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Thread: regarding CHP fees, et al.

  1. #1
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    regarding CHP fees, et al.

    Any permit, licensing, or training hurdles with attached costs, set up by the government between a person and their right to keep and bear arms, should be born by the government, not the individual seeking to exercise their right.

    If society thinks it's in society's interest to have their govt erect these costly barriers, then society as a whole should bear those costs for that service they want provided to them - cuz it's certainly not a service that benefits the individual keeper/bearer, and erecting those hurdles before them are otherwise infringements.

    You demand records or training? You pay for it. It certainly doesn't benefit me for the local courthouse to keep my record on file, or to have local, state, and federal authorities prying into my records. If society/courts say that I can have my gun(s), and are not restricting me from them, only that these other steps must be done for society's sake, then let society pay for what they want. Otherwise they are barriers to me.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-29-2015 at 08:46 PM. Reason: Delete emoticon
    *I am not a lawyer. Nothing from me shall be construed as a magic cloak of legal advice. It's ultimately your tucas that's on the line. Keep examining the law anyway. The gov't, made up of people like us, is supposed to work for us, not against us. Let's find, correct, and avoid the wrongs before they're actively used against us, or we become innocently trapped by them. We're to be the masters. Let's vigilantly keep tabs on our servants who seek to rule us.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    This is spot on, and the fact that it is not true today is evidence that demonstrates how far we have allowed this "right" to become a "privilege."

    TFred

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    But concealed carry in Virginia is not a right; it is a crime.

    A mechanism has been established to provide an exception to the crime of carrying a concealed handgun. There are qualifications that must be met for being granted that exception. As a grant, leave, or let from committing the crime the state may charge an administrative fee.

    I hate it when I sound like I am defending the state against the citizens when reminding people of the boundaries of the right to keep and bear arms. I'm not. I'm pointing out what should be the obvious.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  5. #5
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    But concealed carry in Virginia is not a right; it is a crime.

    A mechanism has been established to provide an exception to the crime of carrying a concealed handgun. There are qualifications that must be met for being granted that exception. As a grant, leave, or let from committing the crime the state may charge an administrative fee.

    I hate it when I sound like I am defending the state against the citizens when reminding people of the boundaries of the right to keep and bear arms. I'm not. I'm pointing out what should be the obvious.

    stay safe.
    btw skid, thanks for that perspective...to be candid, that specific concept truly escaped my consciousness...

    now i understood the perspective if someone uses their firearm/weapon in their defence and someone dies, you would be charged w/murder/homicide/etc and the SD exceptions were put into place to be used if the nice DA/LEs wish to grant you those exceptions to exonerate from your 'crime'.

    but didn't think about the CC perspective...

    appreciate...needed something to contemplate for the day.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Skids right and it's not the only instance in va. The trespassing laws in Va are forgiven with three words. Looking for my dogs.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Skids right and it's not the only instance in va. The trespassing laws in Va are forgiven with three words. Looking for my dogs.
    uh, math isn't your strong suit is it peter..

    look'g (1)

    for (2)

    my (3)

    dogs (4)

    yepper here in NC that phrase still equals F O U R words!! darn good primary education received if i do say so myself!!

    needed something to continue the chuckle ...thanks peter...am glad you're feeling a bit better..

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 10-19-2015 at 08:35 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    uh, math isn't your strong suit is it peter..

    look'g (1)

    for (2)

    my (3)

    dogs (4)

    yepper here in NC that phrase still equals F O U R words!! darn good primary education received if i do say so myself!!

    needed something to continue the chuckle ...thanks peter...am glad you're feeling a bit better..

    ipse
    What can I say..... other than. Duh!
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    Last edited by peter nap; 10-19-2015 at 09:16 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    uh, math isn't your strong suit is it peter..

    look'g (1)

    for (2)

    my (3)

    dogs (4)

    yepper here in NC that phrase still equals F O U R words!! darn good primary education received if i do say so myself!!

    needed something to continue the chuckle ...thanks peter...am glad you're feeling a bit better..

    ipse
    Maybe in NC...here in SC it is three words:

    1)Lookinfer 2)ma 3)dawgs!

    YMMV
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Maybe in NC...here in SC it is three words:

    1)Lookinfer 2)ma 3)dawgs!

    YMMV
    In the better parts of Virginia it's really two words - seen madawgs?

    I'm still trying to figure out why it's called dog hunting if nobody shoots them. Unless you do that it's just hide and go seek in somebody else's woods.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    btw skid, thanks for that perspective...to be candid, that specific concept truly escaped my consciousness...

    now i understood the perspective if someone uses their firearm/weapon in their defence and someone dies, you would be charged w/murder/homicide/etc and the SD exceptions were put into place to be used if the nice DA/LEs wish to grant you those exceptions to exonerate from your 'crime'.

    but didn't think about the CC perspective...

    appreciate...needed something to contemplate for the day.

    ipse
    In order to claim excusable or justified homicide you have to first plead guilty to killing someone. The DAs/LEs do not grant you those exceptions - mostly they work to prove you killing was not excusable/justified.

    It is the jury that determines 1) that you are in fact guilty of killing somebody and then 2) if your doing so was excusable/justified. Not guilty because of excuse/not guilty because of justification. Thus not "exonerated" but acquitted.

    None of that "I didn't mean to" or "I just wanted to scare him" stuff. Straight up "Yes, I shot him. When I shot him I meant to kill him." (DRT or later on does not matter - just that you intended for him to become other than among the living.)

    Now you should have enough to keep you cogitating for the whole week.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  12. #12
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    In order to claim excusable or justified homicide you have to first plead guilty to killing someone. The DAs/LEs do not grant you those exceptions - mostly they work to prove you killing was not excusable/justified.
    It is the jury that determines 1) that you are in fact guilty of killing somebody and then 2) if your doing so was excusable/justified. Not guilty because of excuse/not guilty because of justification. Thus not "exonerated" but acquitted.
    None of that "I didn't mean to" or "I just wanted to scare him" stuff. Straight up "Yes, I shot him. When I shot him I meant to kill him." (DRT or later on does not matter - just that you intended for him to become other than among the living.)
    Now you should have enough to keep you cogitating for the whole week.

    stay safe.
    thanks the subject matter mental churn ~ maybe later this week unless another squirrel surfaces by then but today and prob tomorrow's regurgitation is already booked to contemplate 42, now where was I hummm succeeds 41 and precedes 43....

    ttfn

    916195
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    But concealed carry in Virginia is not a right; it is a crime.
    Well THERE'S the problem!
    It shouldn't be a crime, because by nature, common sense, and the Supreme law of the land, it's a right; and criminalizing a legitimate form of bearing is an infringement ~ nullifying the subsequent "justified" hoops and hurdles thereafter that the would-be concealed-carrier must surmount through performance, payment, or time.

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    A mechanism has been established to provide an exception to the crime of carrying a concealed handgun. There are qualifications that must be met for being granted that exception. As a grant, leave, or let from committing the crime the state may charge an administrative fee.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I hate it when I sound like I am defending the state against the citizens when reminding people of the boundaries of the right to keep and bear arms.
    me too!

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I'm not. I'm pointing out what should be the obvious.
    You fell into their obedient hypnotic trance and defended their justification built upon their false premise!

    Interesting point of view / well spun, though.
    Advance to Kool-Aid Server level from Kool-Aid Drinker ;-)
    Last edited by ChristCrusader; 10-20-2015 at 06:43 PM.
    *I am not a lawyer. Nothing from me shall be construed as a magic cloak of legal advice. It's ultimately your tucas that's on the line. Keep examining the law anyway. The gov't, made up of people like us, is supposed to work for us, not against us. Let's find, correct, and avoid the wrongs before they're actively used against us, or we become innocently trapped by them. We're to be the masters. Let's vigilantly keep tabs on our servants who seek to rule us.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    You live in your make-believe wish-it-were-true world and I'll live in reality while working to make changes to bring about some of what are currently just fantasies.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  15. #15
    Regular Member Liberty-or-Death's Avatar
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    If they are legal tools to possess, how are they illegal to carry on one's person? Whether openly viewable or hidden from view, how is it anyone's business but mine?

    Why do I need special dispensation to do what is natural, i.e.: be safe and secure in my person, papers, and effects when away from home?

    This is a typical legislative non sequitur.
    Be active.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty-or-Death View Post
    If they are legal tools to possess, how are they illegal to carry on one's person? Whether openly viewable or hidden from view, how is it anyone's business but mine?

    Why do I need special dispensation to do what is natural, i.e.: be safe and secure in my person, papers, and effects when away from home?

    This is a typical legislative non sequitur.
    No, because Open Carry is the legal default.

    And it's not that they are illegal to carry on your person - it is that it is illegal to carry or concealed.

    It's the state's business because, among other things, it provides them with a way to make a buck.

    If you want the full rundown on why CC is illegal I'll give it to you the next time we sit down together - it takes about 2 hours.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  17. #17
    Regular Member Liberty-or-Death's Avatar
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    For the liberty-centric, what's in my pockets is my concern, no one else's, regardless what this or that locale decides is not a matter of liberty.
    Be active.

  18. #18
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty-or-Death View Post
    For the liberty-centric, what's in my pockets is my concern, no one else's, regardless what this or that locale decides is not a matter of liberty.
    Good luck selling that to the judge if you get busted.

  19. #19
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    uh, math isn't your strong suit is it peter..

    look'g (1)

    for (2)

    my (3)

    dogs (4)

    yepper here in NC that phrase still equals F O U R words!! darn good primary education received if i do say so myself!!

    needed something to continue the chuckle ...thanks peter...am glad you're feeling a bit better..

    ipse
    Yet again, reverse polish notation.

    But, prepositions are a nullity. Answer = 3.....

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty-or-Death View Post
    For the liberty-centric, what's in my pockets is my concern, no one else's, regardless what this or that locale decides is not a matter of liberty.
    ... and don't forget it's not just deep concealment that's illegal, but wearing an outer garment - even if temporarily - over top of an otherwise openly carried firearm, be it ever so briefly or to match environmental conditions.
    *I am not a lawyer. Nothing from me shall be construed as a magic cloak of legal advice. It's ultimately your tucas that's on the line. Keep examining the law anyway. The gov't, made up of people like us, is supposed to work for us, not against us. Let's find, correct, and avoid the wrongs before they're actively used against us, or we become innocently trapped by them. We're to be the masters. Let's vigilantly keep tabs on our servants who seek to rule us.

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    No, because Open Carry is the legal default.

    And it's not that they are illegal to carry on your person - it is that it is illegal to carry or concealed.

    It's the state's business because, among other things, it provides them with a way to make a buck.

    If you want the full rundown on why CC is illegal I'll give it to you the next time we sit down together - it takes about 2 hours.

    stay safe.
    That must be the Cliff notes version.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    That must be the Cliff notes version.
    More like the Reader's Digest Condensed Version.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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