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Open carry at library?

garand_guy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
493
Location
Nevada
She said our legal counsel said we are within our rights.

Forget what their legal counsel said. This is just an attorney who is paid to give answers the administration wants to hear. If he is so confident, then give them a challenge of a potential lawsuit and bad PR. Trust me, I can help make some noise and would love to lay the pressure on them. If they are so bloody sure of their powers under NRS 379, let them attempt to arrest you or trespass you. Treble freaking damages potential on that suit. I bet an attorney would take that on contingency. If not, we can start a GoFundMe or something similar.

NRS 379 doesn't give them the power to make any rule or law they want. What if they decided that a reasonable restriction was kicking out blacks, banning the Bible, or making it against the rule to come in using an oxygen bottle because it might look like a bomb?

Time to fight this crap tooth and nail. Don't give them a bloody inch. Rip their infringements from them and walk right into the heart of liberalism. I'm a freaking published author, English major, and uber-conservative gun owner. I'm entitled to the library too (and probably more than pervs who need a computer or kids being baby-sat by Uncle Sam after school).

As for the cops, forget them too. Mac was dead on.
 

garand_guy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
493
Location
Nevada
Who knows how to do the paperwork to start the lawsuit? THAT's your next step! What are we talking about? Some paperwork and a filing fee? We'll crowd-source the fee right here.

We just need someone that knows what papers to file.

We can actually figure that out ourselves, but like you said over beer, WHERE ARE THE FREAKIN' ATTORNEYS? I donate my time and money for the Second Amendment.

The real obstacle is pursuing the case. When I was the plastic fuzz, we had this homeless guy who caused all sorts of parking problems with abandoned vehicles. When we towed them, they went to appeals court. He lost, but the dude basically had no time on his hands and could pester the legal system with his non-sense. So that's it; time. I'd be down for paperwork and research, but I have a full-time job during the day and my employer is a jealous mistress.
 

07yzryder

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
32
Location
LV
STOP BRINGING COPS INTO THIS after the incident, People! You are smarter than that!

1. They don't care.
2. They themselves are the biggest law-breakers in the state when it comes to this law.
3. They don't care.
4. They should have more important things to do and will pretend they do.
5. They don't care.

Who knows how to do the paperwork to start the lawsuit? THAT's your next step! What are we talking about? Some paperwork and a filing fee? We'll crowd-source the fee right here.

We just need someone that knows what papers to file.

It is clear they are in the wrong. They little paragraph they showed you does not say they can do whatever they see fit. It says they can adopt regulations. This is not something done at a scene they don't like, but an official process that produces a regulation in writing.

Unfortunately, that might be what ends this. If they don't have an anti-carry regulation in writing, the lawsuit may not work for that (where are all the gun-friendly attorneys?). But there may be a different avenue of approach for unlawful trespassing from a public facility.

Our "problem" is our politeness. Had you stood your ground and forced their hand, you'd have the cops involved, and a slam dunk for the lawsuit. But, honestly, I don't have the confrontational personality to do stuff like that either.

Get in touch with Amanda tomorrow. Start with an "apology," and tell her you are officially requesting (under Nevada's open records act) the actual 'adopted regulation' that the book she showed you said they can do.

I'll shoot Ben a pm in the morning. He can probably at least get us pointed to a lawyer who can file. My issue isn't my personality, trespass isn't a major blemish to me, it's more I don't have the money to fight in court.

I understand not getting Leo involved as I'm sure I will get a blanket statement that beats around the fact that it's possible that I'm right. Sometimes they do get it right though. And I will gladly print out the email and let her call metro and show them the letter from her boss and get the call number for the incident which will only help the suit.
 

garand_guy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
493
Location
Nevada
The Las Vegas district library has no grounds against open carry under it's own rules!

Rules of Conduct

3. Firearms are prohibited as outlined in NRS 202.3673.

NRS 202.3673  Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.

It's only concealed firearms that are illegal under their policies by their own definition!

I'll stop posting for a bit now.
 

DON`T TREAD ON ME

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
1,231
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
I am unsure of the foundation for a lawsuit, but having sued for civil rights violations in the past, I could and would be happy to help set it up. You want to decide who is the target of your suit. (the main offender) is it the Library, who calls the cops, or the cops who will take you to jail. The reason this is important, is because Not 0ne of the immoral parasites who gets a check from the state, will own their actions. Getting the "hot potato" to land in the lap of the desired defendant is tricky, and must be well thought out in advance.

Is there Harm? was someone detained, handcuffed? Or had their firearm confiscated? I would like to read what events initiated talk of a suit.
 

Joe LeFors

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
21
Location
LV
07yzryder and NASA,
It was good meeting the both of you at the Library last night. I just joined this forum last night after you told me about it. If I had been allowed to post on the other forum. I would have told you I was going to be there. With a little more organization between us I would have been happy to record video of what went down.
Again pleasure meeting the both of you.

JL
 
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BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
The Las Vegas district library has no grounds against open carry under it's own rules!...
Pet peeve:

it's = it is
its = possessive form of "it"

If you or anyone else is going to undertake some activism wherein there is a reasonable expectation of arrest, I suggest you take the path of giving the library formal notice. Although I'm not an attorney, I have done so multiple times.

To the extent that you feel it necessary/worthwhile, study the following thread, which has turned into a legal battle with the St. Louis Zoo: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...TRO-filing-status-legal-financial-help-needed
 

Vegassteve

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
1,763
Location
Las Vegas NV, ,
Here is the contact info for the library legal person.


Thank you for contacting us with your request. Below you will find the contact information for the legal counsel of the Las Vegas-Clark County Library District:



Gerald M Welt

703 S Eighth St.

Las Vegas, NV 89101

702-382-2030

702-684-5157(fax)

gmwesq@weltlaw.com

http://www.LVSSD.com



Please let me know if would like assistance with anything else.



Best Regards,



Mario Aguilar

Assistant Library Operations Director

Las Vegas-Clark County Library District
 

garand_guy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
493
Location
Nevada
Someone on Facebook posted an incident at the Flamingo/Jones library. According to him, no sign is posted per the NRS at the entrance. Staff and the armed security guard came up. He was shown an email from the director stating firearms were not permitted. Security asked him to conceal his firearm (which would be illegal). He was ultimately asked not to come back armed. He's going to continue pressing the details. I'm trying to get an interview for the blog.

I think it's time we go in together and see what happens. Preferably on a Saturday with several people and cameras. This needs a dedicated effort to stop it, bad PR for them, and possibly a lawsuit. Heck, I'm even thinking of incorporating Nevada Carry as a non-profit to raise legal defense fees.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Someone on Facebook posted an incident at the Flamingo/Jones library. According to him, no sign is posted per the NRS at the entrance. Staff and the armed security guard came up. He was shown an email from the director stating firearms were not permitted. Security asked him to conceal his firearm (which would be illegal). He was ultimately asked not to come back armed. He's going to continue pressing the details. I'm trying to get an interview for the blog.

I think it's time we go in together and see what happens. Preferably on a Saturday with several people and cameras. This needs a dedicated effort to stop it, bad PR for them, and possibly a lawsuit. Heck, I'm even thinking of incorporating Nevada Carry as a non-profit to raise legal defense fees.
To repeat: If you or anyone else is going to undertake some activism wherein there is a reasonable expectation of arrest, I suggest you take the path of giving the library formal notice.
 

garand_guy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
493
Location
Nevada
To repeat: If you or anyone else is going to undertake some activism wherein there is a reasonable expectation of arrest, I suggest you take the path of giving the library formal notice.

I'm on it. I did email them (and got a reply) in June when state pre-emption passed, but would you recommend something more recent?
 

Joe LeFors

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
21
Location
LV
Someone on Facebook posted an incident at the Flamingo/Jones library. According to him, no sign is posted per the NRS at the entrance. Staff and the armed security guard came up. He was shown an email from the director stating firearms were not permitted. Security asked him to conceal his firearm (which would be illegal). He was ultimately asked not to come back armed. He's going to continue pressing the details. I'm trying to get an interview for the blog.

I think it's time we go in together and see what happens. Preferably on a Saturday with several people and cameras. This needs a dedicated effort to stop it, bad PR for them, and possibly a lawsuit. Heck, I'm even thinking of incorporating Nevada Carry as a non-profit to raise legal defense fees.

Great idea, the only thing I disagree with is it being done on a Saturday. I feel it would have more effect if it were done on a weekday during BUSINESS hours when branch managers are present, you know the ones with REAL Authority

Just a thought.
 

DON`T TREAD ON ME

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
1,231
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Having done a fair amount of this type of activism, I have to disagree with giving a heads up. Would you call the DMV and let them know that you are going to lawfully license your car? Notifying the library lets them know that you expect a confrontation, and you will be more likely to have one. By notifying, you are admitting knowledge to the fact that there may be other interpretations besides the black and white letter of the law.

I also disagree with the idea that you have to go straight to the top with administration. Trust me, the brass gets involved, nothing like a phone call or two on the weekend to shake up some ones otherwise cushy job. We learned with the DMV that it is the "worker bees" who sometimes do not get informed. If you go to the library on the weekend, make sure the weekend crew is up to speed on the laws.

It appears these suggestions about how to deal with the library folks, are an attempt to coddle the folks who will not only infringe upon our rights, but do so utilizing force (cops) My best experiences have been to go about my regular business, If someone violates my rights, they did it 100% on their own.

I would enjoy going to the library with a crew, as I want to change my voter registration card. I will not participate if someone gives notice however, as it will leave me without a good case if I were arrested etc. If I file a lawsuit for violating my civil rights, the defense attorney will hammer home the fact that I knew what I was doing was wrong, as I notified the library. He will hammer home the idea that I just wanted a lawsuit. Lawsuits are a lot of work, and they need to be thought out in advance, yet appear that they derived from a spontaneous action.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Having done a fair amount of this type of activism, I have to disagree with giving a heads up. Would you call the DMV and let them know that you are going to lawfully license your car? Notifying the library lets them know that you expect a confrontation, and you will be more likely to have one. By notifying, you are admitting knowledge to the fact that there may be other interpretations besides the black and white letter of the law...
IF the library has stated that carrying there is illegal, one would be foolish not to give notice to the authorities - for a whole host of reasons. However, I'm not going to quibble further, as my record speaks for itself.

The bottom line is that those involved have to make their own choice.
 

BB62

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Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I'm on it. I did email them (and got a reply) in June when state pre-emption passed, but would you recommend something more recent?
Yes, along the lines of what I referenced a few posts ago, where I provided a link to my communications with the authorities and the zoo in St. Louis. Check your PMs.

The bottom line is this: while notice is not an impermeable shield, done properly and with a strong legal foundation, it tips the balance in your favor if the authorities foolishly decide to take action against you. Alternately, it also may very well cause the authorities to leave you alone.

With things tipped in your favor or not, are you willing and able (in time and treasure) to go along for the ride that may result from charges being filed/you being ticketed/you being arrested for entering the library armed and refusing to leave if asked? You need to be.

Either way, you can file a civil rights lawsuit and possibly get something for your troubles, IF a judge/jury considers you to have been damaged and IF there's money in your pocket after paying for legal representation and the various expenses that go with it. A civil rights lawsuit is a long, hard road.

Alternately, you could ask a judge for a declaratory judgement (or the criminal law equivalent), avoiding possible arrest and a civil rights lawsuit.
 
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28kfps

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
1,534
Location
Pointy end and slightly to the left
To repeat: If you or anyone else is going to undertake some activism wherein there is a reasonable expectation of arrest, I suggest you take the path of giving the library formal notice.
As a rule for the past several years formal notice often back fires. Gives time to circle the wagons and build up a intimidating push back force.
 

The Big Guy

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Waco, TX
It seems to me that giving them notice puts you in a position where you could be trespassed. The trespass law clearly says that you are guilty of trespass if you are there with the intent to vex or annoy. I think they could make a strong case for it having been given notice of your intent. It is further my opinion that as long as you are in a public building with the intent to conduct lawful business, trespass will not stand up. At that point the recent change in NV law kicks in and they have no justifiable ground to stand on.

Just my thinking out loud.

TBG
 

Vegassteve

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
1,763
Location
Las Vegas NV, ,
3 things.

1. Where is the Nevada Firearms Coalition? They said for years they couldnt help us because we did not have preemption with teeth. Now we do. So where are they? Im not a member but surely someone is.

2. The library is openly violating the law. Its simple really.

3. We have plenty of good minds here without all these yahoos from other states chiming in.


As I said I am free to go on a Wed Thurs. I have business that I should do there. I would love to have a journalist and one or two of the folks here who know the law and speak much more clearly than I do to help out.
 
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