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Thread: Open carry at library?

  1. #1
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    Open carry at library?

    So i was thinking of attending some humane society BS about coyotes which im assuming will be peace love and let them eat you fufu pet to voice my own opinion. Since this is being held at a public library i believe (and that is why im asking prior to the event) that i can open carry and they cannot legally remove me for only carrying a pistol.

    has anyone OCed at the library? it will be at the library on warm springs across from the metro station.

    https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...e4&oe=56910F32

    Thanks in advance
    Robert

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    I'm up north, but I OC when I go to my local libraries. I have not had any issues, other than 'looks' from patrons and employees.
    Be aware that with a crowd of people around, more likely you will be noticed and commented on. But you are legal, so they can't exclude you just because you're OCing.

    Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk

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    Another member reports OC in a local library without issue recently, no guarantees.

    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    Interesting grocery trip to Smiths. Saw an elderly gentleman with a MKIII sized pepper spray (or OC to use LE types) on his belt alone.

    ...

    No issues OCing at the Paseo Verde library yesterday. Heard the nice genealogy folks whispering about me when I went away after their little tour-offer 'ambush'.
    Ken

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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    I've only personally been to the Paseo Verde library, which is the Henderson District. The Las Vegas district will be different. A few places have been snippy about it. But now that's SB 175 went into effect, there should be no issue at all. In fact, if they were to arrest you or throw you out, they'd be seriously liable for damages.

    You'll probably get words and whispers and I'd suggest arriving early in case the manager or security guard wants to chat. Print out a copy of SB175. Probably nothing will happen. And if something does happen, your friendly Nevada gun-rights activist-journalist is here to help!
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    If ever asked/told/demanded that you leave or take your gun outside, do so or risk arrest and having to pay for your defense - probably going to win.......eventually.

    Better to go home afterward and go up the food chain of those responsible.

    You do carry a recorder turned on 24/7 when you are out......right?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    ...You do carry a recorder turned on 24/7 when you are out......right?
    I don't. It's easy to complacent in Nevada.

    As for your other post:

    DO NOT USE Grapeshot's link to get legal advice for Nevada!!!

    Grapeshot, we've cautioned you in the past. You really need to stop linking to that armsinfo website. I don't have the hours it would take to point out all of its legal errors. It is many years out of date even when it isn't just wrong.
    Last edited by MAC702; 10-14-2015 at 11:39 PM.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I don't. It's easy to complacent in Nevada.

    As for your other post:

    DO NOT USE Grapeshot's link to get legal advice for Nevada!!!

    --snipped--
    Have deleted the reference/link - will look to avoid such in the future - deferring to locals.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-14-2015 at 11:58 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    This was a email to me in June. After this email they stopped corresponding with me. Next week I am gearing up to test the Rainbow branch again.

    Thank you for contacting us with your concerns. We would certainly like to see you come in and renew your library card and pay your fines so that you may utilize the great resources the Library District has to offer.

    The information from the recent bills is being reviewed by the District’s legal counsel and management team. Currently, library policy bans bringing firearms into our buildings in order to protect the health and safety of our patrons. We are evaluating the changes in the law, which are expected to become effective 10/01/15, and you may not bring your firearm into the building until such evaluation is complete.

    Best Regards,

    Mario Aguilar
    Assistant Library Operations Director
    Las Vegas-Clark County Library District
    www.lvccld.org
    Anniversary Logo_small

  9. #9
    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Have deleted the reference/link - will look to avoid such in the future - deferring to locals.
    NevadaCarry.org -cough -cough- Lol

    As for recording, if I anticipate anything (which never pans out) I turn my voice recorder app on my phone on and stuff it in my pocket. The body cam clipped to my shirt is rather conspicuous and I'd rather just be a dude going about my business.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    This was a email to me in June. After this email they stopped corresponding with me. Next week I am gearing up to test the Rainbow branch again.
    If you're going on a Saturday I can, uh, observe for journalistic purposes...
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Watching this with interest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post



    If you're going on a Saturday I can, uh, observe for journalistic purposes...
    It will be either wed or thurs. Keep you updated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    It will be either wed or thurs. Keep you updated.
    well myself and at least one other from nevada shooters should be today (thursday at 530) due to the anti hunters, so im going to attend the event while Ocing to both make them (the anti hunters) as uncomfortable as possible and to make sure they (the library) are following the law.

    I will also test metros response times since its literally across the street from the warm springs substation.

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    Embedding isn't working here is why they say they have the law.
    http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/...psjjosvek0.jpg

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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 07yzryder View Post
    Embedding isn't working here is why they say they have the law.
    http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/...psjjosvek0.jpg
    That section is 1, overly broad, and 2, the preemption laws utterly destroy any ability they have: "(b) The regulation of the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, carrying, ownership, transportation, storage, registration and licensing of firearms, firearm accessories and ammunition in this State and the ability to define such terms is within the exclusive domain of the Legislature, and any other law, regulation, rule or ordinance to the contrary is null and void." In Clark County, the library districts are supervised by the county commission and the library lords (my term) are appointed by the county too, so preemption definitely does apply. Some jacka-- lackey might throw that out there, but we're not that stupid and I really doubt their counsel would be willing to test that in court, especially facing treble damages.
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    That section is 1, overly broad, and 2, the preemption laws utterly destroy any ability they have: "(b) The regulation of the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, carrying, ownership, transportation, storage, registration and licensing of firearms, firearm accessories and ammunition in this State and the ability to define such terms is within the exclusive domain of the Legislature, and any other law, regulation, rule or ordinance to the contrary is null and void." In Clark County, the library districts are supervised by the county commission and the library lords (my term) are appointed by the county too, so preemption definitely does apply. Some jacka-- lackey might throw that out there, but we're not that stupid and I really doubt their counsel would be willing to test that in court, especially facing treble damages.

    I mentioned that sb 175 removed all pre emption. She said our legal counsel said we are within our rights. Assuming all use the same legal team why have the others oked open carry.

    Also I mentioned that rule is quite broad and in my eyes means you cannot restrict my access. Amanda said otherwise.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by garand_guy View Post
    That section is 1, overly broad, and 2, the preemption laws utterly destroy any ability they have: "(b) The regulation of the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, carrying, ownership, transportation, storage, registration and licensing of firearms, firearm accessories and ammunition in this State and the ability to define such terms is within the exclusive domain of the Legislature, and any other law, regulation, rule or ordinance to the contrary is null and void." In Clark County, the library districts are supervised by the county commission and the library lords (my term) are appointed by the county too, so preemption definitely does apply. Some jacka-- lackey might throw that out there, but we're not that stupid and I really doubt their counsel would be willing to test that in court, especially facing treble damages.
    That is the same law they were standing on as well with me. Soooooo whats our next move? Stand our ground and make them call metro?
    Last edited by Vegassteve; 10-15-2015 at 10:59 PM.

  17. #17
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    I have also sent 2 emails in the last 2 days asking for the name and info of the legal counsel. No response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    That is the same law they were standing on as well with me. Soooooo whats our next move? Stand our ground and make them call metro?
    Well I wrote an email to the sheriff to ask what he perceives the law to be. If we can get metro to say SB 175 rules here I will forward it to them and ask if they really want to call metro whose sheriff has said that your nrs does not allow it. Fingers crossed

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07yzryder View Post
    Well I wrote an email to the sheriff to ask what he perceives the law to be. If we can get metro to say SB 175 rules here I will forward it to them and ask if they really want to call metro whose sheriff has said that your nrs does not allow it. Fingers crossed
    Ummmm I would never ask the cops for legal stand on something. They really dont know or care.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    STOP BRINGING COPS INTO THIS after the incident, People! You are smarter than that!

    1. They don't care.
    2. They themselves are the biggest law-breakers in the state when it comes to this law.
    3. They don't care.
    4. They should have more important things to do and will pretend they do.
    5. They don't care.

    Who knows how to do the paperwork to start the lawsuit? THAT's your next step! What are we talking about? Some paperwork and a filing fee? We'll crowd-source the fee right here.

    We just need someone that knows what papers to file.

    It is clear they are in the wrong. They little paragraph they showed you does not say they can do whatever they see fit. It says they can adopt regulations. This is not something done at a scene they don't like, but an official process that produces a regulation in writing.

    Unfortunately, that might be what ends this. If they don't have an anti-carry regulation in writing, the lawsuit may not work for that (where are all the gun-friendly attorneys?). But there may be a different avenue of approach for unlawful trespassing from a public facility.

    Our "problem" is our politeness. Had you stood your ground and forced their hand, you'd have the cops involved, and a slam dunk for the lawsuit. But, honestly, I don't have the confrontational personality to do stuff like that either.

    Get in touch with Amanda tomorrow. Start with an "apology," and tell her you are officially requesting (under Nevada's open records act) the actual 'adopted regulation' that the book she showed you said they can do.
    Last edited by MAC702; 10-15-2015 at 11:55 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 07yzryder View Post
    She said our legal counsel said we are within our rights.
    Forget what their legal counsel said. This is just an attorney who is paid to give answers the administration wants to hear. If he is so confident, then give them a challenge of a potential lawsuit and bad PR. Trust me, I can help make some noise and would love to lay the pressure on them. If they are so bloody sure of their powers under NRS 379, let them attempt to arrest you or trespass you. Treble freaking damages potential on that suit. I bet an attorney would take that on contingency. If not, we can start a GoFundMe or something similar.

    NRS 379 doesn't give them the power to make any rule or law they want. What if they decided that a reasonable restriction was kicking out blacks, banning the Bible, or making it against the rule to come in using an oxygen bottle because it might look like a bomb?

    Time to fight this crap tooth and nail. Don't give them a bloody inch. Rip their infringements from them and walk right into the heart of liberalism. I'm a freaking published author, English major, and uber-conservative gun owner. I'm entitled to the library too (and probably more than pervs who need a computer or kids being baby-sat by Uncle Sam after school).

    As for the cops, forget them too. Mac was dead on.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Who knows how to do the paperwork to start the lawsuit? THAT's your next step! What are we talking about? Some paperwork and a filing fee? We'll crowd-source the fee right here.

    We just need someone that knows what papers to file.
    We can actually figure that out ourselves, but like you said over beer, WHERE ARE THE FREAKIN' ATTORNEYS? I donate my time and money for the Second Amendment.

    The real obstacle is pursuing the case. When I was the plastic fuzz, we had this homeless guy who caused all sorts of parking problems with abandoned vehicles. When we towed them, they went to appeals court. He lost, but the dude basically had no time on his hands and could pester the legal system with his non-sense. So that's it; time. I'd be down for paperwork and research, but I have a full-time job during the day and my employer is a jealous mistress.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    STOP BRINGING COPS INTO THIS after the incident, People! You are smarter than that!

    1. They don't care.
    2. They themselves are the biggest law-breakers in the state when it comes to this law.
    3. They don't care.
    4. They should have more important things to do and will pretend they do.
    5. They don't care.

    Who knows how to do the paperwork to start the lawsuit? THAT's your next step! What are we talking about? Some paperwork and a filing fee? We'll crowd-source the fee right here.

    We just need someone that knows what papers to file.

    It is clear they are in the wrong. They little paragraph they showed you does not say they can do whatever they see fit. It says they can adopt regulations. This is not something done at a scene they don't like, but an official process that produces a regulation in writing.

    Unfortunately, that might be what ends this. If they don't have an anti-carry regulation in writing, the lawsuit may not work for that (where are all the gun-friendly attorneys?). But there may be a different avenue of approach for unlawful trespassing from a public facility.

    Our "problem" is our politeness. Had you stood your ground and forced their hand, you'd have the cops involved, and a slam dunk for the lawsuit. But, honestly, I don't have the confrontational personality to do stuff like that either.

    Get in touch with Amanda tomorrow. Start with an "apology," and tell her you are officially requesting (under Nevada's open records act) the actual 'adopted regulation' that the book she showed you said they can do.
    I'll shoot Ben a pm in the morning. He can probably at least get us pointed to a lawyer who can file. My issue isn't my personality, trespass isn't a major blemish to me, it's more I don't have the money to fight in court.

    I understand not getting Leo involved as I'm sure I will get a blanket statement that beats around the fact that it's possible that I'm right. Sometimes they do get it right though. And I will gladly print out the email and let her call metro and show them the letter from her boss and get the call number for the incident which will only help the suit.

  24. #24
    Regular Member garand_guy's Avatar
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    The Las Vegas district library has no grounds against open carry under it's own rules!

    Rules of Conduct

    3. Firearms are prohibited as outlined in NRS 202.3673.
    NRS 202.3673  Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.

    It's only concealed firearms that are illegal under their policies by their own definition!

    I'll stop posting for a bit now.
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  25. #25
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    I am unsure of the foundation for a lawsuit, but having sued for civil rights violations in the past, I could and would be happy to help set it up. You want to decide who is the target of your suit. (the main offender) is it the Library, who calls the cops, or the cops who will take you to jail. The reason this is important, is because Not 0ne of the immoral parasites who gets a check from the state, will own their actions. Getting the "hot potato" to land in the lap of the desired defendant is tricky, and must be well thought out in advance.

    Is there Harm? was someone detained, handcuffed? Or had their firearm confiscated? I would like to read what events initiated talk of a suit.

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