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Thread: Louisville library

  1. #1
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    Louisville library

    I am at this moment waiting on word if Murray guard is going to allow me to stay in the library with my oc'ed firearm. This could get interesting.

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    So they never said anything else to me, I asked them if they got it straightened out they said yes.

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    In the couple of years I have been oc'ing the only problem I have had are two incidents with Murray guard. I was planning to call their office tomorrow to speak to someone about it but I think an email will work out better, just so I have a copy of everything. I'm not sure what other steps I can take but it seems they need to better train their employees.

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    Gutshot, sorry I haven't figured out how to quote things on my phone but you said kc3 told them they were not allowed to have a policy about asking. I spoke one of the guards and her supervisor (not murray guard but a library employee) I spoke with her alittle about the law and she knew all about it and said they often ask people to lock up their firearms. Mind you I have oc'ed at this branch many times before without incident.

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    I do not have any recording as of now I have never carried a recorder but will be buying one tomorrow. It was the main branch and like I said this is the first time anyone has said anything to me there. I have carried many times before without a word.

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    Does anybody know of any pamphlets or anything that can be carried and given to people when they are approached about OC?

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    Right after I posted the question I realized the statute printed on a business card would probably work well. I'll have some made when I order my "no gun no money" cards.

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    May have to rethink that then, but I'll figure it out.

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    I know one library you can't carry at: Westport Road branch. It's in a middle school

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    You are right. How strange. While looking into this, I also learned that there is a branch in the Shively City Hall, St. Matthews City Hall and Middletown Municipal building. None of these cities are even part of Louisville Metro government. The Middletown library shares space in a building with the drivers licensing office (Circuit Clerk). Watch out! No carry in that office.
    I believe Louisville metro still has control of those areas as part of the city/county merger. All of Jefferson county is Louisville metro, they are just city's within the metro. Atleast that is my understanding.

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    Well that makes sense, thanks for clarifying that. As I moved to Louisville in 2003 I was unaware of the full affect of the merger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    You are right. How strange. While looking into this, I also learned that there is a branch in the Shively City Hall, St. Matthews City Hall and Middletown Municipal building. None of these cities are even part of Louisville Metro government. The Middletown library shares space in a building with the drivers licensing office (Circuit Clerk). Watch out! No carry in that office.
    Why no carry in the Circuit Clerk Office? Or is it because it is a drivers license facility?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Its a court system office. Circuit Clerk is the clerk fot the circuit judge.
    Ah. This is making me look for places you can't carry again. I carried at the DMV and the County Clerk's office and neither sheriff's deputies there had an issue with me OCing. Gotta go through the laws again. Which one would say where weapons are banned period by law? 237.110 lists the No Conceal places, what about open?

    in fact, please explain how the clerk's office is off limits. I know I should know better, but I can't piece it together reading the KRS I have.
    Last edited by poetdante; 10-07-2015 at 06:04 PM.

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    That was explained well, gutshot.

    What I meant about the DMV was the Department of Motor Vehicles, or basically what folks around here call the place you get your drivers license and state ID. The one in particular I was referring to was the one at Bowman's Field in Louisville. It is where people take their written and practical driving tests, or get their license renewed, or get state IDs, change of addresses on them, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poetdante View Post
    Ah. This is making me look for places you can't carry again. I carried at the DMV and the County Clerk's office and neither sheriff's deputies there had an issue with me OCing. Gotta go through the laws again. Which one would say where weapons are banned period by law? 237.110 lists the No Conceal places, what about open?...
    Maybe that's an idea for the KY forum - ask the moderator to sticky a list of no CC places and no OC places, along with the reason for the prohibition.

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    Link it

    Instead of trying to get the entire law on a business card...

    Maybe just give them a business card with a internet link on it.

    You could probably give them a few more links to other important laws on the card also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Not a good idea. These people won't work that hard to prove themselves wrong. Unless you can stick the law under their noses, they will make no effort to find it. Even then, they may throw it on the floor, without reading it. Anyway, this has been my experience.
    With student groups at least, I have a one page sign-up flier with the top third of the paper being an intro to KY students for concealed carry. It makes pro-gun statements and explanations about what you can/can't do, while citing the KRS if they are so inclined to check. I wouldn't say business cards are enough, but index cards would work great. Folks always don't believe me until I show them the KRS, and sometimes have to show the KRS on my phone in full. For statistics, sources are also important. My co-worker (ivory tower college researcher, idealist) did not believe me when I said people are bludgeoned more than killed by rifles until I showed him the FBI data. Speaking of which, I always wonder if their numbers include LEO shots, shots in self-defense by citizens, and if there is a way to "filter" out the felons/gang-related shootings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Not a good idea. These people won't work that hard to prove themselves wrong. Unless you can stick the law under their noses, they will make no effort to find it. Even then, they may throw it on the floor, without reading it. Anyway, this has been my experience.
    Since we're talking Kentucky libraries in this thread I'll re-share my story about the main branch library for Kenton County, in downtown Covington. Before they remodeled they had a 'No guns' sign which referenced a particular Covington codified ordinance. Knowing that any such law was preempted by the state anyway I engaged the detail city cop assigned to the library about the subject. He was friendly and aware of the preemption. But what he wasn't aware of was that the ordinance on the sign was a total work of fiction by the library, no such city law existed, or ever did. (I checked that out thoroughly before having the chat.)

    So, the detail cop said he needed to NOT find that ordinance for himself--pparently he leaned towards taking me at my word. By a couple days later he told me that as soon as remodeling began, that 'No guns' sign would be gone, never to return. he was good to his word. Apparently he and the city Law Director had quite the stern chat with library honchos about quoting laws that don't exist.

    Somebody should have been in trouble but that would have been too much to hope for.
    Last edited by Brian D.; 10-09-2015 at 07:51 AM. Reason: Spelling and stuff

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    As far as circuit clerk and justice centers go my co sherriff is questioning that now with no answers.
    The law and AG opinion clearly state guns may only be banned in the area soley occupied by the court of justice court room.
    Not the first floor. Not the clerks office.
    A judge in Greenup co started that mess when the Justice Centers were built and to my knowledge nobody called them on it.
    What they are doing making the entire justice centers gfz isnt legal.
    Just nobody has raised a fuss about it.
    The judges making rules excuse only applies to the court room and chambers.
    Even then its in violation of the state constitution.

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    Yep. Only basing it OC, which by state constitution cannot be regulated by the state legilature and by preemption any other guvernment entity.
    Nor is the legislature empowered to allow any count city etc to regulate OC.
    ONLY to prevent CC.
    Actually the legislature was not empowered to create the CCDW scheme
    Only allow or prevent carry of concealed weapons. Not create a permit, require a BC nor charge a fee.
    That is why it is a ccdw that includes all deadly weapons. Not just guns. It got around the prohibition of the legislature on creating the ccdw scheme which is a money game.

    A couple of more political seats change hands a decent AG and most ic the few restrictions we have fall like a unconstitutional house of cards if we push the issue statewide.

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    Ok so speaking of court houses, I went to the child support office the other day and found that they still have no weapons signs posted. I asked one of the detectives and was told since it was a branch of the county attorneys office that it was part of the court. I haven't done any investigating whether or not that carries any weight but it sounds like a bunch of bull to me. Anyone know anything about this?

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    I apologize yes it is the starks building. I did not get the name of the detective.





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    I really thought about oc'ing but can't deal with spending the night in jail if one of those detectives has a hair up his ass. I'm going to try talking to the district attorney since it is his office if I het no where with that I guess my local state representative would be the next call.

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    Here is a copy of the email I sent to the Jefferson county attorneys office.

    I recently visited the Jefferson county child support office and noticed two no weapons signs, when I asked one of the detectives posted in the office I was told it was part of the court system and I was not allowed to carry my sidearm. I have reviewed KRS 65.870, 237.110, and 527.020 and have found nothing authorizing the ban of openly carried firearms inside the child support office located at 315 W. Mohammed Ali Blvd. I am requesting that these signs be removed and the staff be educated on what the current laws are regarding the open carry of firearms.

    Guess we'll see what happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    KRS 237.115 clearly says that there can be no penalty for violators. All they can do is ask you to leave. The county attorney's office is the correct place to start. They know better than this and I suspect they will be shocked to find out that these signs are up in one of their own offices. KC3 has been through these statutes several times with them. These signs are different from any on any other Metro building that I know of. How they have stayed in place is a mystery to me. They certainly don't appear to be new. Could you email those picture to me, if I send you a PM with my email address?
    Yes I can send you the pics.

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