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Thread: Dealing with trespasser while OCing

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    Dealing with trespasser while OCing

    Had an event tonight where a vehicle came on to property & proceeded to start taking pictures of land & buildings as we were arriving home from running errands. As I approached the vehicle (after observing it for a few minutes to verify presence of camera), I yelled out "cease & desist all activity". The gal stopped her vehicle & I & my mother both asked her what she was doing. She explained she had orders to take pictures of our property for a mortgage company (parents own the property with title/deed in hand). We both requested to see the orders which she showed us but would not allow us to actual handle it, so I took my cell phone out, & took a picture of the order. We explained to her that we were not notified of any pictures being needed & that she was trespassing. After that she got in her vehicle & drove away.

    The whole time this was happening I was OCing IWB right hip. As I approached the vehicle & she got out, I did notice her glance at my hip. However I did not make a motion toward my sidearm as I kept my hands visible at all times about chest height.

    Has anyone else ever dealt with a similar situation?

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnrobitaille View Post
    Had an event tonight where a vehicle came on to property & proceeded to start taking pictures of land & buildings as we were arriving home from running errands. As I approached the vehicle (after observing it for a few minutes to verify presence of camera), I yelled out "cease & desist all activity". The gal stopped her vehicle & I & my mother both asked her what she was doing. She explained she had orders to take pictures of our property for a mortgage company (parents own the property with title/deed in hand). We both requested to see the orders which she showed us but would not allow us to actual handle it, so I took my cell phone out, & took a picture of the order. We explained to her that we were not notified of any pictures being needed & that she was trespassing. After that she got in her vehicle & drove away.

    The whole time this was happening I was OCing IWB right hip. As I approached the vehicle & she got out, I did notice her glance at my hip. However I did not make a motion toward my sidearm as I kept my hands visible at all times about chest height.

    Has anyone else ever dealt with a similar situation?
    Very unwise of her. There are some who would have had her at gunpoint and asked questions later.She should have announced herself to you and shown her papers and then done her job. I suggest you handled the situation quite well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Very unwise of her. There are some who would have had her at gunpoint and asked questions later.She should have announced herself to you and shown her papers and then done her job. I suggest you handled the situation quite well.
    Some very stupid people, sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mnrobitaille View Post
    Had an event tonight where a vehicle came on to property & proceeded to start taking pictures of land & buildings as we were arriving home from running errands. As I approached the vehicle (after observing it for a few minutes to verify presence of camera), I yelled out "cease & desist all activity". The gal stopped her vehicle & I & my mother both asked her what she was doing. She explained she had orders to take pictures of our property for a mortgage company (parents own the property with title/deed in hand). We both requested to see the orders which she showed us but would not allow us to actual handle it, so I took my cell phone out, & took a picture of the order. We explained to her that we were not notified of any pictures being needed & that she was trespassing. After that she got in her vehicle & drove away.

    The whole time this was happening I was OCing IWB right hip. As I approached the vehicle & she got out, I did notice her glance at my hip. However I did not make a motion toward my sidearm as I kept my hands visible at all times about chest height.

    Has anyone else ever dealt with a similar situation?
    A little communication on her part would have served her well.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    if your parents have ownership documents in hand, free and clear, then there is no mortgage company per se (insurance company maybe?) so you might want to follow up on this by filing a police report of the incident in the event someone was 'casing the joint'. that the individual wouldn't let you handle the documents is extremely worrisome at best.

    further, you have not signed a release to photograph the property or disposition of the images. therefore you need to get control of those images and get the control back especially since you do not know the use of nor the images destination.

    be wary of this incident and follow up by contacting the names on the documents you took with your fone and again think seriously about filing an after the fact police report...

    whenever i photograph abandoned houses, my hobby and in BW, i leave a signed photo release saying the apparent property owner wasn't available and the purpose for taking the photos was my personal use as well as stating the images won't be distributed or released to the public. i also put a note of thanks for letting me photograph their splendid building. to date, nobody has contacted me.

    ipse
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    There is no right of privacy in an image from public property of a domicile. See Zillow. See the previous discussion of drones.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 10-07-2015 at 07:54 AM. Reason: emphasis for the hard of reading
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    There is no right of privacy in an image from public property of a domicile. See Zillow. See the previous discussion of drones.
    your public property has a mortgage company?

    and as the OP stated... "...where a vehicle came on to property & proceeded...."

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    There is no right of privacy in an image from public property of a domicile. See Zillow. See the previous discussion of drones.
    Focus.

    Had an event tonight where a vehicle came on to property & proceeded to start taking pictures of land & buildings
    And for all that is holy please clean up your sentence structure; this is English, not German.

    stay safe.
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    Yep. I tellem to skedaddle. Not interested in their reasons for being on my land.

    Got a dollar store no trespassing sign out at the end of the drive-way. USPS works just fine, send me a note to request a appointment...I'll get back to you, or not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Very unwise of her. There are some who would have had her at gunpoint and asked questions later.She should have announced herself to you and shown her papers and then done her job. I suggest you handled the situation quite well.
    You are allowed to shoot someone for simply trespassing in WA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by willy1094 View Post
    You are allowed to shoot someone for simply trespassing in WA?
    Not for simple trespassing, only if the trespasser causes/tries to cause bodily injury/harm can you shoot someone.

    I was just OCing at the time of the event as I just got home. All the gal did was get out of her car on the adjoining property (only thing between us was a barb-wire fence) & show us the paperwork & say her spiel about her reasoning for taking the photos. Not once did she make any threating moves that caused warranting alarm.

    Also not once did I make any movements towards my sidearm to cause any warranting alarm as my hands were at chest height the whole time.

    Concerning the other issues concerning the mortgage company, it is something that has been going on for the past six+ months where the mortgage was paid off (via doing a refinance through another lender) & paying that mortgage company off. We already have a legal team in place that has been working for us against the mortgage company.

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willy1094 View Post
    You are allowed to shoot someone for simply trespassing in WA?
    I must have missed the part where someone was shot.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Are you sure that your parents aren't applying for a loan? Maybe they don't want you to know. The bank should give you notice, but that does not always happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    Are you sure that your parents aren't applying for a loan? Maybe they don't want you to know. The bank should give you notice, but that does not always happen.
    There is no new loan processing being done. My parents keep me informed on what's going on with OUR property as my wife & I live on the same property as my parents. The mortgage company who had the mortgage got paid off by doing a refinancing with another lender with the assistance of our legal team. The mortgage company gave us the title/deed to property however they are still trying to say that funds are owned, pay up, or we will foreclose on you.

    We & our legal team have a pretty good size file concerning the transactions & correspondence done with the mortgage company & the title/deed have been recorded with the County Auditor's office as showing my parents are the owners of the property (not the mortgage company).

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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    I must have missed the part where someone was shot.
    No one got shot but someone suggested that "some" would point a gun at the trespasser (see the comment I quoted. If you are not justified in shooting a person, you are not justified in pointing a gun at a person. Just seemed like it was being suggested that pointing at gun at someone trespassing would be ok, otherwise not sure why it would have been brought up. I just didn't want to declare it a no-no without having specific knowledge of the laws in the OP's area.
    Last edited by willy1094; 10-07-2015 at 09:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willy1094 View Post
    No one got shot but someone suggested that "some" would point a gun at the trespasser (see the comment I quoted. If you are not justified in shooting a person, you are not justified in pointing a gun at a person. Just seemed like it was being suggested that pointing at gun at someone trespassing would be ok, otherwise not sure why it would have been brought up. I just didn't want to declare it a no-no without having specific knowledge of the laws in the OP's area.
    I should state I think it would be overkill to behave that way unless there was a clear threat. IE dark and the person was trying to hide. As hard line as I am, I wouldnt have pointed the gun myself though I'd have thought about it but unless the situation escalated I would not have. As it stands there was no immediate threat so drawing would not have been justified at that point from what we know
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnrobitaille View Post
    There is no new loan processing being done. My parents keep me informed on what's going on with OUR property as my wife & I live on the same property as my parents. The mortgage company who had the mortgage got paid off by doing a refinancing with another lender with the assistance of our legal team. The mortgage company gave us the title/deed to property however they are still trying to say that funds are owned, pay up, or we will foreclose on you.

    We & our legal team have a pretty good size file concerning the transactions & correspondence done with the mortgage company & the title/deed have been recorded with the County Auditor's office as showing my parents are the owners of the property (not the mortgage company).
    I wish you luck. Banks/mortgagers are about as dirty as they come. And the courts are in bed with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mnrobitaille View Post
    There is no new loan processing being done. My parents keep me informed on what's going on with OUR property as my wife & I live on the same property as my parents. The mortgage company who had the mortgage got paid off by doing a refinancing with another lender with the assistance of our legal team. The mortgage company gave us the title/deed to property however they are still trying to say that funds are owned, pay up, or we will foreclose on you.

    We & our legal team have a pretty good size file concerning the transactions & correspondence done with the mortgage company & the title/deed have been recorded with the County Auditor's office as showing my parents are the owners of the property (not the mortgage company).
    LOL "The Rest of The Story." Well, most of it. Not a lot of people need a legal-team to do a refinance or to recommend title insurance.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 10-08-2015 at 07:37 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnrobitaille View Post
    Had an event tonight where a vehicle came on to property & proceeded to start taking pictures of land & buildings as we were arriving home from running errands. As I approached the vehicle (after observing it for a few minutes to verify presence of camera), I yelled out "cease & desist all activity". The gal stopped her vehicle & I & my mother both asked her what she was doing. She explained she had orders to take pictures of our property for a mortgage company (parents own the property with title/deed in hand). We both requested to see the orders which she showed us but would not allow us to actual handle it, so I took my cell phone out, & took a picture of the order. We explained to her that we were not notified of any pictures being needed & that she was trespassing. After that she got in her vehicle & drove away.


    Quote Originally Posted by mnrobitaille View Post
    All the gal did was get out of her car on the adjoining property (only thing between us was a barb-wire fence) & show us the paperwork & say her spiel about her reasoning for taking the photos.
    Pardon my confusion, but was she on your property or not? If she was on adjoining property (which I assume is not owned by you), in what way was she trespassing?
    Han shot first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    in the event someone was 'casing the joint'. that the individual wouldn't let you handle the documents is extremely worrisome at best.

    you need to get control of those images and get the control back especially since you do not know the use of nor the images destination.

    be wary of this incident and follow up by contacting the names on the documents you took with your fone and again think seriously about filing an after the fact police report...
    I friend of mine had his dog poisoned. He kept this to himself or I would have told him to be wary. His home was burglarized a few days later. YMMV, but I would not have let her leave without exposing the film to daylight. Please let your local LEOs know of the incident, just to get it recorded. If nothing happens, you are good, if something does happen, you are prepared. Getting the film may be impossible now, but you may be able to limit its use.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnrobitaille View Post
    Not for simple trespassing, only if the trespasser causes/tries to cause bodily injury/harm can you shoot someone.

    I was just OCing at the time of the event as I just got home. All the gal did was get out of her car on the adjoining property (only thing between us was a barb-wire fence) & show us the paperwork & say her spiel about her reasoning for taking the photos. Not once did she make any threating moves that caused warranting alarm.

    Also not once did I make any movements towards my sidearm to cause any warranting alarm as my hands were at chest height the whole time.

    Concerning the other issues concerning the mortgage company, it is something that has been going on for the past six+ months where the mortgage was paid off (via doing a refinance through another lender) & paying that mortgage company off. We already have a legal team in place that has been working for us against the mortgage company.
    So I'm confused, was she on your (parents) property or not?
    Last edited by notalawyer; 10-08-2015 at 05:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    So I'm confused, was she on your (parents) property or not?
    Hopefully OP can clarify, as his parents, and his wife and him live on the property I am going to guess that both properties belong to the parents. This is not unusual, I have a friend that owns five houses on one block, all occupied by members of the family.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I friend of mine had his dog poisoned. He kept this to himself or I would have told him to be wary. His home was burglarized a few days later. YMMV, but I would not have let her leave without exposing the film to daylight. Please let your local LEOs know of the incident, just to get it recorded. If nothing happens, you are good, if something does happen, you are prepared. Getting the film may be impossible now, but you may be able to limit its use.
    You're a few years behind, MSG. Probably using digital tech.

    Doesn't really matter if they own the property outright or are still paying on it. I can't imagine any reason other than something nefarious that would require that sort of action by anyone. Certainly file a report with the local constable.
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    Mortgage companies as well as insurance companies routinely photograph properties where they have a vested interest. Often times the mortgagee or insured has signed something with fine print authorizing the photos, and even without said permission it is 100% perfectly legal to stand on a public way and photograph a property.

    Everyone advocating assaulting/pointing a firearm at the photo taker or destroying that person's film or camera is advocating actions that'll quickly get your ass thrown in jail.

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    Unless you are a Baltimore cop...

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