friction to keep a gun in the holster.

    Whatever you use you need to practice with an unloaded gun with each at a safe place. I repeat practice with only an unloaded gun. Make sure you check the gun to make sure it is unloaded each time.

    Did I mention practicing holster skills only with an unloaded gun.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Carrying in a crowed without some sort of retention has always bothered me.

    And like WalkingWolf the only retention on my OWB leather holster is a leather lace thong. I carry a 38s steel snubby in that holster. And it is my favorite. I just bought a S&W – M&P shield. I carry it in a Blackhawk serpa. The reason for this is in the summer the gun can end-up laying against my skin. Steel against the skin is not good. The shield is stainless steel and polymer.

    What I don't like is even though the shield carries four more rounds it also weighs 3½ oz. more. I can feel that extra weight even though the footprint of both are about the same. I'm sure I'll get use to it.

    My M&P compact weighs 9¼ oz. more than my snubby. It's like carrying an anchor. I only carry it when I think it's necessary. More rounds is more weight. The way I look at it, is if I can't deal with the situation with five rounds then three to eights rounds more means I shouldn't have been at that place at that time anyway.

    There is always a compromise.

  9. #9
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    welcome...

    I am not one to go rolling on the ground, running or chasing after, nor jogging with my firearm so i am quite comfortable with friction holding my SD tool in place in its, LEATHER only thank you, holster on the outside of my pants on my belt.
    ipse
    +1
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Carrying in a crowed without some sort of retention has always bothered me.

    And like WalkingWolf the only retention on my OWB leather holster is a leather lace thong. I carry a 38s steel snubby in that holster. And it is my favorite. I just bought a S&W – M&P shield. I carry it in a Blackhawk serpa. The reason for this is in the summer the gun can end-up laying against my skin. Steel against the skin is not good. The shield is stainless steel and polymer.

    What I don't like is even though the shield carries four more rounds it also weighs 3½ oz. more. I can feel that extra weight even though the footprint of both are about the same. I'm sure I'll get use to it.

    My M&P compact weighs 9¼ oz. more than my snubby. It's like carrying an anchor. I only carry it when I think it's necessary. More rounds is more weight. The way I look at it, is if I can't deal with the situation with five rounds then three to eights rounds more means I shouldn't have been at that place at that time anyway.

    There is always a compromise.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    However, the pistol is unusually lightweight, weighing only 744 g (1.6 lb) with a loaded 20-round magazine. Polymer materials are used extensively in the pistol's design, and even the steel slide is encased in a polymer shell.

    fantastic firearm!! or so i have read about!!

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-30-2015 at 05:13 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    welcome...

    I am not one to go rolling on the ground, running or chasing after, nor jogging with my firearm so i am quite comfortable with friction holding my SD tool in place in its, LEATHER only thank you, holster on the outside of my pants on my belt. (caveat i do have a canvas shoulder rig i wear w/o the rig strapped to my belt, while driving long distances.

    now, understand the purchase of the right holster which suits your SD needs takes a lifetime to satisfy.

    ipse
    That's all nice but some times crap happens I seen to many handguns come out of friction holsters and hit the ground.

    I a firm believer in having some type of retention besides friction..
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    That's all nice but some times crap happens I seen to many handguns come out of friction holsters and hit the ground.

    I a firm believer in having some type of retention besides friction..
    remember, as stated numerous times, i am one who is non-confrontational so will be pushing myself and loved ones to cover as i retreat to be a good witness!!

    further, your retention holster(s), unless appropriately and continuously practiced properly as advocated earlier in both under stress and standing there situations to ensure muscle memory is correct...has a tendency to put the finger releasing the retention, of say the blackhawk holster, right in and on and around the pesky trigger just as someone is tugging and pulling their firearm out to defend themselves.

    firearms, some profess to be firm believers of fairy tales from long long ago...thank goodness, in this case, you seem open minded enough to rationally discuss the retention/friction subject and you recognize it is what one is comfortable with and has practiced significantly enough for their use.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	5x7 photo.jpg 
Views:	103 
Size:	20.7 KB 
ID:	12774

    However, the pistol is unusually lightweight, weighing only 744 g (1.6 lb) with a loaded 20-round magazine. Polymer materials are used extensively in the pistol's design, and even the steel slide is encased in a polymer shell.

    fantastic firearm!! or so i have read about!!

    ipse
    “1.6 lb with a loaded 20-round magazine....” 20 rounds of 9mm weighs 9 oz. That would mean the pistol unloaded would weigh a tad over 1 lb. What are you carrying? My M&P shield unloaded weighs 1 lb. 6 oz. And lets not forget the weight of your holster.

    My loaded snubby with holster weighs 1 lb. 8¾ oz.

    My loaded shield with holster weighs 1 lb. 12¼ oz.

    What am I missing????

  14. #14
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    ....I a firm believer in having some type of retention besides friction..
    And we all know that without friction none of us would be here discussing this.

  15. #15
    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    I carry my companion in a Blackhawk Serpa Sportster. Before that I used my tac rig, similar to the Nylon Omega seen here. Every so often, I'll still carry it in the old way. Usually for OC get togethers. Prefer the Serpa though.
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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    My primary holster for OC is the Safariland Model 6377 ALS Concealment Belt Loop Holster.

    http://www.safariland.com/belt-slide...ter-23337.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    remember, as stated numerous times, i am one who is non-confrontational so will be pushing myself and loved ones to cover as I retreat.

    ipse
    I believe it takes movement to do this as long as it does not take place rapidly or one needs to dive for cover you well be just fine.

    Carry your gun in what ever you want, don't know what fairly tales have to do with it.

    But I have seen more than one had gun hit the ground after coming out if its holster. That's why I prefer some type of positive retention besides friction.

    But than I lead a very active life style.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 09-30-2015 at 09:53 PM.
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    DeSantis Viper Paddle w/Thumb break
    http://www.lapolicegear.com/desantis...e-holster.html

    Blackhawk Serpa Sportster
    http://blackhawk.com/Products/Holste...E-Holster.aspx

    Modified Mexican Carry (string retention)
    http://www.imdb.com/media/rm23246632...i_mi_all_sf_11
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    “1.6 lb with a loaded 20-round magazine....” 20 rounds of 9mm weighs 9 oz. That would mean the pistol unloaded would weigh a tad over 1 lb. What are you carrying? My M&P shield unloaded weighs 1 lb. 6 oz. And lets not forget the weight of your holster.

    My loaded snubby with holster weighs 1 lb. 8¾ oz.

    My loaded shield with holster weighs 1 lb. 12¼ oz.

    What am I missing????
    humm my full sized firearm firearm w/20 rounds each w/muzzle velocity 2.3k (give or take a smidgen)

    tis not a midget eight round shield, nor a stubby with maybe five or six rounds...

    quote: There is always a compromise. unquote

    in my case, my firearm weighs less and has many more bangs then both of yours...that is my compromise!

    that is what you are missing!!!!!

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    humm my full sized firearm firearm w/20 rounds each w/muzzle velocity 2.3k (give or take a smidgen)

    tis not a midget eight round shield, nor a stubby with maybe five or six rounds...

    quote: There is always a compromise. unquote

    in my case, my firearm weighs less and has many more bangs then both of yours...that is my compromise!

    that is what you are missing!!!!!

    ipse
    You are comparing apples with oranges. What you described as your carry gun must be a “FN Five-seven.” The guns the adverage person carrys usually cost no more than $500. A “FN Five-seven” costs $1,200. + and is the size of a 1911. The length of the bullet is .43” longer that a 9mm. This causes the grip to be pretty stout, making it, for many, difficult to hold and shoot.

    I have a couple of friends that own a “FN Five-seven” and they have big hands and they don't carry it because of the guns size. Unlike my shield or snubby you ain't sticking a “FN Five-seven” in your pocket.

    I'm just say'n.
    Last edited by color of law; 10-01-2015 at 01:24 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Carrying in a crowed without some sort of retention has always bothered me.
    And like WalkingWolf the only retention on my OWB leather holster is a leather lace thong. I carry a 38s steel snubby in that holster. And it is my favorite. I just bought a S&W – M&P shield. I carry it in a Blackhawk serpa. The reason for this is in the summer the gun can end-up laying against my skin. Steel against the skin is not good. The shield is stainless steel and polymer.
    What I don't like is even though the shield carries four more rounds it also weighs 3½ oz. more. I can feel that extra weight even though the footprint of both are about the same. I'm sure I'll get use to it.
    My M&P compact weighs 9¼ oz. more than my snubby. It's like carrying an anchor. I only carry it when I think it's necessary. More rounds is more weight. The way I look at it, is if I can't deal with the situation with five rounds then three to eights rounds more means I shouldn't have been at that place at that time anyway.
    There is always a compromise.
    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    You are comparing apples with oranges. What you described as your carry gun must be a “FN Five-seven.” The guns the adverage person carrys usually cost no more than $500. A “FN Five-seven” costs $1,200. + and is the size of a 1911. The length of the bullet is .43” longer that a 9mm. This causes the grip to be pretty stout, making it, for many, difficult to hold and shoot.

    I have a couple of friends that own a “FN Five-seven” and they have big hands and they don't carry it because of the guns size. Unlike my shield or snubby you ain't sticking a “FN Five-seven” in your pocket.

    I'm just say'n.
    you state i am comparing fruits and veggies...sorry but filing your diversionary post under failed ~ especially since you didn't initially mention: what an average citizen spends on their 'carry'; or mention firearm cost, or physical dimensions of the firearm; or the citizen's inability to appropriately grip their Personal Defence firearm due to hand size or physical impairment, nor do i see anywhere in your initial posting about sticking your firearm in your pocket....yepper you do flat out state: quote ...on my OWB leather holster...unquote; and oh wait...yepper quote...in my blackhawk serpa unquote.

    course the contradiction is pleasant..."...grip is stout, making it, for many, difficult to hold and shoot" and then "i have friends with big hands and they don't carry it because of the guns size."

    ad nauseam...if your friends wish to sell their worthless, and unused 5.7 hand guns send me a PM and i offer top dollar for their USED firearms. i'll even drive up and pick them up.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 10-01-2015 at 02:17 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    you state i am comparing fruits and veggies...sorry but filing your diversionary post under failed ~ especially since you didn't initially mention: what an average citizen spends on their 'carry'; or mention firearm cost, or physical dimensions of the firearm; or the citizen's inability to appropriately grip their Personal Defence firearm due to hand size or physical impairment, nor do i see anywhere in your initial posting about sticking your firearm in your pocket....yepper you do flat out state: quote ...on my OWB leather holster...unquote; and oh wait...yepper quote...in my blackhawk serpa unquote.

    course the contradiction is pleasant..."...grip is stout, making it, for many, difficult to hold and shoot" and then "i have friends with big hands and they don't carry it because of the guns size."

    ad nauseam...if your friends wish to sell their worthless, and unused 5.7 hand guns send me a PM and i offer top dollar for their USED firearms. i'll even drive up and pick them up.

    ipse
    A little snarky??
    Last edited by color of law; 10-01-2015 at 04:07 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    A little snarky??
    nawllll, sorry don't touch the stuff...?

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  24. #24
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    I'll take one of those discounted 5.7's please...
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    You are comparing apples with oranges. What you described as your carry gun must be a “FN Five-seven.” The guns the adverage person carrys usually cost no more than $500. A “FN Five-seven” costs $1,200. + and is the size of a 1911. The length of the bullet is .43” longer that a 9mm. This causes the grip to be pretty stout, making it, for many, difficult to hold and shoot.

    I have a couple of friends that own a “FN Five-seven” and they have big hands and they don't carry it because of the guns size. Unlike my shield or snubby you ain't sticking a “FN Five-seven” in your pocket.

    I'm just say'n.
    So carry what you want, and he will carry what he wants. I know it's a new concept and all. What did I miss?

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