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Thread: Domino’s Pizza employee shot during robbery attempt

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    Domino’s Pizza employee shot during robbery attempt

    This from my paper the herald: Domino's employee shot at business. Too bad employees at high risk convenience stores, fast food joints or pizza delivery drivers don't get to CC at work. How about managers. At least they should be allowed to CC. These are businesses that get robbed frequently. The story is buried in the article. I know we can have a weapon in our vehicles while at work, but fast food employees, or gas station workers they need immediate protection. I don't think the law allows employees from CCing at these type of businesses.

    http://www.piercecountyherald.com/ne...set-blaze-pink

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    I have been a pizza delivery driver and a general manager at a fast food restaurant and in both cases carried. I cc'ed as a GM and oc'ed as a driver with the owners permission.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill.keen View Post
    I have been a pizza delivery driver and a general manager at a fast food restaurant and in both cases carried. I cc'ed as a GM and oc'ed as a driver with the owners permission.

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    It was Spinelli's pizzeria in Louisville.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    As long as it wasn't illegal I'd carry anyway. I'm not risking my life to make someone else a profit while not making very much myself.
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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I'm sure many will say that is a "safe" area. So safe no one gets hurt right?
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    As long as it wasn't illegal I'd carry anyway. I'm not risking my life to make someone else a profit while not making very much myself.
    +1 As much as it would pain me to get a permit. I would get one, and carry.
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    Can we blame this incident on legalized marijuana and state run pot shops?
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    I think it is pot-infused cheese curds at work here...


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    I used to deliver pizza for a Domino's on the West side of Milwaukee (You could see Wauwatosa out the window) in the late 1980's. The store manager and his wife carried all the time, and were actually great people in general, much less to work with.
    Last edited by Yetiman; 10-03-2015 at 11:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bill.keen View Post
    I have been a pizza delivery driver and a general manager at a fast food restaurant and in both cases carried. I cc'ed as a GM and oc'ed as a driver with the owners permission.

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    Can we carry in WI if we deliver pizza? I have heard of delivery persons getting robbed, esp late night deliveries. My brother in law delivers pizza on the night shift in the triangle in NC. He bought a gun years ago. Need to ask him if he carrys his weapon.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Can we carry in WI if we deliver pizza? I have heard of delivery persons getting robbed, esp late night deliveries. My brother in law delivers pizza on the night shift in the triangle in NC. He bought a gun years ago. Need to ask him if he carrys his weapon.
    If he is carrying he is legal in NC, though he may be violating company policy. Both dead, and fired has the same loss of income.

    Hopefully someone from WI can clarify if company policy has the force of law in WI.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 10-06-2015 at 03:31 PM.
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    I guess I would have to ask what do you mean by the force of law.


    You can be fired for violating a policy but you can not be arrested for it.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 10-06-2015 at 04:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    I guess I would have to ask what do you mean by the force of law.


    You can be fired for violating a policy but you can not be arrested for it.
    It is the latter that we mean by "force of law."

    I can be fired for almost anything including showing up to a formal meeting dressed for a beach party rather than to properly receive customers. Doesn't mean there is anything illegal about wearing swim trunks and tank top.

    If possession of a gun in contradiction of an employment policy or other private policy is a crime, then the policy has force of law.

    If possession of the gun isn't a crime, even if there is a company policy against it, then the gun ban has no force of law.

    The step beyond that is for the law to actually protect lawful possession of guns against dangerous and/or discriminatory employment policies in a manner similar to how dangerous work conditions cannot be maintained simply by a company policy that such conditions are a job requirement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    It is the latter that we mean by "force of law."

    I can be fired for almost anything including showing up to a formal meeting dressed for a beach party rather than to properly receive customers. Doesn't mean there is anything illegal about wearing swim trunks and tank top.

    If possession of a gun in contradiction of an employment policy or other private policy is a crime, then the policy has force of law.

    If possession of the gun isn't a crime, even if there is a company policy against it, then the gun ban has no force of law.

    The step beyond that is for the law to actually protect lawful possession of guns against dangerous and/or discriminatory employment policies in a manner similar to how dangerous work conditions cannot be maintained simply by a company policy that such conditions are a job requirement.

    Charles
    The way I see it, the car is NOT company property, it is an extension of your own property/castle and corporate policy has NO place in it.

    the only thing I can see is if you are wearing company uniforms, they don't want to be associated with them. I would clarify with a manager, that you intend to carry on delivery, cause it is your life and your property at risk, along with their profit for cash customers.

    if there is a problem, don't work for them, they would rather you be a dead pizza delivery victim with a stolen car and lost cash assets that are refunded Via business insurance claim, then let you take care of yourself and your safety.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    The way I see it, the car is NOT company property, it is an extension of your own property/castle and corporate policy has NO place in it.

    the only thing I can see is if you are wearing company uniforms, they don't want to be associated with them. I would clarify with a manager, that you intend to carry on delivery, cause it is your life and your property at risk, along with their profit for cash customers.

    if there is a problem, don't work for them, they would rather you be a dead pizza delivery victim with a stolen car and lost cash assets that are refunded Via business insurance claim, then let you take care of yourself and your safety.
    I believe that is what the drivers here do that carry. One of the Dominoes managers years ago told me she ignores if a driver carries. Sorta unofficial permission. But on company property when the employee has been notified of no gun policy in NC does have the force of law. Though it is only a misdemeanor, I have never heard of any employee being charged, though some have been fired. Unfortunately in NC signage, and notification do have the force of law, though I believe the Governor signed a bill changing it from a misdemeanor to an infraction, which would mean a ticket, and a minimal fine.

    Personally I would rather pay the fine, then pay the undertaker.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    The way I see it, the car is NOT company property, it is an extension of your own property/castle and corporate policy has NO place in it.
    I agree. Which is the very rational we used to pass "Parking Lot Preemption" in Utah a few years back. With rare exception, employers may not maintain an employment policy banning guns from an employee's car, even if the car is parked in the company parking lot.

    But in many States employment policies are allowed to ban guns from company property, even if inside a private vehicle. And it seems that in some States a company gun ban might invoke legal sanctions even in the parking lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    the only thing I can see is if you are wearing company uniforms, they don't want to be associated with them. I would clarify with a manager, that you intend to carry on delivery, cause it is your life and your property at risk, along with their profit for cash customers.
    I know this is an OC forum, but when it comes to presenting an image to the public, I can concede a company might have a right to limit the visible possession of a gun. But what can't be seen, can't cause anyone to have an unwanted image of the company. On the flip side, current law does not allow a company to require a Jewish or Muslim employee to avoid wearing religiously mandated head-dress just because such attire didn't fit the company image. So I'm not sure lawful gun possession should get any less legal protection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    if there is a problem, don't work for them, they would rather you be a dead pizza delivery victim with a stolen car and lost cash assets that are refunded Via business insurance claim, then let you take care of yourself and your safety.
    Under current law, that is the unfortunate choice some have to make. It is a shame we don't do a better job of protecting employees from the bigotries or dangerous work conditions of employers. Imagine a company policy that prohibited the use of seat belts while driving. Or that mandated exceeding posted speed limits. Such policies would not stand. Not only do they require employees to violate laws, but they clearly place the employee at needless risk of injury or death. Banning the lawful possession of self-defense firearms, likewise, places employees at needless, heightened risk of injury or death.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    [ ... ]Personally I would rather pay the fine, then pay the undertaker.
    Maybe you meant than pay the undertaker?
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Maybe you meant than pay the undertaker?
    Yea Yea, that damn spell check does not catch those type of errors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezek View Post
    ...the only thing I can see is if you are wearing company uniforms, they don't want to be associated with them. I would clarify with a manager, that you intend to carry on delivery, cause it is your life and your property at risk, along with their profit for cash customers.
    IMO If I was in that situation I would not let management know that I intended to carry, less they know the better.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix David View Post
    IMO If I was in that situation I would not let management know that I intended to carry, less they know the better.
    Don't ask don't tell ala Bill Clinton. .......--Mod deleted last sentence--
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-08-2015 at 09:54 PM. Reason: Keeping it suitable for OCDO
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Pizzia delivery is a dangerous job

    This story from another state proves that delivering pizza is a dangerous job not only in Milwaukee but everywhere in large cities. This delivery guy defied the company policy and carried his gun

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015...o-guns-policy/

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    Love the beauty of this statement and the wisdom of FL legislators/courts in making it clear:

    Domino’s spokesman Tim McIntyre told TheBlaze that while the company prefers that drivers do not carry weapons Florida state law supersedes any company’s policy.

    “In this case, the employee of the independently owned franchise has a concealed carry permit and was not charged with anything. We’re simply grateful that he was unharmed,” McIntyre said.

    So in other words Tim was saying 'if the employee followed our company policy he might be dead - except for his personal decision to protect himself from our dangerously stupid policy'.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Can we carry in WI if we deliver pizza? I have heard of delivery persons getting robbed, esp late night deliveries. My brother in law delivers pizza on the night shift in the triangle in NC. He bought a gun years ago. Need to ask him if he carrys his weapon.
    If the company you're delivering for bars employees from carrying, you have no permission to carry while delivering and could face repercussions (i.e. termination) should you choose to ignore the company rules.

    An employer may prohibit a licensee that it employs from carrying a concealed weapon in the course of the licensee's employment or during any part of the licensee's course of employment. -- Wis. Stat. § 175.60(15m)(a)

    However:

    An employer may not prohibit a licensee, as a condition of employment, from carrying a concealed weapon or from storing a weapon in the licensee's own motor vehicle, regardless of whether the motor vehicle is driven or parked on property used by the employer. -- Wis. Stat. § 175.60(15m)(b)

    Meaning, even if your employer bans firearms as part of your employment, they cannot legally prevent you from carrying while in your own vehicle. Should you be terminated for having or carrying your firearm in your vehicle while delivering, and you're a licensee, you would have cause for a wrongful termination lawsuit.

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    At will employee ... no exception carved out for gun ownership/possession

    Carry gun in your car and company don't like it? They'll fire you.

    Never TELL them and avoid this issue. If you need it, use it ... better alive and unemployed than the reverse.

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