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Thread: MWAG near VCU campus

  1. #1
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    MWAG near VCU campus

    Possibly OCing a rifle. How would the stop be justified if there was one?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...armed-suspect/
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    there have been similar alerts and lock downs in nc which turned out to be umbrellas being mistaken for LG.

    http://myfox8.com/2013/04/12/nc-at-o...fle-on-campus/

    http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/10387437/

    Click image for larger version. 

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    ipse
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Possibly OCing a rifle. How would the stop be justified if there was one?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...armed-suspect/
    Easy with a long gun...brandishing.

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    Carrying alone is not brandishing. If it were the second would be worthless.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronald.love.566 View Post
    Carrying alone is not brandishing. If it were the second would be worthless.
    You wanna tell that to a Deputy Sheriff and a Rent-A-Cop? Or a county cop?

    You need to read further than merely 2006 Code of Virginia § 18.2-282 but into the case law. All it takes is someone getting a case of the vapors for a magistrate to agree to issue a warrant. Then it's off to the races to see whose dictionary is going to win.

    And remember that right now SCOTUS says the 2nd applies to the keeping of arms in the home for self defense. They have skirted the "bearing" part so far, leaving us with a hell of a patchwork of Circuit Court of Appeals rulings.

    stay safe.
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    I live in Texas and we seem to mostly know better. I have carried a long gun with no problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronald.love.566 View Post
    I live in Texas and we seem to mostly know better. I have carried a long gun with no problems.
    But you have posted in a Virginia forum and a Virginia thread about a Virginia incident that is controversial for Virginia law.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    So, I thought VIRGINIA WAS THE CRADLE OF LIBERTY. What gives?

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronald.love.566 View Post
    I live in Texas and we seem to mostly know better. I have carried a long gun with no problems.
    oh btw tex...the good folk in VA and NC and 29 other states open carry our sidearms WITHOUT a state issued privilege card...oh wait...you can't even do that can ya until after the 1st of Jan 2016...

    ya your use of the terms SEEM and MOSTLY were used correctly!!

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 10-07-2015 at 12:32 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronald.love.566 View Post
    So, I thought VIRGINIA WAS THE CRADLE OF LIBERTY. What gives?
    Enough with the non-sequiturs. A person called the police. The police did not take it upon themselves to illegally detain the individual. The police in fact did not find the individual. Virginia Law has absolutely nothing to do with how the general public responds to perceived illegalities. It's only the police's job to investigate, which they did.

    Perhaps you are confused.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member MackTheKnife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Easy with a long gun...brandishing.
    Wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MackTheKnife View Post
    Wrong.

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    Very interested in how you came to that conclusion. Please elucidate.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Very interested in how you came to that conclusion. Please elucidate.

    stay safe.
    Kinda like to hear that too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    there have been similar alerts and lock downs in nc which turned out to be umbrellas being mistaken for LG.

    http://myfox8.com/2013/04/12/nc-at-o...fle-on-campus/

    http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/10387437/

    ipse
    Lucky those two are alive. My Googlefu is weak today. I could not find any followup stories on the perps referenced in the above two linked stories.

    “Two independent sightings described the subject as a male wearing a green shirt, jacket, and a square, military-style cap, with a black backpack,” the university said.
    A citizen, on/near a college campus, wearing a backpack and a ball cap...hmm, yep the dude is a terrorist. Shoot on sight just to be safe.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    interesting to note...it was the local police who were watching citizens on their spy cams who spotted it and sounded the general alarm w/o sending a cruiser to investigate first.

    apparently if mem serves the nice LEs located the gentleman in a fast food joint and verified it was a bumbershoot.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  16. #16
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MackTheKnife View Post
    Wrong.

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    Well cme on mack. You said in loud print...Wrong.. I want you to explin it to us know nothings.

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    Regular Member MackTheKnife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Well cme on mack. You said in loud print...Wrong.. I want you to explin it to us know nothings.
    No need to take it personal. Carrying a long gun is not brandishing.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MackTheKnife View Post
    No need to take it personal. Carrying a long gun is not brandishing.

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    I don't take it personally mack, but just saying wrong with no support tells newbies the wrong message and guidance.
    The facts are, Virginia's brandishing statute is so vague, it's absolutely true.
    Now if the rifle is slung and stays so your reasonably safe but hand held, it depends on the observer being afraid.
    A good example is when carry in national parks passed.
    The park service consulted with the Va. AGs office.
    I got a copy of the memo sent by the chief park ranger. He stated slung rifles were permitted but handheld were considered brandishing.

    While we've gotten past this now, it hasn't been too many years that people were being arrested in va beach for having shotguns in visible racks in your vehicle.

    So yes, Leo's do routinely use suspecion of brandishing to stop and I'd people.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MackTheKnife View Post
    No need to take it personal. Carrying a long gun is not brandishing.

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I don't take it personally mack, but just saying wrong with no support tells newbies the wrong message and guidance.
    The facts are, Virginia's brandishing statute is so vague, it's absolutely true.
    Now if the rifle is slung and stays so your reasonably safe but hand held, it depends on the observer being afraid.
    A good example is when carry in national parks passed.
    The park service consulted with the Va. AGs office.
    I got a copy of the memo sent by the chief park ranger. He stated slung rifles were permitted but handheld were considered brandishing.

    While we've gotten past this now, it hasn't been too many years that people were being arrested in va beach for having shotguns in visible racks in your vehicle.

    So yes, Leo's do routinely use suspecion of brandishing to stop and I'd people.
    There is no question but that the brandishing statute has been used against people who had no mal-intent and who would not have been convicted of assault.
    http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/18.2-282/

    In layman's terms brandishing is said to require the feeling of fear by the victim/recipient.

    Assault is described as when the action(s) of one towards another threatens violence.
    http://www.virginiarules.com/virgini...gainst-persons
    https://vacode.org/18.2-57/


    Additionally, carrying long guns have some special conditions in Virginia.

    The following cities and counties have exceptions that disallow the open carry of "assault weapons" (any firearm that is equipped with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or is designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock) or shotguns equipped with a magazine that holds more than 7 rounds: the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, and Virginia Beach and in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, and Prince William. These restrictions do not apply to valid concealed carry permit holders.
    http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/18.2-287.4/

    So when someone says there is no difference between OCing a long gun and a handgun, yes there may be. Plus there is the public's perception of what constitutes a threat and how any complaint/call is worded.

    Become familiar with the term swatting or SWAT-ing as it applies here.
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/09/01...ting-lives-at/
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-10-2015 at 04:05 PM. Reason: added
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    Regular Member MackTheKnife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I don't take it personally mack, but just saying wrong with no support tells newbies the wrong message and guidance.
    The facts are, Virginia's brandishing statute is so vague, it's absolutely true.
    Now if the rifle is slung and stays so your reasonably safe but hand held, it depends on the observer being afraid.
    A good example is when carry in national parks passed.
    The park service consulted with the Va. AGs office.
    I got a copy of the memo sent by the chief park ranger. He stated slung rifles were permitted but handheld were considered brandishing.

    While we've gotten past this now, it hasn't been too many years that people were being arrested in va beach for having shotguns in visible racks in your vehicle.

    So yes, Leo's do routinely use suspecion of brandishing to stop and I'd people.
    Using the phrase "know nothings" appears to be taking it personally. If not, then it's snarky. I just used the word wrong to keep it simple. Carrying a long gun, in and of itself, is not brandishing. I realize in real life it's not always so simple. Just like LEOs who draw down on OC'ers like Dan Beladi, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by MackTheKnife View Post
    No need to take it personal. Carrying a long gun is not brandishing.

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  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    It was snark and deservedly so.

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    Regular Member MackTheKnife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    It was snark and deservedly so.
    Ha!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MackTheKnife View Post
    . Carrying a long gun, in and of itself, is not brandishing. I realize in real life it's not always so simple. Just like LEOs who draw down on OC'ers like Dan Beladi, etc.
    As has been explained to you, the Virginia law places the decision on whether or not the firearm, regardless of how carried, is being brandished, on the person observing the firearm. This is not just in the statute (below) but "enshrined" in case law. (A basic primer can be read here http://www.virginia1774.org/Page5.html .)

    http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/t...ction18.2-282/

    § 18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.
    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.
    ....
    We also have a law here about brandishing a machete (18.2-283) that was passed back when there were a rash of MS-13 hackings going on. But it still can screw you over when you are attacking the creeper vines along your fence line.

    It would be nice if both the statutory and case law in Virginia on brandishing were like other states, but it just aint so. We have, as previously mentioned, had folks jammed up because someone got their panties all twisted up just seeing a firearm. We lean that we carry at our peril.

    stay safe.
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    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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