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Thread: Dog's shooting prompts call for conceal-carry training.

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    Dogs call for conceal-carry training.

    The dog, Rango, was outside with his owners, when he was taken off his leash to go inside the house. Instead, Rango ran across the street to an off-duty Milwaukee police officer walking a dog. During the encounter, the man shot Rango, who was taken to an emergency center for animals and survived. The man was not cited or arrested.

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwauk...332256232.html
    Last edited by Nightmare; 10-17-2015 at 11:20 AM.
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    It is always better to keeps ones animals under control.

    What the shootings has to do with CCW holders beats me.

    Not enough info to determine if the shooting was justified. Sounds to me like the loose dog was doing more than just wagging its tale.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 10-12-2015 at 08:45 PM.
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    An off-duty cop shoots a dog and legally armed citizens must be trained. It's an oxymoron.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    It is always better to keeps ones animals under control.

    What the shootings has to do with CCW holders beats me.

    Not enough info to determine if the shooting was justified. Sounds to me like the loose dog was doing more than just wagging its tale.
    Agree - insufficient information available.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    I live near a popular park where some folks choose to walk their dogs off leash. I usually take my little one with me, and always OC. There are "Dogs must stay on leash" signs everywhere. I'd hate to be forced to use my sidearm, but if some moron's dog charges my little one NOT on a leash, what the heck am I supposed to do, hope the dog doesn't attack? There have been a couple reports of dogs biting people in this same park. Sorry, but if you can't follow a leash rule you deserve whatever happens. So disrespectful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    I live near a popular park where some folks choose to walk their dogs off leash. I usually take my little one with me, and always OC. There are "Dogs must stay on leash" signs everywhere. I'd hate to be forced to use my sidearm, but if some moron's dog charges my little one NOT on a leash, what the heck am I supposed to do, hope the dog doesn't attack? There have been a couple reports of dogs biting people in this same park. Sorry, but if you can't follow a leash rule you deserve whatever happens. So disrespectful.
    Please tell me you would not shoot a dog for being too close to your dog. The penalty for not being on a leash should not be execution.

    Just like with people, we need to judge dogs by their actions.

    Dog trotting up with ears erect, not barking or snarling, to play snif-snif is probably okay.

    OTOH - dog charging w/ears laid back, hackles raised, growling etc. might well draw a response.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Please tell me you would not shoot a dog for being too close to your dog. The penalty for not being on a leash should not be execution.

    Just like with people, we need to judge dogs by their actions.

    Dog trotting up with ears erect, not barking or snarling, to play snif-snif is probably okay.

    OTOH - dog charging w/ears laid back, hackles raised, growling etc. might well draw a response.
    Huh!?!

    How on earth did you equate Truth's "charging" with "being too close"?
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Huh!?!

    How on earth did you equate Truth's "charging" with "being too close"?
    Well at what distance is the "charging" dangerous - 30 yds, 20 yds, 10 yds, 10 ft ? When is close too close and is that preemptive action?

    Making a distinction with more description. Don't know why you would object to that, except for your customary sniping.

    I know Truth (he is one of the good guys) and doubt he took offense to what may only need more clarification.

    Rest easy - to my knowledge he has never shot a dog. Too there are problems with using deadly force to protect property, particularly if there were no threat of serious injury to oneself. Lots of things to consider.

    Me? I well might have bite marks on my boots or tears in my pants leg before I took more serious defensive action.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-12-2015 at 10:53 PM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Well at what distance is the "charging" dangerous - 30 yds, 20 yds, 10 yds, 10 ft ? When is close too close and is that preemptive action?

    Making a distinction with more description. Don't know why you would object to that, except for your customary sniping.

    I know Truth (he is one of the good guys) and doubt he took offense to what may only need more clarification.

    Rest easy - to my knowledge he has never shot a dog. Too there are problems with using deadly force to protect property, particularly if there were no threat of serious injury to oneself. Lots of things to consider.

    Me? I well might have bite marks on my boots or tears in my pants leg before I took more serious defensive action.
    I have never shot a dog before. I shot a coyote once, but that wasn't in Virginia. Perhaps some clarification...

    "Little one" in my original post should be read "child." I would only act against a dog with a firearm in defense of myself if the situation were extremely dire. I love dogs! ...except the little yippy ones...haha. Now that you know that the context of my comment was in regards to a dog who is an imminent threat to my child, hopefully you're at ease.

    I should also note that I am good with animals, especially dogs. I'm also very good with very bad dogs. I had a neighbor in Roanoke who had an ex-police K-9 German Shepherd who was extremely aggressive and borderline vicious. The owner had been bitten and the dog had snapped at me before. I believe it was even registered somehow with Roanoke City. I ended up spending a lot of time with that dog and to my knowledge he hasn't bitten anyone since. I like to think I had a seriously positive impact on that dog's life.

    My little one's mother had a vicious rescued pit bull. I got him in line in just 2 days, and we loved him until he passed earlier this year.

    It can be a stressful situation to witness a dog attack. Not fun.
    Last edited by The Truth; 10-12-2015 at 11:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    I have never shot a dog before. I shot a coyote once, but that wasn't in Virginia. Perhaps some clarification...

    "Little one" in my original post should be read "child." I would only act against a dog with a firearm in defense of myself if the situation were extremely dire. I love dogs! ...except the little yippy ones...haha. Now that you know that the context of my comment was in regards to a dog who is an imminent threat to my child, hopefully you're at ease.

    I should also note that I am good with animals, especially dogs. I'm also very good with very bad dogs. I had a neighbor in Roanoke who had an ex-police K-9 German Shepherd who was extremely aggressive and borderline vicious. The owner had been bitten and the dog had snapped at me before. I believe it was even registered somehow with Roanoke City. I ended up spending a lot of time with that dog and to my knowledge he hasn't bitten anyone since. I like to think I had a seriously positive impact on that dog's life.

    My little one's mother had a vicious rescued pit bull. I got him in line in just 2 days, and we loved him until he passed earlier this year.

    It can be a stressful situation to witness a dog attack. Not fun.
    Whew! My bad for presuming you were walking your dog - all the talk about leashes and dogs....you know.

    Walking with your child/little one puts a completely different perspective on things. Thanks for the early clarification.

    BTW - your child's parents are doing a great job.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post

    BTW - your child's parents are doing a great job.
    Thanks, Grapeshot! I'll tell her you said so!
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    I have a lot of dog expedience I never shot one in self defense came close a few times, sprayed several while out running, biking.

    If I was in an area with a lot of loose dogs I would carry spray as a first line of defense it is a lot less complicated to spray a dog than shoot them.

    I also found a walking staff to be a good deterrent dogs seem to under stand sticks.

    Most of the time a good loud sharp command voice will do it.

    If those fail there is the lethal means.
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    Chris Watt adamantly maintained that Rango did not bite the smaller dog.


    However, a Milwaukee police spokesman said reports characterized the incident as an attack and said Rango did bite the other dog. Watt said he has been unable to get a copy of the incident report despite filing an open records request for it.


    The off-duty officer used his personal firearm in the shooting and filed a use-of-force report with the department, the spokesman said.
    Something don't smell right. Inference...cops are circling the wagons and CYA is on. This is a closed incident unless the rotty owner pursues legal actions against the shooter. Also, he said he said it seems except for the witnesses.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    I have a lot of dog expedience........... --snipped--
    While I am reasonably sure you meant "experience," that is an interesting choice of a word.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    What the shootings has to do with CCW holders beats me.
    This was the first thing that jumped in my mind when I read the article. Even if they do add to the CCW training it wouldn't affect off duty LEO's who don't need the license to carry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    While I am reasonably sure you meant "experience," that is an interesting choice of a word.
    I always appreciate the help spell check isn't perfect
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    Maybe it should read .. calls for use of deadly force training.
    Last edited by Liberty-or-Death; 10-14-2015 at 11:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    An off-duty cop shoots a dog and legally armed citizens must be trained. It's an oxymoron.
    You misspoke/ miss wrote. What you meant to say was: under similar circumstances the OC/CC person would have been fined and jailed. I am not sure that is true..

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    LOL It's easy to contradict words that YOU put in another's mouth. I said precisely what I meant and intended to say.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    An off-duty cop shoots a dog and legally armed citizens must be trained. It's an oxymoron.
    It's not an oxymoron, which is a phrase with contradicting concepts, like 'good grief'. Rather, it's a non sequitur, a statement with an illogical conclusion.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nightmare
    An off-duty cop shoots a dog and legally armed citizens must be trained. It's an oxymoron.
    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty-or-Death View Post
    It's not an oxymoron, which is a phrase with contradicting concepts, like 'good grief'. Rather, it's a non sequitur, a statement with an illogical conclusion.
    Whatever use calls it, it hain't right Billie Bob.

    We put on our bibs the same way - both legs at the same time. The hitchin' is quicker that way when Bubba Ray comes home early.

    You know why bibs have 2 shoulder straps? The 2nd one is a spare - only use it if the first one lets ago.

    Please don't shoot my dogs when you come to visit. They ate a deputy yesterday, so they wont be hungrys fer a while.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    oxymoron: noun ox·y·mo·ron \ˌäk-sē-ˈmȯr-ˌän\: a combination of words that have opposite or very different meanings

    non sequitur: noun non se·qui·tur \ˈnän-ˈse-kwə-tər also -ˌtu̇r\: a statement that is not connected in a logical or clear way to anything said before it
    ... Even if they do add to the CCW training it wouldn't affect off duty LEO's who don't need the license to carry. - pkbites
    Separate and unequal. Unfortunate.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Separate and unequal. Unfortunate.
    And life is always fair and equal.

    In Wis. The average LEO goes through hundreds of hours of training so they can have the privilege of carrying with out a separate CCW lic. 60 collage credits plus after the first 520 hours of training a 24 hours of minimum yearly in-service and plus qualifications with their firearms some times many times a year

    If one would want to go through the process get hired, get the training one could have the same privilege.

    A lot of agencies have reserve forces that would allow citizens to do this on a part time basics.

    So if one wants to take advantage of this special privileges one can most likely do so if one so inclined.

    To get a CCW in Wis. is a whole lot easier than that. Hunter safety, military service, any national recognized firearms training program.

    No range time needed. No training needed for open carry. (not that there should be)

    So if it is so wonderful to have the privilege of being a LEO just so one can carry concealed with out having to paid 10 dollars a year to do so.

    Feel free to go through the process.

    It takes me 4hrs, 96 rounds and around 100 dollars each year to maintain my HR218.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 10-16-2015 at 10:20 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Whatever use calls it, it hain't right Billie Bob.

    We put on our bibs the same way - both legs at the same time. The hitchin' is quicker that way when Bubba Ray comes home early.

    You know why bibs have 2 shoulder straps? The 2nd one is a spare - only use it if the first one lets ago.

    Please don't shoot my dogs when you come to visit. They ate a deputy yesterday, so they wont be hungrys fer a while.
    P L E E E SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS someone contact the home and have them adjust Grape's meds...for the love... no i shant get accused of making a religious comment

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    And life is always fair and equal.

    In Wis. The average LEO goes through hundreds of hours of training so they can have the privilege of carrying with out a separate CCW lic. 60 collage credits plus after the first 520 hours of training a 24 hours of minimum yearly in-service and plus qualifications with their firearms some times many times a year

    If one would want to go through the process get hired, get the training one could have the same privilege.

    A lot of agencies have reserve forces that would allow citizens to do this on a part time basics.

    So if one wants to take advantage of this special privileges one can most likely do so if one so inclined.

    To get a CCW in Wis. is a whole lot easier than that. Hunter safety, military service, any national recognized firearms training program.

    No range time needed. No training needed for open carry. (not that there should be)

    So if it is so wonderful to have the privilege of being a LEO just so one can carry concealed with out having to paid 10 dollars a year to do so.

    Feel free to go through the process.

    It takes me 4hrs, 96 rounds and around 100 dollars each year to maintain my HR218.
    Missed the point...OK.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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