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The Open Carry and Strict Scrutiny bill has been filed

John Pierce

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The last version of this thread turned into nothing more than a couple of members attacking Florida Carry. That is in clear violation of the rules of the site and is counter to the interests of the community. Therefore, I have deleted the entire thread and have started a new one.

I am not sure why those few members felt the need to attack Florida Carry but let me say a few things.

1) Florida Carry is working very hard, both in the courts and in the legislature, to advance the cause of gun rights and open carry in Florida.

2) I personally know the President of Florida Carry, their lead attorney, and many in their leadership. I consider them friends! They are deserving of our trust and our support!

3) I know that in a perfect world we would always be looking at unlicensed open carry but rights are lost incrementally and often must be regained the same way. It is better to light a candle than to bitterly curse the darkness.

4) I will not tolerate this thread becoming a similar attack. I am going to ask Grapeshot to keep a close eye on this thread and will delete any comments I think are out of line.
 

Grapeshot

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Remember that perception of who or what someone else is rests entirely with the perceiver. In other words, we are completely what the other person(s) thinks we are.....to them.

We are not involved in a sporting event where the one who scores the most points always wins. It is more like a battle in the coliseum, where not receiving a serious injury/mortal blow is more important than whether you have vanquished your protagonist. Perhaps in the final consideration, it (the result) is a combination of the two: points scored and perception. Therein rests the need for diplomacy.

Style points count. What we think means little if we cannot affect what others think......and how they act. In the meanwhile we must limit/reduce our injuries - this wont be our only battle.

Now go forward and be fruitful.


Someone please post an update/status on where this all stands now w/o throwing stones.
 
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qednick

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May 1, 2007
Messages
499
Location
Bandera, TX
We're all supposed to be friends here and aiming for the same things. It's mind-boggling to me why some members feel the need to nit-pick, argue, and generally pooh pooh other member's questions, posts and comments--especially when it comes to newer members. It's almost as if some members feel they're the self-appointed know-it-all-and-therefore-superior-to-you masters of this forum and feel the need to ridicule or belittle others based on their genuine queries or even the state they're located in--maybe just to keep increasing their post count--who knows.

I've never been to Florida nor do I know anyone who lives there but I can tell you that if Florida are making (or attempting to make) any headway in their legislature then I am 110 per cent behind them and here to cheer them on. Like Texas, Florida may not have the "most ideal" gun laws right now but we have to keep chipping away piece by piece and take things one step at a time. Encouraging people to join in is absolutely key to gaining ground in these processes. By belittling, arguing with, pooh-poohing, or generally picking any kind of fault with any member or their posts is really not in the best interests of this forum or what we're all trying to achieve.
 

John Pierce

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I just received a phone call from the Miami Herald / Politifact.com who are verifying the comments concerning crime rates between open carry and non open carry states made by FL state Rep. Matt Gaetz.

I helped them to understand what open carry is, what the current status is, and to verify the math.

It will be interesting to see how they handle the data.
 

77zach

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Marion County, FL
HB 163/SB 300 has passed it's first committee hearing in the House. Most likely, passing the bill unmolested will not be a problem in the relatively pro 2nd amendment House. SB 300 has to go through the Criminal Justice committee, the Judiciary committee, and Rules, in the Senate. Rules is close, right now it looks 7-6 best case. There are a number of "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT...." republican senators. SB 300 will pass the criminal justice committee 3-2. The chairman of the judiciary committee is anti gun, he will not hear the bill unless there is broad support by fellow republicans (this is Mr Portilla). In its senate path, if it is heard, there will be amendments offered stripping or severely restricting the right to open carry by senator Portilla or Latvala or Dean or possibly by other senators who are new. Defeating those amendments will again require broad support from other republicans. All democrats will be voting no except Mr Abruzzo.

There are unknowns I (and the rest of the public) don't know about and NRA and Florida Carry are working behind the scenes.
 

The Truth

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Henrico
I personally only questioned certain wordings and tactics. If that was taken to be an attack on an organization, perhaps my motive for asking questions has been misconstrued. Hopefully this is a solid stepping stone for Floridians to regain their rights in the eyes of their oppressors.
 

StogieC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
745
Location
Florida
Water under bridge...

Rep. Matt Gaetz did a telephone town hall for constituents tonight. Support of licensed open carry was exceptionally high among the audience. I expect to have a date for the Senate Criminal Justice Committee to hear SB 300, the Senate companion bill by Sen. Don Gaetz, very soon.
 

press1280

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
399
Location
Eastern Panhandle,WV ,
I agree with the position taken by FL Carry. I know there are some who will push for nothing less than ConCarry, but what's been said is so true. Rights didn't disappear all at once, it came by increments, and that's how we get them back.

I'm curious though, if passed, what effect this will have on Norman? I know the case wouldn't be mooted necessarily (since this is a criminal case), but do you think it would make the FL Supremes more or less likely to rule for Norman?
 

Raventai

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
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25
Location
Dixie county, florida
So what can an average Floridian do to help this legislation along?

So far I have e-mailed Fl house member Keith Perry and FL senator Charles Dean in support of hb 163 and sb 300 respectively, and asked for thier support of these bills, so far neither has responded.

What else can be done to move forward open carry in Florida?
 

notalawyer

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Joined
Jun 19, 2012
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1,061
Location
Florida
So what can an average Floridian do to help this legislation along?

So far I have e-mailed Fl house member Keith Perry and FL senator Charles Dean in support of hb 163 and sb 300 respectively, and asked for thier support of these bills, so far neither has responded.

What else can be done to move forward open carry in Florida?

Join Florida Carry.

You'll get e-mail updates for calls to action as well as more general information.
 

77zach

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Feb 5, 2007
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Good choice.

Florida Carry does a LOT of good work and they will keep you informed of important "stuff" as it comes up.

AD

They do great work. And frustrating work. Fighting anti gunners, their constant lies and love of tyranny, is aggravating and time consuming. At least in California or New Jersey you know your efforts will be in vain and you take solace in your principles. Florida is just pro gun enough to give us glimmers of hope at every turn, only to slam the door in your face and stick to stupid tyranny that endangers lives. It took the NRA 7 years to pass permitted concealed carry, an activity violent criminals participated in without the need for a permit. Fl carry is taking on a much larger task, yet they keep coming. I think they'll all be old men before OC (licensed or not) happens here, so I raise my glass to them. And as always, I hope I'm wrong.
 
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Raventai

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Dixie county, florida
On the Florida roundup radio show on wlrn dot Org, from Oct 9th, starting at the 15 min mark, in studio was the chair of the committee that passed hb 163, he said he expects the strict scrutiny and probable cause to be stripped from the bill.

Other legislators are asking for retention holsters and retention training in exchange for thier support.

I tried posting a link to the program yesterday but it is still waiting on moderator approval.
 
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randian

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Phoenix, AZ
On the Florida roundup radio show on wlrn dot Org, from Oct 9th, starting at the 15 min mark, in studio was the chair of the committee that passed hb 163, he said he expects the strict scrutiny and probable cause to be stripped from the bill. Other legislators are asking for retention holsters and retention training in exchange for their support.
After all those changes what's the point of the bill? In other words the bill has already been defeated and we're just waiting for the coroner to pronounce it officially dead.
 

OC for ME

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After all those changes what's the point of the bill? In other words the bill has already been defeated and we're just waiting for the coroner to pronounce it officially dead.
Look to MO if you desire the import of a strict scrutiny clause in the laws/state constitution. MO has gone down this road, back in the mid-80s Jeff City enacted a loophole to ban OC as a town desires. Not may use RSMo 21.750.3 but the ones that do are in the major populace hubs. MO is a unlicensed OC state.

Our new strict scrutiny resides in our 2A analog of the MO Constitution. http://moga.mo.gov/MoStatutes/ConstHTML/A010231.html

We now have OC statewide with a endorsement where required due to town using 21.750.3. http://moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/02100007501.html?&me=21.750

If OC with a permit is enacted in FL get a permit and OC. Floridians cannot OC now...except for the fishing/hunting thing.

FL Carry seems to be on top of these efforts and your support of their efforts is critical at this juncture.
 

Grapeshot

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--snipped--

If OC with a permit is enacted in FL get a permit and OC. Floridians cannot OC now...except for the fishing/hunting thing.

FL Carry seems to be on top of these efforts and your support of their efforts is critical at this juncture.
In the strongest terms possible - Yes, it most assuredly is.
 

BB62

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Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Look to MO if you desire the import of a strict scrutiny clause in the laws/state constitution. MO has gone down this road, back in the mid-80s Jeff City enacted a loophole to ban OC as a town desires. Not may use RSMo 21.750.3 but the ones that do are in the major populace hubs. MO is a unlicensed OC state.

Our new strict scrutiny resides in our 2A analog of the MO Constitution. http://moga.mo.gov/MoStatutes/ConstHTML/A010231.html

We now have OC statewide with a endorsement where required due to town using 21.750.3. http://moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/02100007501.html?&me=21.750

If OC with a permit is enacted in FL get a permit and OC. Floridians cannot OC now...except for the fishing/hunting thing.

FL Carry seems to be on top of these efforts and your support of their efforts is critical at this juncture.
NOT to diminish the passage of Amendment 5 and the upgraded 21.750, but Floridians need to learn from MO as well as looking there for inspiration.

Regarding the MO constitutional change, you will find the strongest RKBA statement of any state, on paper. What you will also find is a state Supreme Court that has decimated the new wording that Amendment 5 has brought to Article 1, Section 23 of the MO Constitution.

Take a look here: http://www.mofreedom.org/2015/09/fr...support-of-missourians-right-of-self-defense/
 
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