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Thread: My experience at the N/E Metro sub station

  1. #1
    Regular Member turborich's Avatar
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    My experience at the N/E Metro sub station

    Okay, So I bought a firearm (private party) I know it's legit, but just for peace of mind I figured it wouldn't hurt to have the serial number checked.

    First I called Metro non emergency, the call taker transferred me to a dispatcher who put me on hold while she checked to see what was required to do a serial number check. She informed me that since Metro no longer registers firearms that all I needed to do is bring the serial number into any Metro sub station and they could check it for me. I asked "are you certain?" She replied "yes, this is all that's required, do NOT bring the firearm with you" I was also advised that any patrol officer could also run the numbers for me.

    So I go into the N/E area command and there is a bright pink paper on the entry door which says "Metro is no longer registering firearms, therefore no firearms are allowed in the building" I proceed inside and politely ask to have the serial number checked. The employee states that I would need to bring the firearm with me so they can confiscate it if it's stolen. I let her know that I have already contacted Metro per non emergency and a supervisor advised not to bring the firearm with me. She says no and gets her supervisor. The supervisor who's name is Kim tells me the same thing, except she also tells me that she has other people to help (although the parking lot and building were totally empty) I explain to her that Metro had advised me NOT to bring in the firearm, I also explained to her that the sign on the door says no firearms are allowed in the building. She says that she placed the sign up and would I like her to take it down? I replied no, but how am I to bring a firearm in the building if the sign clearly states not to do so? She said that they don't even have to run a serial number check and that most Metro location won't even do it. She then tells me that I can stay at the window and talk to myself because she's going to do work. I recorded this conversation with Kim.

    I walked outside and called Metro non emergency, I was connected with the N/E area command Lieutenant. He was friendly but was unsure of the procedures. He came out front and spoke with me, A nice guy but he still couldn't check the serial numbers for me do to the confusion. I explained that I'm simply trying to be a law abiding firearms owner and what if someone broke into my home and I grabbed the firearm in question to shoot the intruder with? What if it were stolen? I should be able to call Metro and get a correct answer no matter who I speak with, everyone should be on the same page and know the procedures. I asked if firearms are NOT allowed in the building per the sign on the door then how an I to bring a firearm inside the building? I also told him that the sign is incorrect since it's a public building however that's another issue that I'm not going to get into. Anyways, I was basically told that every sub station is different and since the no registration is so new that not everyone knows what to do. I asked him about the supervisor inside telling me that I could stand at the window and talk to myself because she had work to do? He said it was wrong and he would talk with her. I asked him if he would like me to go back into the building with him and tell her to her face exactly what she said to me? He said it wouldn't be necessary. He also asked if I was one of those guys who buys and sells guns? Do I show up with 10 firearms at a time? I let him know, not at all.

    So there you go folks. I call in advance to obtain correct information from Metro directly. I get an attitude from a supervisor ( I personally think is was because I was not one of her people and I'll leave it at that) I'm told numerous conflicting information (or lack of) In the end I leave without a serial number check. I will NOT return, screw Metro for wasting my time. This all coming from a guy who supports the police...

    Have a good day all.
    Last edited by turborich; 10-12-2015 at 05:23 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wowwie!!!

    Dont do that, Not any of that!

    depending on its age, your gun may still be totally "unregistered",, by anyone, anywhere!!
    if you get someone to check the S/N against the database,, then it will always be on that database!

    dont give that information,, It can Not lead to any good!
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  3. #3
    Regular Member turborich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Dont do that, Not any of that!

    depending on its age, your gun may still be totally "unregistered",, by anyone, anywhere!!
    if you get someone to check the S/N against the database,, then it will always be on that database!

    dont give that information,, It can Not lead to any good!

    Just for peace of mind. This was the only reason. Just wanted to share the screwed up experience and mis information more than anything. Are you sure it would be stored in a data base since registration is no longer? This was NOT to try and register a firearm, I'm completely aware of our laws/rules here in NV. It was only for a S/N check. Anyways, you won't catch me returning to a Metro sub station again. They are to busy helping non existent customers, lol.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Thanks for the confirmation. Sorry you had to experience it firsthand.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by turborich View Post
    Just for peace of mind. .
    Then you shouldnt have bought it, if you didnt have peace of mind. How do you think people around the other parts of the country do things? Its just not a big deal.Why anyone has any faith or support in metro is beyond me.

    Sorry you had to go through this but I wouldnt have expected anything else from the jackboots in vegas. You had zero reason to do it in the first place. And this should be a heads up to other buyers and sellers. Just make the sale and move on.

  6. #6
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    alas, turbo, the only thing the nice LEs can do at this point is validate the firearm isn't reported stolen.

    if it is, then you have lost it and now have to fill out a gaggle of paperwork identifying the seller. did you get a bill of sale from your private party?

    as i am sure you are already aware, FFLs do not have the capability to check the national stolen firearm database.

    al gore's invention yielded this which i do not vouch for what so ever and is provided just cuz it might bring a small peace of mind: http://www.stolenweapon.com/Stolen-G...artsearch.html

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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  7. #7
    Regular Member turborich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    Then you shouldnt have bought it, if you didnt have peace of mind. How do you think people around the other parts of the country do things? Its just not a big deal.Why anyone has any faith or support in metro is beyond me.

    Sorry you had to go through this but I wouldnt have expected anything else from the jackboots in vegas. You had zero reason to do it in the first place. And this should be a heads up to other buyers and sellers. Just make the sale and move on.
    You can buy something from your best friend and it could be stolen. Who knows where something originally came from. Come on, nothing wrong with trying to cover your behind. The guy I purchased from was solid IMO but I always try and have all of my cards in order. I'm just one of those OCD type people who tries to avoid mistakes or mishaps. I don't leave the house without an air compressor, tire plug kit, fire extinguisher, basic hand tools, jumper cables, gallon of water, etc. in any of my vehicles

    I have lost quite a bit of faith in Metro though, not just this incident either. I still don't blame the cops on the street, It's the shot callers who are to blame.

  8. #8
    Regular Member turborich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    alas, turbo, the only thing the nice LEs can do at this point is validate the firearm isn't reported stolen.

    if it is, then you have lost it and now have to fill out a gaggle of paperwork identifying the seller. did you get a bill of sale from your private party?

    as i am sure you are already aware, FFLs do not have the capability to check the national stolen firearm database.

    al gore's invention yielded this which i do not vouch for what so ever and is provided just cuz it might bring a small peace of mind: http://www.stolenweapon.com/Stolen-G...artsearch.html

    ipse
    This site didn't seem to work correctly for me? No way to type anything in it seems.

  9. #9
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turborich View Post
    You can buy something from your best friend and it could be stolen. Who knows where something originally came from. Come on, nothing wrong with trying to cover your behind. The guy I purchased from was solid IMO but I always try and have all of my cards in order. I'm just one of those OCD type people who tries to avoid mistakes or mishaps. I don't leave the house without an air compressor, tire plug kit, fire extinguisher, basic hand tools, jumper cables, gallon of water, etc. in any of my vehicles

    I have lost quite a bit of faith in Metro though, not just this incident either. I still don't blame the cops on the street, It's the shot callers who are to blame.
    really sad thing, an individual comes up to your local gun shop or big box store, TRADES their beloved firearm 'they have had for years' or 'their relative gave them' on a new gun which they proudly walk out of the store with.

    these entities 'trading' firearms have no way of knowing if the firearm they just took in is stolen as there is no readily available mechanism to check it. therefore, you have an altercation, your box store purchased firearm is checked by the nice LEs and low and behold you are now wrapped up trying to prove you didn't steal the item.

    pawns are a bit different, they 'normally', in most communities, have theft procedures in place where a description of items pawned are sent to the nice LEs.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  10. #10
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I only purchase via retail outlets. Traceability is key in the defense of my individual liberty and bank account. It is far easier to get a jury to see your side of the story when you have a retail receipt...and a FFL's backside in a sling.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Well universal background checks would help solve this problem! [sarcasm]
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    What we really need is a nice database of serial number for all firearms bought by all individuals. Tracking from cradle to the grave. That way we can have "peace of mind" that the firearm we have is reputable. What's a little inconvenience in the name of safety, right?

    Yeah, that's the ticket.

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    I believe that there is exactly what you describe Bernie, at least to the extent possible. Notice the latest shooting in Oregon, where the weapons owned by the shooter, (all 13) Or so were declared legally purchased. How does one do that without keeping records???

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    I believe that there is exactly what you describe Bernie, at least to the extent possible. Notice the latest shooting in Oregon, where the weapons owned by the shooter, (all 13) Or so were declared legally purchased. How does one do that without keeping records???
    piece of cake...using firearm(s) SN, local LEs goes to fbi who goes to atf who goes to manuf who goes to distributor who goes to the local FFL who checks their A/D book as well as their 4473 and it shows...walla ~ legally purchased to dead shooter or relative of shooter.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  15. #15
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    A firearm once sold in a private sale is non-traceable. There is no law that regulates such private sale. There are a number of ways a firearm can legally move from one state to another without ever going through a FFL. Bequeath is one way, changing residency another. The firearm may change hands many times and all legal. There is no law that require record keeping of any private transfer, bequeath, gift or sale to another private person. About the only assurance is to attempt to assure yourself that the person taking possession of the firearm is not a felon.

    Your receiving of a firearm and it ending-up being stolen means you could be charged with receiving stolen property. And that being slim if you have never been in trouble. The authorities will usually just confiscate the firearm and you're out the cash.

    The only trace of a firearm is to the last FFL that had possession.

    My question is out of millions of firearm sales, public and private, what has tracing accomplished? Maybe .001% led to a straw purchase. We know the Fast and Furious ATF scandal produced a lot of smoke.

    Now, I am just talking generally. That does not mean some communist state has some fascist law. just say'n.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    piece of cake...using firearm(s) SN, local LEs goes to fbi who goes to atf who goes to manuf who goes to distributor who goes to the local FFL who checks their A/D book as well as their 4473 and it shows...walla ~ legally purchased to dead shooter or relative of shooter.

    ipse
    Not sure what happened, It is possible we are making the same point, but this response left me unsure.

    I asked the question, How does one trace the weapons without keeping records. The response above basically says: very easily.... Check the records.... Am I missing something?

  17. #17
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    Not sure what happened, It is possible we are making the same point, but this response left me unsure.

    I asked the question, How does one trace the weapons without keeping records. The response above basically says: very easily.... Check the records.... Am I missing something?
    Don't, the only records showing what citizen has what firearm by S/N are at the local guy down the street who functions as the community's FFL ~ period!

    ostensibly, even NICS does not maintain buyer w/specific S/N records, but there are some who believe NICS has this data which is why i took the liberty to show the overall flow down from the manufacturer > FFL, which was the reason it was easy as the FFL's records showed they sold the firearms to the alleged dead shooter/relative(s).

    the quagmire begins if those FFL's A/D records showed they were sold to, say me, if you will. FFL gives the addy i used on the 4473 to the nice local LE. so now the nice LEs must track me down, if they can (no am not a vagrant, nomadic - yes, vagrant - no), make direct contact w/me (not will not discuss these types of things over the fone or by email etc.), i will privately discern if i want to discuss the topic since i am under obligation to discuss anything, i will discern if i kept a BoS for the transaction (yes, yes, and yes, i know there is no requirement for such a document ~ but my PERSONAL mandate i follow is a paper trail, w/buyer's name, addy, DL # of any firearm which departs my tender loving care) and depending on the circumstances will provide same to the nice LE. FYI, my use of the term, "depending on the circumstances" means i will not obstruct justice but i sure do not have to actively participate in a nice LE's witchhunt unless under judicial order.

    Don't, your comment of check the records wasn't clear as that function is not done nationally but rather locally where the information is maintained, and in this particular case it was an easy trail to follow and thankfully the trail ended with the alleged shooter/relatives.

    ipse

    addendum: FFL's A/D books & 4473s are not alpha sequenced but by date received or sold and ATF does not allow FFLs to use electonic A/D databases to do a quickie search by say last name or S/N which going to the FFL directly, depending on their sales volume would be a Herculean task.
    Last edited by solus; 10-15-2015 at 01:41 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    To clarify for the out-of-towners, it was only a few short months ago that Nevada's Clark County was forced by the state lawmakers to cease handgun registration. Which means that law-abiding citizens in Clark were also required to register handguns acquired in private transfers. Because of this, we have a culture here of natives who think this sh!t is normal. It will take some time to make it not so.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    To clarify for the out-of-towners, it was only a few short months ago that Nevada's Clark County was forced by the state lawmakers to cease handgun registration. Which means that law-abiding citizens in Clark were also required to register handguns acquired in private transfers. Because of this, we have a culture here of natives who think this sh!t is normal. It will take some time to make it not so.
    thanks MAC for providing this gentleman a qualifier into the local customs...it was only within the last year where NC had such a rogue county which had registration on their books but was only enforced as they saw the need and the county didn't want to rectify the situation on their own. only through state legislation exemption was the situation rectified.

    again, i thank you for your positive consideration extended.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by turborich View Post
    Are you sure it would be stored in a data base since registration is no longer?
    EVERY contact you make with law enforcement, in which your name is given, goes into the database. This will include the gun serial number.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    Don't, the only records showing what citizen has what firearm by S/N are at the local guy down the street who functions as the community's FFL ~ period!


    addendum: FFL's A/D books & 4473s are not alpha sequenced but by date received or sold and ATF does not allow FFLs to use electonic A/D databases to do a quickie search by say last name or S/N which going to the FFL directly, depending on their sales volume would be a Herculean task.
    I... don't know of any rules forbidding FFLs from maintaining a database parallel to their bound books? In fact, it looks like FFLs can use databases to replace bound books - unless this ruling got superseded: https://www.atf.gov/file/11226/download

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmbushBug View Post
    I... don't know of any rules forbidding FFLs from maintaining a database parallel to their bound books? In fact, it looks like FFLs can use databases to replace bound books - unless this ruling got superseded: https://www.atf.gov/file/11226/download
    no, you are correct ambush, ATF ruling 2013-5, as added to the ATF's 2014 reference book, is a viable alternative as long as the FFL explicitly follows the 11 criteria as outlined.

    i believe criteria number 2 is the bugger to meet in electronic based A/D programs~ revision control: ensuring that every change to the individual record is duplicated and changes documented, to include what was changed, who made the change and why the change was made, and then ensuring those changes are maintained with the database for posterity.

    so i thank you for clarifying that point...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 10-16-2015 at 03:06 AM. Reason: was gonna add sumthin but didn't
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  23. #23
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Two retail purchase, the last two and the only way I purchase, were conducted via e-forms. Both 4473 and BC. I have no doubt that Uncle Sam has all the info they need to come and "inspect" these two firearms if they choose to do so.

    Anyone who remains convinced that gun registration does not occur as a result of a retail purchase...

    Ammo purchases are only via cash to minimize exposure to the G-men.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Two retail purchase, the last two and the only way I purchase, were conducted via e-forms. Both 4473 and BC. I have no doubt that Uncle Sam has all the info they need to come and "inspect" these two firearms if they choose to do so.

    Anyone who remains convinced that gun registration does not occur as a result of a retail purchase...

    Ammo purchases are only via cash to minimize exposure to the G-men.
    I disagree, technically.

    Blacks law dictionary 4th edition.
    REGISTRATION. Recording; inserting in an official register; enrollment, as registration of voters; the act of making a list, catalogue, schedule, or register, particularly of an official character, or of making entries therein.
    An FFL purchase on a 4473 is not a registration. All it is, is a chain of custody of a serial # from the manufacturer to the FFL. As I stated above, when the firearm transfers from the FFL, commerce system, to the private sector there is no requirement for record keeping; chain of custody ends. A person that acquired a firearm privately can reenter that firearm into the system if that person sells/transfers the firearm to an FFL. But, the chain of custody has been broken and there is no assurance that the firearm will ever be able to be traced. However, if reported stolen after the chain of custody was broken, but because the stolen firearm was purchased from a FFL it would start a new chain of custody.

    So, technically there is no registration.
    Last edited by color of law; 10-16-2015 at 10:20 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    I disagree, technically.
    ...
    So, technically there is no registration.
    Any (every?) firearm that is retained by the retail purchaser, where the transfer process (4473/BC) is completed via e-form, the gun is now in the system and recorded. Unless of course you have conclusive evidence that the e-4473 is not visible to the government.

    There is a retail purchase, and there is a private purchase. I agree with your private sale scenario, I have my doubts about your retail sale scenario.

    There are a few folks around here, small Mom/Pop shops, who call (land-line even) in the BC and use paper 4473's only, in a binder, like the good ole days.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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